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Post by LondonNorthern on Jul 17, 2020 12:10:23 GMT
It's been suggested several times on here that the 94 is likely to be truncated at Marble Arch which would cause the same problem..... either way I can't see both the 94 and 148 surviving in their current form in the long term. I know TfL intend on cutting the 94 back to Marble Arch given they're hell bent on removing bus routes from Oxford Street but I think the 94 would work better if the route wasn't broken in half as you propose. When the cut back does happen the route will still have plenty of potential at the western end and could be extended to somewhere like Brentford, Richmond or Twickenham. I concede that there's a good chance that one of the 94/148 could be axed in future though. The 148 would be a much better option given that it's followed by the 12 to Westminster and that the link to Victoria and up Park Lane is done by the 36 at a high frequency and avoids central London with the 94 covering the rest
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Post by rif153 on Jul 17, 2020 12:13:17 GMT
I know TfL intend on cutting the 94 back to Marble Arch given they're hell bent on removing bus routes from Oxford Street but I think the 94 would work better if the route wasn't broken in half as you propose. When the cut back does happen the route will still have plenty of potential at the western end and could be extended to somewhere like Brentford, Richmond or Twickenham. I concede that there's a good chance that one of the 94/148 could be axed in future though. The 148 would be a much better option given that it's followed by the 12 to Westminster and that the link to Victoria and up Park Lane is done by the 36 at a high frequency and avoids central London with the 94 covering the rest I don't follow. The 148 would be a ''better option'' for what?
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jul 17, 2020 12:15:27 GMT
The 148 would be a much better option given that it's followed by the 12 to Westminster and that the link to Victoria and up Park Lane is done by the 36 at a high frequency and avoids central London with the 94 covering the rest I don't follow. The 148 would be a ''better option'' for what? The 148 would be better Withdrawn
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Post by greg on Jul 17, 2020 12:21:40 GMT
I know TfL intend on cutting the 94 back to Marble Arch given they're hell bent on removing bus routes from Oxford Street but I think the 94 would work better if the route wasn't broken in half as you propose. When the cut back does happen the route will still have plenty of potential at the western end and could be extended to somewhere like Brentford, Richmond or Twickenham. I concede that there's a good chance that one of the 94/148 could be axed in future though. The 148 would be a much better option given that it's followed by the 12 to Westminster and that the link to Victoria and up Park Lane is done by the 36 at a high frequency and avoids central London with the 94 covering the rest It does have good links though, and from the Bayswater Road distance the 94 is much shorter to Piccadilly whereas the 148 goes all the way to Camberwell, Although it duplicates, it gives links to places that other routes don’t. If the 73 was extended to Notting Hill for example, then that could easily be the end of the 94. And extend another route to Acton like the 31 or something. Thinking about what you said though, they could just reroute the 12 from Parliament Square via the 148 back to Notting Hill/Shepherd’s Bush like old times and then keep the 88, 159 and 453 instead as far as Oxford Circus. 12 also follows the 148 all the way to Camberwell aswell.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jul 17, 2020 12:33:52 GMT
The 148 would be a much better option given that it's followed by the 12 to Westminster and that the link to Victoria and up Park Lane is done by the 36 at a high frequency and avoids central London with the 94 covering the rest It does have good links though, and from the Bayswater Road distance the 94 is much shorter to Piccadilly whereas the 148 goes all the way to Camberwell, Although it duplicates, it gives links to places that other routes don’t. If the 73 was extended to Notting Hill for example, then that could easily be the end of the 94. And extend another route to Acton like the 31 or something. Thinking about what you said though, they could just reroute the 12 from Parliament Square via the 148 back to Notting Hill/Shepherd’s Bush like old times and then keep the 88, 159 and 453 instead as far as Oxford Circus. 12 also follows the 148 all the way to Cambeprwell aswell. Or the 12 is extended from Oxo to Marble Arch via Wigmore Street and if needed the 94 could be cut back.
