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Post by twobellstogo on Aug 6, 2018 9:19:43 GMT
Your point about there being next to no demand for the 453 along Marylebone Road is not true. Have you seen the 453 in the peaks between Marylebone and OC? Buses on the 453 can often be seen carrying healthy loads to and from Marylebone in the peaks, so on this basis the 453 is more than justified to remain in its current form, albeit with a slight frequency decrease outside the peaks. On the subject of the 53, cutting it back to Waterloo would be ridiculous, the route should remain terminating as close to the West End as possible to provide that link. While its current terminus at Whitehall is still inconveniently short of the major hotspot of Trafalgar Square, Waterloo is just a step too far. I would allow the 53 to terminate at Trafalgar Square to facilitate the connection to the West End. I would also reroute the 53 at the other end to bypass Plumstead Common in order to reduce its running time, the 54 can be extended to Plumstead via Plumstead Common as a replacement. You obviously haven't seen the large number of people who get on the 53 between Plumstead Common and Woolwich and continue to New Cross and beyond. Buses are running at very frequent intervals - much more than the 54. The section between the Common and Plumstead Station is lightly used but there for crew facilities in the garage, I don’t think it’s so much pax continuing from Plumstead Common to Woolwich and on to New Cross and beyond (most ppl seem to go to/from the station), it’s simply the Plumstead Common - Woolwich part of the 53 (and 51) is very busy and the 54 isn’t an adequate replacement for the 53 : you’d need a third service to assist. |
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Post by rmz19 on Aug 6, 2018 11:20:46 GMT
Your point about there being next to no demand for the 453 along Marylebone Road is not true. Have you seen the 453 in the peaks between Marylebone and OC? Buses on the 453 can often be seen carrying healthy loads to and from Marylebone in the peaks, so on this basis the 453 is more than justified to remain in its current form, albeit with a slight frequency decrease outside the peaks. On the subject of the 53, cutting it back to Waterloo would be ridiculous, the route should remain terminating as close to the West End as possible to provide that link. While its current terminus at Whitehall is still inconveniently short of the major hotspot of Trafalgar Square, Waterloo is just a step too far. I would allow the 53 to terminate at Trafalgar Square to facilitate the connection to the West End. I would also reroute the 53 at the other end to bypass Plumstead Common in order to reduce its running time, the 54 can be extended to Plumstead via Plumstead Common as a replacement. You obviously haven't seen the large number of people who get on the 53 between Plumstead Common and Woolwich and continue to New Cross and beyond. Buses are running at very frequent intervals - much more than the 54. The section between the Common and Plumstead Station is lightly used but there for crew facilities in the garage, There isn't a great difference between the 53 and 54's frequencies generally, x7-10 mins and x10-15 mins respectively, only evenings and weekends have a bit more contrast between the two, but fair enough, a difference nonetheless. Perhaps a relatively low frequency within the area could be diverted alongside the 54 such as the 99 or 469, preferably the latter due to its shorter running time. Though this would generally result in 2 extra BPH along the common section this would be offset by the lower capacity SD 469, so it should be fine. |
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Post by cl54 on Aug 6, 2018 12:39:53 GMT
You obviously haven't seen the large number of people who get on the 53 between Plumstead Common and Woolwich and continue to New Cross and beyond. Buses are running at very frequent intervals - much more than the 54. The section between the Common and Plumstead Station is lightly used but there for crew facilities in the garage, There isn't a great difference between the 53 and 54's frequencies generally, x7-10 mins and x10-15 mins respectively, only evenings and weekends have a bit more contrast between the two, but fair enough, a difference nonetheless. Perhaps a relatively low frequency within the area could be diverted alongside the 54 such as the 99 or 469, preferably the latter due to its shorter running time. Though this would generally result in 2 extra BPH along the common section this would be offset by the lower capacity SD 469, so it should be fine. If it ain't broke don't fix it. The 53 is just fine as is the 99. The 469 is a single decker. |
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Post by busaholic on Aug 6, 2018 12:50:24 GMT
