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Post by busaholic on Nov 14, 2018 22:42:02 GMT
If you want to get to most of what might be called Central London i.e. the West End, Holborn and a lot of the City of London, not forgetting London Bridge itself and the Southbank, the Overground route should be almost irrelevant except in an emergency. I well remember, shortly after the announcement on the extension of the East London Line to Croydon and Crystal Palace, how house prices in Brockley were the fastest rising in London, and probably the whole country, because of the new links, great if you wanted Canary Wharf and Docklands, maybe a small part of the City near Shoreditch too. I don't think it was ever stated implicitly that all London Bridge services would be retained (indeed, it was doubtful the logistics would allow it) but it was certainly inferred. I had friends (non-Londoners) whose daughter was contemplating buying a flat in Brockley, and asked me about the area, as I lived in S.E. London for 40 years, and its transport. I couldn't comment on the former, as it had changed so much since I knew it last, but I was able to give an opinion on the rail situation, knowing that Overground didn't operate anywhere near her work place. I do remember saying, don't necessarily expect so many London Bridge services in the future, especially as some current users will switch to East London Line but also (presciently?  ) if ELL gets over-subscribed there'll be no way either extra carriages or extra trains can be provided for a few years at least. The point is that the ELL allows easier connections to tube lines at Canada Water and Whitechapel, it'll also have connections with the Elizabeth line when it eventually opens. It's not just designed for a day trip to Hoxton or Dalston. I regularly use the Overground from Forest Hill which is a much busier station than it was pre 2010 as a Southern only station to London Bridge. Since it opened, I've been able to travel around a lot more faster to places such as Romford, Uxbridge, Stratford and the West End etc without having to change at London Bridge or being charged the premium in Zone 1 for changing between Southern and TfL modes. For those of us who actually have used Southern into London Bridge since the 'improvements' to the station and the unwinding of the lines to allow Thameslink to operate independently, who use the stopper services, the time it takes to get from New Cross Gate to LBG has actually doubled. In any case, those who really use West Croydon to get to London Bridge should consider changing at Norwood Junction where there are fast services to London Bridge, while the rest of the travelling public have switched to LO for cheaper fares and easier connections with other TfL modes. I don't disagree with much of what you're saying: you live there and experience it firsthand, I only see it as an occasional visitor, in effect. Yes, Stratford, Romford etc are much easier reached now, in fact I deliberately choose such places to go to when I'm up there for ease of movement. In other words, I'm not knocking Overground, but a combination of fare structures (which TfL can and do skew in their favour), the whole Southern/Thameslink debacle, which of course started years ago, and London Bridge's massive makeover which, unfortunately, skimped on certain aspects has led to the situation where the 'classic' route passengers have been treated badly. The situation whereby so many trains now skip New Cross Gate is injurious to both many locals and longer distance travellers and better planning and resources could have avoided a lot of that: none of that is directly or indirectly TfL's fault, of course. Just one more thing - twenty years ago when Southern, or whatever it called itself then, operated a Metro service every ten minutes offpeak from stations like Sydenham, I used to regularly travel from there to Croydon on it. Most trains went to East Croydon, and many changed to other services there. I didn't really care, I was going into central Croydon, so either East or West was fine, but East was definitely more popular. No Tramlink then either! |
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Post by SILENCED on Nov 14, 2018 23:35:21 GMT
If you want to get to most of what might be called Central London i.e. the West End, Holborn and a lot of the City of London, not forgetting London Bridge itself and the Southbank, the Overground route should be almost irrelevant except in an emergency. I well remember, shortly after the announcement on the extension of the East London Line to Croydon and Crystal Palace, how house prices in Brockley were the fastest rising in London, and probably the whole country, because of the new links, great if you wanted Canary Wharf and Docklands, maybe a small part of the City near Shoreditch too. I don't think it was ever stated implicitly that all London Bridge services would be retained (indeed, it was doubtful the logistics would allow it) but it was certainly inferred. I had friends (non-Londoners) whose daughter was contemplating buying a flat in Brockley, and asked me about the area, as I lived in S.E. London for 40 years, and its transport. I couldn't comment on the former, as it had changed so much since I knew it last, but I was able to give an opinion on the rail situation, knowing that Overground didn't operate anywhere near her work place. I do remember saying, don't necessarily expect so many London Bridge services in the future, especially as some current users will switch to East London Line but also (presciently? ) if ELL gets over-subscribed there'll be no way either extra carriages or extra trains can be provided for a few years at least. The point is that the ELL allows easier connections to tube lines at Canada Water and Whitechapel, it'll also have connections with the Elizabeth line when it eventually opens. It's not just designed for a day trip to Hoxton or Dalston. I regularly use the Overground from Forest Hill which is a much busier station than it was pre 2010 as a Southern only station to London Bridge. Since it opened, I've been able to travel around a lot more faster to places such as Romford, Uxbridge, Stratford and the West End etc without having to change at London Bridge or being charged the premium in Zone 1 for changing between Southern and TfL modes. For those of us who actually have used Southern into London Bridge since the 'improvements' to the station and the unwinding of the lines to allow Thameslink to operate independently, who use the stopper services, the time it takes to get from New Cross Gate to LBG has actually doubled. In any case, those who really use West Croydon to get to London Bridge should consider changing at Norwood Junction where there are fast services to London Bridge, while the rest of the travelling public have switched to LO for cheaper fares and easier connections with other TfL modes. My last comment on this thread will be why the hell to you want to go to Whitechapel or Canada Water? London Bridge or anything north or west of there must be a more popular destination many many times over ... and with 5-cars and no ror lengthening ... such a waste of so many paths on such a busy route. ELL is a complete waste of space to me ... why cant you just change on to it a NXG as in the old days? |
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 14, 2018 23:42:43 GMT
I remember as far back as when it was going to be the East London line that was going to be extended to Croydon (Not a railway which eventually became known as the London Overground) and reading an article that Tulse Hill was going to be on the tube as back then then after the Peckham Rye the extension was going to run down to Streatham and Wimbledon via Tooting. Would have been interesting had it stayed as a tube line and say used something like the 2009 stock as opposed to mainline trains.