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Post by rif153 on Jul 17, 2020 12:34:23 GMT
The 148 would be a much better option given that it's followed by the 12 to Westminster and that the link to Victoria and up Park Lane is done by the 36 at a high frequency and avoids central London with the 94 covering the rest It does have good links though, and from the Bayswater Road distance the 94 is much shorter to Piccadilly whereas the 148 goes all the way to Camberwell, Although it duplicates, it gives links to places that other routes don’t. If the 73 was extended to Notting Hill for example, then that could easily be the end of the 94. And extend another route to Acton like the 31 or something. Thinking about what you said though, they could just reroute the 12 from Parliament Square via the 148 back to Notting Hill/Shepherd’s Bush like old times and then keep the 88, 159 and 453 instead as far as Oxford Circus. 12 also follows the 148 all the way to Camberwell aswell. The reason the 148 was created was to mitigate the removal of the 12 from Bayswater Road and personally I really like that the 148 does still provide links from Bayswater Road to Westminster and Elephant. The link it provides going via Victoria and the round the corner link to Victoria Street are both very nifty, a masterstroke by the bus planners of the early 2000s. I'm a huge fan of the useful links the 148 provides and would be distraught if those links were lost, the route is quite well used though the 94 is the busier route of the two. I wouldn't be surprised if TfL were to look at Walworth Road whether they'd consider cutting the 148 back to Elephant, the only obstacle being the lack of stand space at Elephant.
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Post by paulo on Jul 17, 2020 13:43:05 GMT
It does have good links though, and from the Bayswater Road distance the 94 is much shorter to Piccadilly whereas the 148 goes all the way to Camberwell, Although it duplicates, it gives links to places that other routes don’t. If the 73 was extended to Notting Hill for example, then that could easily be the end of the 94. And extend another route to Acton like the 31 or something. Thinking about what you said though, they could just reroute the 12 from Parliament Square via the 148 back to Notting Hill/Shepherd’s Bush like old times and then keep the 88, 159 and 453 instead as far as Oxford Circus. 12 also follows the 148 all the way to Camberwell aswell. The reason the 148 was created was to mitigate the removal of the 12 from Bayswater Road and personally I really like that the 148 does still provide links from Bayswater Road to Westminster and Elephant. The link it provides going via Victoria and the round the corner link to Victoria Street are both very nifty, a masterstroke by the bus planners of the early 2000s. I'm a huge fan of the useful links the 148 provides and would be distraught if those links were lost, the route is quite well used though the 94 is the busier route of the two. I wouldn't be surprised if TfL were to look at Walworth Road whether they'd consider cutting the 148 back to Elephant, the only obstacle being the lack of stand space at Elephant. The 406’s VH’s can’t be swapped for older vehicles as per contract. I would have thought the 13 reg are nailed on for the 28. Good wins for RATP in this round.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jul 17, 2020 13:46:32 GMT
The reason the 148 was created was to mitigate the removal of the 12 from Bayswater Road and personally I really like that the 148 does still provide links from Bayswater Road to Westminster and Elephant. The link it provides going via Victoria and the round the corner link to Victoria Street are both very nifty, a masterstroke by the bus planners of the early 2000s. I'm a huge fan of the useful links the 148 provides and would be distraught if those links were lost, the route is quite well used though the 94 is the busier route of the two. I wouldn't be surprised if TfL were to look at Walworth Road whether they'd consider cutting the 148 back to Elephant, the only obstacle being the lack of stand space at Elephant. The 406’s VH’s can’t be swapped for older vehicles as per contract. I would have thought the 13 reg are nailed on for the 28. Good wins for RATP in this round. there's a good chance the 218/306/440 will be looked at with the 218 & 440 swapping back routings in Acton & the 306 withdrawn, the 218 using DNHs from the 23 and extended to Sands End with a higher frequency. The DMLs & WVs could then be distributed elsewhere in the fleet or get withdrawn. The VHs from the 306 can then be used elsewhere
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Post by vjaska on Jul 17, 2020 14:30:41 GMT
I don't follow. The 148 would be a ''better option'' for what? The 148 would be better Withdrawn Unless you use the route often, how could you suggest such a thing as a route would be better withdrawn. It's one thing to give an opinion but another to outright suggest it's better to be withdrawn Whilst I personally would keep both routes and it's not really my area anyway, if I was to look at the two routes in question from an objective point of view, the 94 would look to the one in trouble. The 148 has a number of unique links and provides assistance to the 12 at the southern end whilst linking Victoria & Hyde Park Corner with the Bayswater Road corridor - the 94 in comparison probably has less unique links on the whole and could (I stress could very much) be replaced rather easier than the 148 should they really wish by diverting something to cover the Bayswater Road corridor and diverting something else to cover the Goldhawk Road and Acton Green section. Couple in the fact that TfL clearly want routes gone from Oxford Street regardless of any pedestrianisation or not and weighing up the other factors, it's the 94 that would look more in trouble overall.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jul 17, 2020 14:41:49 GMT