You obviously haven't seen the large number of people who get on the 53 between Plumstead Common and Woolwich and continue to New Cross and beyond. Buses are running at very frequent intervals - much more than the 54. The section between the Common and Plumstead Station is lightly used but there for crew facilities in the garage, I don’t think it’s so much pax continuing from Plumstead Common to Woolwich and on to New Cross and beyond (most ppl seem to go to/from the station), it’s simply the Plumstead Common - Woolwich part of the 53 (and 51) is very busy and the 54 isn’t an adequate replacement for the 53 : you’d need a third service to assist. The 54 terminated at Plumstead Common, The Woodman pub from its inception in the 1930s until about thirty years later! The section from there to Woolwich was ceded to the 51, a far more logical extension imo. I'm old enough to remember the 54s through to PC, but I have dim memories of getting on a 126 from my childhood Eltham home with my parents to travel to the aforesaid Woodman pub, where my Uncle George was the landlord, and was the only pub I ever visited (legally) as a child! The 126 terminated at the Woodman too at the time. Anyone know of any accessible photos of buses on the stand there? |
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Post by sid on Aug 6, 2018 13:22:36 GMT
There isn't a great difference between the 53 and 54's frequencies generally, x7-10 mins and x10-15 mins respectively, only evenings and weekends have a bit more contrast between the two, but fair enough, a difference nonetheless. Perhaps a relatively low frequency within the area could be diverted alongside the 54 such as the 99 or 469, preferably the latter due to its shorter running time. Though this would generally result in 2 extra BPH along the common section this would be offset by the lower capacity SD 469, so it should be fine. If it ain't broke don't fix it. The 53 is just fine as is the 99. The 469 is a single decker. I don't think the 53 was broken in the first place, PD to Oxford Circus was fine and the 453 could be reduced to peak hour only NX to Marylebone. |
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Post by danorak on Aug 6, 2018 13:23:49 GMT
I don’t think it’s so much pax continuing from Plumstead Common to Woolwich and on to New Cross and beyond (most ppl seem to go to/from the station), it’s simply the Plumstead Common - Woolwich part of the 53 (and 51) is very busy and the 54 isn’t an adequate replacement for the 53 : you’d need a third service to assist. The 54 terminated at Plumstead Common, The Woodman pub from its inception in the 1930s until about thirty years later! The section from there to Woolwich was ceded to the 51, a far more logical extension imo. I'm old enough to remember the 54s through to PC, but I have dim memories of getting on a 126 from my childhood Eltham home with my parents to travel to the aforesaid Woodman pub, where my Uncle George was the landlord, and was the only pub I ever visited (legally) as a child! The 126 terminated at the Woodman too at the time. Anyone know of any accessible photos of buses on the stand there? What was the stand working there? I've never been able to figure it out. |
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Post by busaholic on Aug 6, 2018 13:33:52 GMT
The 54 terminated at Plumstead Common, The Woodman pub from its inception in the 1930s until about thirty years later! The section from there to Woolwich was ceded to the 51, a far more logical extension imo. I'm old enough to remember the 54s through to PC, but I have dim memories of getting on a 126 from my childhood Eltham home with my parents to travel to the aforesaid Woodman pub, where my Uncle George was the landlord, and was the only pub I ever visited (legally) as a child! The 126 terminated at the Woodman too at the time. Anyone know of any accessible photos of buses on the stand there? What was the stand working there? I've never been able to figure it out. I've no idea! I think I only went there once, when I was about 7, and was probably overwhelmed by the pub and my uncle, who was ex-Royal Navy and looked like James Robertson Justice, with the voice to match! I don't remember the buses standing on pub land, but, as I say, I remember very little about it at all, which is why I'm interested in finding photos (and very happy to pay for such.) |
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Post by vjaska on Aug 6, 2018 13:40:21 GMT
If it ain't broke don't fix it. The 53 is just fine as is the 99. The 469 is a single decker. I don't think the 53 was broken in the first place, PD to Oxford Circus was fine and the 453 could be reduced to peak hour only NX to Marylebone. Congestion has significantly increased and continues to do since then so it would hit reliability hard - personally, it was the right decision in the circumstances. The 53 isn’t broke between Plumstead & Woolwich but diverting via the direct route would massively help it - the 54 & one of the 178 or 469 would be a good alternative and provide some new links in the process. |
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Post by busaholic on Aug 6, 2018 13:48:15 GMT
