Double-Decker routes that don’t need them

[DE20106]

Sept 5, 2019 13:03:14 GMT george said:

I know this is an old thread but just been on the 23 from Hammersmith to Hyde Park Corner and the whole journey I was the only person upstairs. The other ones that went past had no more than 5 people upstairs but maybe the route gets very crowded between Marble Arch and Westbourne park.

Sept 5, 2019 15:27:13 GMT LK65EBO said:

1. 116
2. Its not that busy at much of the route with hardly anyone upstairs
3. Enviro 200 MMCs 11.5m from the H37
4. If the 235 was at London United I would reallocate some of the VHs to that route with a small diversion otherwise they would go to the H37

I had a very different observation to you re the 23 on Monday. Although I rode it at about 4:30, which is getting busy at that time. I was on a Marble Arch bound 23, and my bus had a person in nearly every row of seats upstairs. Hammersmith bound I saw two FULLY seated 23’s and a lot more very well loaded ones, and a few quiet ones. It looks like you went at an off-peak time when yes it appears to be quiter, as with most routes. But I’d like to reassure you that that part of the 23 certainly isn’t dead anymore, only at certain, less busy times.

With regards to the 116, I’ve seen some busy ones. Another thing is that it’s usage has now jumped significantly since it was single deck, so although buses may not be busy all the time one could view its decking as necessary as it’s increased growth. Also some food for thought, the 116’s PVR is just seven and the route carried as near as makes no difference 2 million people last year.

If just seven single deck vehicles were carrying two million passengers a year trust me it’s very likely loadings would be very strained. Look at the 203, it has an identical PVR and near identical usage figures. And guess what, it’s rammed to the rafters nearly all the time. One big difference between the 203 and 116 however is that they’re 10 and 6 miles long respectively. Try taking the same amount of people that use a 10 mile route, uses full size single deckers and still manages to be packed to the brim and then put those people onto a route just over half its length AND onto smaller single deckers (like what the 116 had before 2015). Trust me, taking that into consideration it needs deckers I don’t think TfL would have decked the route in 2015 if it wasn’t struggling with the buses it had (sssssshhhhh about the D8 )

[6HP502C]

Sept 5, 2019 23:28:37 GMT DE20106 said:

I had a very different observation to you re the 23 on Monday. Although I rode it at about 4:30, which is getting busy at that time. I was on a Marble Arch bound 23, and my bus had a person in nearly every row of seats upstairs. Hammersmith bound I saw two FULLY seated 23’s and a lot more very well loaded ones, and a few quiet ones. It looks like you went at an off-peak time when yes it appears to be quiter, as with most routes. But I’d like to reassure you that that part of the 23 certainly isn’t dead anymore, only at certain, less busy times.

With regards to the 116, I’ve seen some busy ones. Another thing is that it’s usage has now jumped significantly since it was single deck, so although buses may not be busy all the time one could view its decking as necessary as it’s increased growth. Also some food for thought, the 116’s PVR is just seven and the route carried as near as makes no difference 2 million people last year.

If just seven single deck vehicles were carrying two million passengers a year trust me it’s very likely loadings would be very strained. Look at the 203, it has an identical PVR and near identical usage figures. And guess what, it’s rammed to the rafters nearly all the time. One big difference between the 203 and 116 however is that they’re 10 and 6 miles long respectively. Try taking the same amount of people that use a 10 mile route, uses full size single deckers and still manages to be packed to the brim and then put those people onto a route just over half its length AND onto smaller single deckers (like what the 116 had before 2015). Trust me, taking that into consideration it needs deckers I don’t think TfL would have decked the route in 2015 if it wasn’t struggling with the buses it had (sssssshhhhh about the D8 )

The 116 has its moments and I am sure the people who live in the Hounslow Heath area welcome the capacity given the 117 and 235 are very busy.

[vjaska]

Sept 5, 2019 23:28:37 GMT DE20106 said:

Sept 5, 2019 13:03:14 GMT george said:

I know this is an old thread but just been on the 23 from Hammersmith to Hyde Park Corner and the whole journey I was the only person upstairs. The other ones that went past had no more than 5 people upstairs but maybe the route gets very crowded between Marble Arch and Westbourne park.

Sept 5, 2019 15:27:13 GMT LK65EBO said:

1. 116
2. Its not that busy at much of the route with hardly anyone upstairs
3. Enviro 200 MMCs 11.5m from the H37
4. If the 235 was at London United I would reallocate some of the VHs to that route with a small diversion otherwise they would go to the H37

I had a very different observation to you re the 23 on Monday. Although I rode it at about 4:30, which is getting busy at that time. I was on a Marble Arch bound 23, and my bus had a person in nearly every row of seats upstairs. Hammersmith bound I saw two FULLY seated 23’s and a lot more very well loaded ones, and a few quiet ones. It looks like you went at an off-peak time when yes it appears to be quiter, as with most routes. But I’d like to reassure you that that part of the 23 certainly isn’t dead anymore, only at certain, less busy times.

With regards to the 116, I’ve seen some busy ones. Another thing is that it’s usage has now jumped significantly since it was single deck, so although buses may not be busy all the time one could view its decking as necessary as it’s increased growth. Also some food for thought, the 116’s PVR is just seven and the route carried as near as makes no difference 2 million people last year.

