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Route 497
Oct 2, 2018 11:01:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2018 11:01:46 GMT
Anyone know what has happened to this project?
Today I walked from Harold Wood Station along the proposed route to Gallows Corner Tesco, which actually only took me 15 minutes,the maps makes it appear longer. No sign of a forthcoming route, but some interesting observations. St Clements Avenue has a width restriction at the junction of Scotts Pine Way, and a barrier across the road, the signage for St Clements Avenue has the no through road symbol as part of the sign, so they'll have to be removed if a bus ever goes there.
Also I saw yellow road markings near there on either side of the road signalling " Bus Stop", but no stops of course. The paintwork for these markings were old and faded, presumably painted when the road was laid. Beyond the barrier there was no more bus stop paintwork along the rest of St Clements Avenue or Nightingale Crescent.
Have TFL had second thoughts about this route?
A few days previously I went along Chatteris Ave, further along the route , into Harold Hill, no sign of anything there.
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Route 497
Oct 2, 2018 11:06:08 GMT
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Post by 15002 on Oct 2, 2018 11:06:08 GMT
Quote from the consultation:
“it is currently expected to introduce the new service when the second stage of the Elizabeth line opens and when the Kings Park development is further progressed. Further consideration will be given to the frequency of the service and an announcement made nearer the time”
I believe the second stage of the Elizabath line is in May 2019 iirc.
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Route 497
Oct 2, 2018 11:07:18 GMT
via mobile
Post by southlondonbus on Oct 2, 2018 11:07:18 GMT
According to the consultation results it will be looked at again once Crossrail has started.
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Post by routew15 on Oct 2, 2018 11:11:20 GMT
Quote from the consultation: “it is currently expected to introduce the new service when the second stage of the Elizabeth line opens and when the Kings Park development is further progressed. Further consideration will be given to the frequency of the service and an announcement made nearer the time” I believe the second stage of the Elizabath line is in May 2019 iirc. Second stage will not be May 2019 unfortunately, as the first stage / central section is expected to open in Autumn next year (previously December 2018) |
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Post by snoggle on Oct 2, 2018 14:17:17 GMT
Quote from the consultation: “it is currently expected to introduce the new service when the second stage of the Elizabeth line opens and when the Kings Park development is further progressed. Further consideration will be given to the frequency of the service and an announcement made nearer the time” I believe the second stage of the Elizabath line is in May 2019 iirc. Second stage will not be May 2019 unfortunately, as the first stage / central section is expected to open in Autumn next year (previously December 2018) Which then gets us into an interesting debate about what the actual "driver" of this route is. Is it better access in parts of north east Romford? Is it to provide a service to a new housing development which Havering Council have undoubtedly received a contribution from as part of a S106 agreement at TfL's request? Or is it access to rail services but only when those rail service go down a tunnel rather than reaching an existing terminus in the City which already has a range of onward transport links? TfL seem to be suggesting it's the latter with a bit of the second one. They are no doubt secretly pleased that there is a delay to Crossrail given the budgetary issues they face. Having looked again at the route and done the obligatory "Streetview" look I do wonder if the route is going to be caught out by the number of schools on the route. I understand why they're starting with a lowish frequency - that's typical for this part of Outer London. However 3 or 4 schools on the route plus railhead commuting is going to put a lot of strain on a low frequency service. I do, note, though that the consultation does not specify a vehicle type so TfL could put double deckers on it which would give them breathing space capacity wise. Not a fair comparison but I counted 70+ people (over 3 stops) getting on the 123 I was on yesterday afternoon at school kicking out time. Obviously some people alighted too but in essence the bus was full for a fair distance and that's with a notional x11 headway. Large crowds of kids and parents and commuters in the AM peak on a 30 min headway service is going to be some sight. |
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Post by routew15 on Oct 3, 2018 6:13:52 GMT
Second stage will not be May 2019 unfortunately, as the first stage / central section is expected to open in Autumn next year (previously December 2018) Which then gets us into an interesting debate about what the actual "driver" of this route is. Is it better access in parts of north east Romford? Is it to provide a service to a new housing development which Havering Council have undoubtedly received a contribution from as part of a S106 agreement at TfL's request? Or is it access to rail services but only when those rail service go down a tunnel rather than reaching an existing terminus in the City which already has a range of onward transport links? TfL seem to be suggesting it's the latter with a bit of the second one. They are no doubt secretly pleased that there is a delay to Crossrail given the budgetary issues they face. Having looked again at the route and done the obligatory "Streetview" look I do wonder if the route is going to be caught out by the number of schools on the route. I understand why they're starting with a lowish frequency - that's typical for this part of Outer London. However 3 or 4 schools on the route plus