The 148 would be better Withdrawn Unless you use the route often, how could you suggest such a thing as a route would be better withdrawn. It's one thing to give an opinion but another to outright suggest it's better to be withdrawn Whilst I personally would keep both routes and it's not really my area anyway, if I was to look at the two routes in question from an objective point of view, the 94 would look to the one in trouble. The 148 has a number of unique links and provides assistance to the 12 at the southern end whilst linking Victoria & Hyde Park Corner with the Bayswater Road corridor - the 94 in comparison probably has less unique links on the whole and could (I stress could very much) be replaced rather easier than the 148 should they really wish by diverting something to cover the Bayswater Road corridor and diverting something else to cover the Goldhawk Road and Acton Green section. Couple in the fact that TfL clearly want routes gone from Oxford Street regardless of any pedestrianisation or not and weighing up the other factors, it's the 94 that would look more in trouble overall. The 94 has a lot more potential on the western end as has been mentioned and that it could always be extended to Victoria from Marble Arch. I have used the 148 a lot of times, though the 94 seems busier. The west end link is one that I think is increasingly popular. I could see the 94 being rerouted but not fully removed from Oxford Street, and although there's plans it could really not help matters given that nightclubbing is one an increase even long before lockdown, 94s are always busy on the section. The 139 would severely struggle without the 94 given how popular Oxford Circus and Picadilly Circus is on Friday and Saturday nights. The only other option is what some have suggested with the 68, where it's cut off somewhere and rerouted which the 148 could always replicate. I get both routes are at risk, but this may also be an opportunity for tfl to think of utilising the western end, and it's only 6 miles long. I'm sure the 148 is very well used and this corridor is an incredibly difficult one, but passengers can always change from a 94 to a 13 or 36. They are two very frequent routes. It's a tough one.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 17, 2020 15:02:37 GMT
Unless you use the route often, how could you suggest such a thing as a route would be better withdrawn. It's one thing to give an opinion but another to outright suggest it's better to be withdrawn Whilst I personally would keep both routes and it's not really my area anyway, if I was to look at the two routes in question from an objective point of view, the 94 would look to the one in trouble. The 148 has a number of unique links and provides assistance to the 12 at the southern end whilst linking Victoria & Hyde Park Corner with the Bayswater Road corridor - the 94 in comparison probably has less unique links on the whole and could (I stress could very much) be replaced rather easier than the 148 should they really wish by diverting something to cover the Bayswater Road corridor and diverting something else to cover the Goldhawk Road and Acton Green section. Couple in the fact that TfL clearly want routes gone from Oxford Street regardless of any pedestrianisation or not and weighing up the other factors, it's the 94 that would look more in trouble overall. The 94 has a lot more potential on the western end as has been mentioned and that it could always be extended to Victoria from Marble Arch. I have used the 148 a lot of times, though the 94 seems busier. The west end link is one that I think is increasingly popular. I could see the 94 being rerouted but not fully removed from Oxford Street, and although there's plans it could really not help matters given that nightclubbing is one an increase even long before lockdown, 94s are always busy on the section. The 139 would severely struggle without the 94 given how popular Oxford Circus and Picadilly Circus is on Friday and Saturday nights. The only other option is what some have suggested with the 68, where it's cut off somewhere and rerouted which the 148 could always replicate. I get both routes are at risk, but this may also be an opportunity for tfl to think of utilising the western end, and it's only 6 miles long. I'm sure the 148 is very well used and this corridor is an incredibly difficult one, but passengers can always change from a 94 to a 13 or 36. They are two very frequent routes. It's a tough one. Yes, the 94 could always be extended to Victoria but that also doesn't mean it automatically should be done just because it can. The times I've been along the Bayswater Road section, both routes have been busy and let me stress once again, I'd personally keep both routes but objectively, if in the worst case scenario, one has to go, the 94 looks more in danger because TfL don't want bus routes on Oxford Street. You mention the 139 struggling without the 94 - again, I don't doubt this does happen but the 159 also traverses the same routing currently except it follows the 139 as far as Trafalgar Square and the fact you don't mention could lead some to think that the 159 currently provides no assistance to it right now despite running alongside it. The 68 has been done to death - as a local to that route, I've made my position quite clear as to why those suggestions aren't as viable given they break multiple links and why the 188 looks far more in trouble (again, I'd rather see it stay). You mention the potential of the western section of the 94 - there's no reason why it couldn't survive by becoming a more local route providing it's done correctly but I don't think that should be used as a reason to withdraw the 148.