You obviously haven't seen the large number of people who get on the 53 between Plumstead Common and Woolwich and continue to New Cross and beyond. Buses are running at very frequent intervals - much more than the 54. The section between the Common and Plumstead Station is lightly used but there for crew facilities in the garage, There isn't a great difference between the 53 and 54's frequencies generally, x7-10 mins and x10-15 mins respectively, only evenings and weekends have a bit more contrast between the two, but fair enough, a difference nonetheless. Perhaps a relatively low frequency within the area could be diverted alongside the 54 such as the 99 or 469, preferably the latter due to its shorter running time. Though this would generally result in 2 extra BPH along the common section this would be offset by the lower capacity SD 469, so it should be fine. I think there is a great difference between those two frequencies, especially if you're a regular user. |
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Post by cl54 on Aug 6, 2018 17:11:10 GMT
There isn't a great difference between the 53 and 54's frequencies generally, x7-10 mins and x10-15 mins respectively, only evenings and weekends have a bit more contrast between the two, but fair enough, a difference nonetheless. Perhaps a relatively low frequency within the area could be diverted alongside the 54 such as the 99 or 469, preferably the latter due to its shorter running time. Though this would generally result in 2 extra BPH along the common section this would be offset by the lower capacity SD 469, so it should be fine. I think there is a great difference between those two frequencies, especially if you're a regular user. Perhaps on paper but in real time as one bus heads towards Central London London from the Woolwich Arsenal stop in the morning peak, the next bus is approaching. The passengers on board a 53 don't want to go to Blackheath Village and Lewisham. The 53s from the Herbert Road stop towards London at this time are pretty close to full. Before you reply with hopper fare please bear in mind passengers travelling to the Elephant & Castle want to sit. They geat a seat on the Plumstead section. The 99 and 469 are there for their existing users who don't want to be diverted with around 10 minutes added to their journey time. The housing development in the area around the river continues apace. Curtailing the 53 at County Hall can only be justified if the traffic conditions are making it impossible for the drivers to make a round trip from Plumstead. This is a problem with an end on allocation. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Aug 6, 2018 17:43:49 GMT
To maintain a proper cental london link from Woolwich and Blackheath what if the corridor was restructured into 53 Plumstead to Elephant (maybe even NX) and 453 Woolwich to Oxford Circus. The 113 could be diverted at Baker Street to Oxo via the 453 (which would remove another Oxford Street route). Freqs could be every 8-10 mins on both.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 6, 2018 17:51:03 GMT
To maintain a proper cental london link from Woolwich and Blackheath what if the corridor was restructured into 53 Plumstead to Elephant (maybe even NX) and 453 Woolwich to Oxford Circus. The 113 could be diverted at Baker Street to Oxo via the 453 (which would remove another Oxford Street route). Freqs could be every 8-10 mins on both. As an alternative to the current 53, that’s actually not too bad though there is no space at Elephant to terminate anything else. |
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Post by sid on Aug 6, 2018 17:59:50 GMT
To maintain a proper cental london link from Woolwich and Blackheath what if the corridor was restructured into 53 Plumstead to Elephant (maybe even NX) and 453 Woolwich to Oxford Circus. The 113 could be diverted at Baker Street to Oxo via the 453 (which would remove another Oxford Street route). Freqs could be every 8-10 mins on both. The problem then is that you would have an excessive level of service between Deptford and Woolwich. Alternatively just run the 53 from PD to New Cross and leave the 453 as it is although a lot of people lose their Central London link. Then again there is hopper fare or the train. |
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Post by redbus on Aug 6, 2018 18:19:11 GMT
To maintain a proper cental london link from Woolwich and Blackheath what if the corridor was restructured into 53 Plumstead to Elephant (maybe even NX) and 453 Woolwich to Oxford Circus. The 113 could be diverted at Baker Street to Oxo via the 453 (which would remove another Oxford Street route). Freqs could be every 8-10 mins on both. One of the things keeping the 113 quite busy is that it was a partial replacement for the 13 down to Oxo. If you re-route it as suggested you risk losing passengers which in turn could put it in danger of a frequency cut. |
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Post by sid on Aug 6, 2018 18:50:29 GMT
To maintain a proper cental london link from Woolwich and Blackheath what if the corridor was restructured into 53 Plumstead to Elephant (maybe even NX) and 453 Woolwich to Oxford Circus. The 113 could be diverted at Baker Street to Oxo via the 453 (which would remove another Oxford Street route). Freqs could be every 8-10 mins on both. One of the things keeping the 113 quite busy is that it was a partial replacement for the 13 down to Oxo. If you re-route it as suggested you risk losing passengers which in turn could put it in danger of a frequency cut. That rerouting is likely to happen anyway if and when buses are banished from Oxford Street. |
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