railhead commuting is going to put a lot of strain on a low frequency service. I do, note, though that the consultation does not specify a vehicle type so TfL could put double deckers on it which would give them breathing space capacity wise. Not a fair comparison but I counted 70+ people (over 3 stops) getting on the 123 I was on yesterday afternoon at school kicking out time. Obviously some people alighted too but in essence the bus was full for a fair distance and that's with a notional x11 headway. Large crowds of kids and parents and commuters in the AM peak on a 30 min headway service is going to be some sight. Personally i do not support this route as i think extending the 499 could have similar/greater benefits - just it most definitely cost more than this cheap and cheerful 497 proposal. I really do wonder who will wait for a 30 min headway 497 when the 256 , 294, 496 all run a turn-up and go service during the peaks. I do think DDs are unlikely on this route. Looking at recent consultation to re-route the 339 past the new academy in QEOP, it seems that sending small SDs past large (or this case multiple) schools does not register as a concern when planning routes. I remember struggling to get on a 123 at the close of school, on days of bad service i had waited 30 minutes. Although that’s because of the direct destinations the route serves. The 497 does not have this exclusivity so I suspect if a 497 is missed people will do as they have done before and walk to get a 256, 294 or 496. |
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Route 497
Oct 22, 2018 21:29:35 GMT
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Post by britishguy54 on Oct 22, 2018 21:29:35 GMT
I think the 497 route is way too short, it only goes from Harold Hill to Harold Wood; at least extend it to Romford, Hornchurch or even Becontree Heath!?
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Post by vjaska on Oct 23, 2018 0:40:26 GMT
I think the 497 route is way too short, it only goes from Harold Hill to Harold Wood; at least extend it to Romford, Hornchurch or even Becontree Heath!? The whole point of the 497 is to grab local people on roads currently not served by buses and plonk them onto trains at Harold Wood as well provide the new development at King's Park with a bus service. |
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Post by snoggle on Oct 23, 2018 11:00:26 GMT
I think the 497 route is way too short, it only goes from Harold Hill to Harold Wood; at least extend it to Romford, Hornchurch or even Becontree Heath!? The whole point of the 497 is to grab local people on roads currently not served by buses and plonk them onto trains at Harold Wood as well provide the new development at King's Park with a bus service. And if TfL's finances improve at some point there would be nothing to stop them adapting / extending the 497. There are certainly some possibilities to improve local links albeit at a low frequency. |
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Route 497
Oct 23, 2018 11:07:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 11:07:58 GMT
Extending the 497 to Cockabourne Bridge is a possibility, terminating somewhere along Shepherds Hill. Then you could withdraw the 347 from Upminster to Romford and have it run Upminster station to Ockendon, giving it greater frequency than the current two hourly service.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 23, 2018 22:08:54 GMT
The whole point of the 497 is to grab local people on roads currently not served by buses and plonk them onto trains at Harold Wood as well provide the new development at King's Park with a bus service. And if TfL's finances improve at some point there would be nothing to stop them adapting / extending the 497. There are certainly some possibilities to improve local links albeit at a low frequency. Just to be clear, I’m not saying that no extension shouldn’t be explored but there does seem to be an obsession with some people that every short route should be extended merely because it is short. |
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Post by heaton30 on Aug 16, 2019 6:47:05 GMT
Just read on the Harold Hill Community page on Facebook, they won’t be starting the 497 on the 24th August as advertised. No explanation as to why, maybe someone else on here knows more???
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Post by snowman on Aug 16, 2019 6:58:15 GMT
Just read on the Harold Hill Community page on Facebook, they won’t be starting the 497 on the 24th August as advertised. No explanation as to why, maybe someone else on here knows more??? Rumoured to be delayed to 5th October (or later) Due to infrastructure changes at Harold Wood Hospital site not being ready |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2019 12:47:47 GMT
Just read on the Harold Hill Community page on Facebook, they won’t be starting the 497 on the 24th August as advertised. No explanation as to why, maybe someone else on here knows more??? Rumoured to be delayed to 5th October (or later) Due to infrastructure changes at Harold Wood Hospital site not being ready Just this week walked along this proposed new route, no sign of anything happening, no infrastructure work, no.repainting of faded bus stop markings in Kings Park, and next Saturday is the day it's happening. I'll believe it when I see it, I wait with bated breath. |
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Post by E279 on Sept 28, 2019 19:40:50 GMT
Rumoured to be delayed to 5th October (or later) Due to infrastructure changes at Harold Wood Hospital site not being ready Just this week walked along this proposed new route, no sign of anything happening, no infrastructure work, no.repainting of faded bus stop markings in Kings Park, and next Saturday is the day it's happening. I'll believe it when I see it, I wait with bated breath. Wondering if they’ll arrange something where they turn around just before the hospital, NS now have 2 buses sitting there doing absolutely nothing. |
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