If just seven single deck vehicles were carrying two million passengers a year trust me it’s very likely loadings would be very strained. Look at the 203, it has an identical PVR and near identical usage figures. And guess what, it’s rammed to the rafters nearly all the time. One big difference between the 203 and 116 however is that they’re 10 and 6 miles long respectively. Try taking the same amount of people that use a 10 mile route, uses full size single deckers and still manages to be packed to the brim and then put those people onto a route just over half its length AND onto smaller single deckers (like what the 116 had before 2015). Trust me, taking that into consideration it needs deckers I don’t think TfL would have decked the route in 2015 if it wasn’t struggling with the buses it had (sssssshhhhh about the D8 )

The D8's loadings have increased over the last two years for whatever reason - certainly under Tower Transit, the loadings I've seen when I've been in the area have been far more than they used to be so I personally wouldn't include that one anymore.

[Green Kitten]

Leave my D8 alone

[george]

Sept 5, 2019 23:28:37 GMT DE20106 said:

Sept 5, 2019 13:03:14 GMT george said:

I know this is an old thread but just been on the 23 from Hammersmith to Hyde Park Corner and the whole journey I was the only person upstairs. The other ones that went past had no more than 5 people upstairs but maybe the route gets very crowded between Marble Arch and Westbourne park.

Sept 5, 2019 15:27:13 GMT LK65EBO said:

1. 116
2. Its not that busy at much of the route with hardly anyone upstairs
3. Enviro 200 MMCs 11.5m from the H37
4. If the 235 was at London United I would reallocate some of the VHs to that route with a small diversion otherwise they would go to the H37

I had a very different observation to you re the 23 on Monday. Although I rode it at about 4:30, which is getting busy at that time. I was on a Marble Arch bound 23, and my bus had a person in nearly every row of seats upstairs. Hammersmith bound I saw two FULLY seated 23’s and a lot more very well loaded ones, and a few quiet ones. It looks like you went at an off-peak time when yes it appears to be quiter, as with most routes. But I’d like to reassure you that that part of the 23 certainly isn’t dead anymore, only at certain, less busy times.

With regards to the 116, I’ve seen some busy ones. Another thing is that it’s usage has now jumped significantly since it was single deck, so although buses may not be busy all the time one could view its decking as necessary as it’s increased growth. Also some food for thought, the 116’s PVR is just seven and the route carried as near as makes no difference 2 million people last year.

If just seven single deck vehicles were carrying two million passengers a year trust me it’s very likely loadings would be very strained. Look at the 203, it has an identical PVR and near identical usage figures. And guess what, it’s rammed to the rafters nearly all the time. One big difference between the 203 and 116 however is that they’re 10 and 6 miles long respectively. Try taking the same amount of people that use a 10 mile route, uses full size single deckers and still manages to be packed to the brim and then put those people onto a route just over half its length AND onto smaller single deckers (like what the 116 had before 2015). Trust me, taking that into consideration it needs deckers I don’t think TfL would have decked the route in 2015 if it wasn’t struggling with the buses it had (sssssshhhhh about the D8 )

Maybe I was being a bit harsh as like you I have seen busy 23s mainly on the weekend, having said that I would certainly would have expected more than one person upstairs even though I was travelling at off peak time, we are talking 13.00 here on a weekday afternoon on a central London bus route not 03.00 in the morning.

[ronnie]

Sept 6, 2019 0:20:08 GMT vjaska said:

Sept 5, 2019 23:28:37 GMT DE20106 said:

I had a very different observation to you re the 23 on Monday. Although I rode it at about 4:30, which is getting busy at that time. I was on a Marble Arch bound 23, and my bus had a person in nearly every row of seats upstairs. Hammersmith bound I saw two FULLY seated 23’s and a lot more very well loaded ones, and a few quiet ones. It looks like you went at an off-peak time when yes it appears to be quiter, as with most routes. But I’d like to reassure you that that part of the 23 certainly isn’t dead anymore, only at certain, less busy times.

With regards to the 116, I’ve seen some busy ones. Another thing is that it’s usage has now jumped significantly since it was single deck, so although buses may not be busy all the time one could view its decking as necessary as it’s increased growth. Also some food for thought, the 116’s PVR is just seven and the route carried as near as makes no difference 2 million people last year.

If just seven single deck vehicles were carrying two million passengers a year trust me it’s very likely loadings would be very strained. Look at the 203, it has an identical PVR and near identical usage figures. And guess what, it’s rammed to the rafters nearly all the time. One big difference between the 203 and 116 however is that they’re 10 and 6 miles long respectively. Try taking the same amount of people that use a 10 mile route, uses full size single deckers and still manages to be packed to the brim and then put those people onto a route just over half its length AND onto smaller single deckers (like what the 116 had before 2015). Trust me, taking that into consideration it needs deckers I don’t think TfL would have decked the route in 2015 if it wasn’t struggling with the buses it had (sssssshhhhh about the D8 )

The D8's loadings have increased over the last two years for whatever reason - certainly under Tower Transit, the loadings I've seen when I've been in the area have been far more than they used to be so I personally wouldn't include that one anymore.

It indeed has. I have even seen 40-50 people at times!

[rhys]

Unless you’re local to a route, I think it’s impossible to gauge whether or not a route is deserving of double decks based off small observations at certain periods of the day.

[george]

Sept 6, 2019 8:17:12 GMT rhys said:

Unless you’re local to a route, I think it’s impossible to gauge whether or not a route is deserving of double decks based off small observations at certain periods of the day.

I get what you're saying but I do travel on the 23 often in the day. What is annoying is when people have an opinion on the future of a said route when they have never used the said route in their life.

[10121ddo]

Personally, after much thought, 215 made single and up the frequency. Hint at a AW takeover...