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Post by ADH45258 on Jul 17, 2020 22:12:14 GMT
The 406’s VH’s can’t be swapped for older vehicles as per contract. I would have thought the 13 reg are nailed on for the 28. Good wins for RATP in this round. there's a good chance the 218/306/440 will be looked at with the 218 & 440 swapping back routings in Acton & the 306 withdrawn, the 218 using DNHs from the 23 and extended to Sands End with a higher frequency. The DMLs & WVs could then be distributed elsewhere in the fleet or get withdrawn. The VHs from the 306 can then be used elsewhere Doubt this will happen since the 306 has recently been retendered.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jul 17, 2020 22:15:22 GMT
there's a good chance the 218/306/440 will be looked at with the 218 & 440 swapping back routings in Acton & the 306 withdrawn, the 218 using DNHs from the 23 and extended to Sands End with a higher frequency. The DMLs & WVs could then be distributed elsewhere in the fleet or get withdrawn. The VHs from the 306 can then be used elsewhere Doubt this will happen since the 306 has recently been retendered. Could always become Hammersmith to Sands End without being completely withdrawn.
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Post by greenboy on Jul 18, 2020 6:21:40 GMT
Unless you use the route often, how could you suggest such a thing as a route would be better withdrawn. It's one thing to give an opinion but another to outright suggest it's better to be withdrawn Whilst I personally would keep both routes and it's not really my area anyway, if I was to look at the two routes in question from an objective point of view, the 94 would look to the one in trouble. The 148 has a number of unique links and provides assistance to the 12 at the southern end whilst linking Victoria & Hyde Park Corner with the Bayswater Road corridor - the 94 in comparison probably has less unique links on the whole and could (I stress could very much) be replaced rather easier than the 148 should they really wish by diverting something to cover the Bayswater Road corridor and diverting something else to cover the Goldhawk Road and Acton Green section. Couple in the fact that TfL clearly want routes gone from Oxford Street regardless of any pedestrianisation or not and weighing up the other factors, it's the 94 that would look more in trouble overall. The 94 has a lot more potential on the western end as has been mentioned and that it could always be extended to Victoria from Marble Arch. I have used the 148 a lot of times, though the 94 seems busier. The west end link is one that I think is increasingly popular. I could see the 94 being rerouted but not fully removed from Oxford Street, and although there's plans it could really not help matters given that nightclubbing is one an increase even long before lockdown, 94s are always busy on the section. The 139 would severely struggle without the 94 given how popular Oxford Circus and Picadilly Circus is on Friday and Saturday nights. The only other option is what some have suggested with the 68, where it's cut off somewhere and rerouted which the 148 could always replicate. I get both routes are at risk, but this may also be an opportunity for tfl to think of utilising the western end, and it's only 6 miles long. I'm sure the 148 is very well used and this corridor is an incredibly difficult one, but passengers can always change from a 94 to a 13 or 36. They are two very frequent routes. It's a tough one. The 148 was a great success when it was introduced in 2002 but a lot has changed since then and it's hard to see both the 94 and 148 surviving in the long term. If the 94 goes I would suggest extending the 159 to Notting Hill Gate maintaining the link between there and Piccadilly Circus as well as assisting the 139.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 18, 2020 7:16:26 GMT
One small mitigation change they could make (and I know it's small) but the 7 could be extended to Piccadilly Circus in the place of the 94. Whislt it wouldn't retain Bayswater Road link it would atleast maintain Marble Arch to Regent Street link, provide assistance to the 139 round the corner link at Oxford Circus aswell. Similar to how the H22 has been extended to West Middlesex and the 490 gain 2 extra peak journeys.
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