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Post by Whitherminter on Nov 15, 2018 1:05:32 GMT
The point is that the ELL allows easier connections to tube lines at Canada Water and Whitechapel, it'll also have connections with the Elizabeth line when it eventually opens. It's not just designed for a day trip to Hoxton or Dalston. I regularly use the Overground from Forest Hill which is a much busier station than it was pre 2010 as a Southern only station to London Bridge. Since it opened, I've been able to travel around a lot more faster to places such as Romford, Uxbridge, Stratford and the West End etc without having to change at London Bridge or being charged the premium in Zone 1 for changing between Southern and TfL modes. For those of us who actually have used Southern into London Bridge since the 'improvements' to the station and the unwinding of the lines to allow Thameslink to operate independently, who use the stopper services, the time it takes to get from New Cross Gate to LBG has actually doubled. In any case, those who really use West Croydon to get to London Bridge should consider changing at Norwood Junction where there are fast services to London Bridge, while the rest of the travelling public have switched to LO for cheaper fares and easier connections with other TfL modes. My last comment on this thread will be why the hell to you want to go to Whitechapel or Canada Water? London Bridge or anything north or west of there must be a more popular destination many many times over ... and with 5-cars and no ror lengthening ... such a waste of so many paths on such a busy route. ELL is a complete waste of space to me ... why cant you just change on to it a NXG as in the old days? In regards to the Canada Water reference, I travel on the ELL 4-6 times a week including on Saturdays. Believe me, Canada Water is a VERY busy station! Many people still do go to London Bridge, but London Overground started getting popular alongside the opening of Stratford Westfield so that drew a lot of people in. North Greenwich & Canary Wharf started getting more people in as well. When ever I need the train at my local station during the peak hours, I don't even bother waiting for a train coming from West Croydon because you'll never be able to get on! At least with Southern trains & ELL from Crystal Palace you have space. Also, some people that want to save money when going to London Bridge, Waterloo & central London change at Canada Water because it's more expensive via Southern AND they charge more for terminal interchanges. Edit - You may not live along the ELL but it most certainly is NOT a waste of space or else they wouldn't have added a 5th carriage no so long ago & the patronage speaks for itself. South East London needed the ELL, fact. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 15, 2018 15:04:33 GMT
So much for the consultation being about to drop. Nearly 2 weeks on and nothing released.
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Post by snoggle on Nov 15, 2018 23:21:41 GMT
So much for the consultation being about to drop. Nearly 2 weeks on and nothing released. Given the report where it was mentioned is a quarterly report and zero timescales were given the consultation could emerge next week or in three months time. We've been waiting for the Coulsdon area and route 470 consultations for over 4 months because they were mentioned in the *previous* quarterly report. Also I suspect proposals keep being reworked until the last minute because of the need to keep squeezing savings out of the network. Don't hold your breath for this Croydon consultation - as with everything with TfL we just have to wait. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 16, 2018 7:51:30 GMT
The Coulsdon and 470 ones are possibly delayed as they are actually increases to the running costs and therefore probably not a high priority for TFL.
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Post by ibus246 on Nov 16, 2018 8:46:00 GMT
The Coulsdon and 470 ones are possibly delayed as they are actually increases to the running costs and therefore probably not a high priority for TFL. Certainly with the 434 the stand time at Whyteleafe will just be redistributed to form the short extension |
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) if ELL gets over-subscribed there'll be no way either extra carriages or extra trains can be provided for a few years at least.
