1975 better deal for london bus users or 2019?

[Deleted]

I just thought of a year and came up with 75 of the top of my head.


Would you be happier using London buses Routemasters and all with the famous Dr Who Tardis taking you back in time or do you feel when you jump on a 148 a 30 a 73 a number 11 or a 25 bus today you feel like real progression since 44 years ago for eg?


Would be interesting to see a www.londonbusroutes.net/routes.htm  <<< 1975 version 


  

[richard]

Apr 24, 2019 23:55:08 GMT @neilm8 said:

I just thought of a year and came up with 75 of the top of my head.


Would you be happier using London buses Routemasters and all with the famous Dr Who Tardis taking you back in time or do you feel when you jump on a 148 a 30 a 73 a number 11 or a 25 bus today you feel like real progression since 44 years ago for eg?


Would be interesting to see a www.londonbusroutes.net/routes.htm  <<< 1975 version 


  

I wish it was all RM and alot of stuff from my childhood was still around like VLA DLA DLD and tridents etc 😁😢 

[Deleted]

It would be interesting if all the services went back to 1975 for the day, for eg the 12 running to its routing back in 1975 and a couple of vehicles guesting from that era for the day how well it would be received? You could have someone saying how nice it is I only need one bus today instead of the usual four and thinking yep this confirms how backwards travel is today.

[vjaska]

Apr 25, 2019 10:32:44 GMT @neilm8 said:

It would be interesting if all the services went back to 1975 for the day, for eg the 12 running to its routing back in 1975 and a couple of vehicles guesting from that era for the day how well it would be received? You could have someone saying how nice it is I only need one bus today instead of the usual four and thinking yep this confirms how backwards travel is today.

We already have things like this - it's called running days. Also, I don't understand how in today's world, travel is backwards?

[sid]

Apr 25, 2019 10:32:44 GMT @neilm8 said:

It would be interesting if all the services went back to 1975 for the day, for eg the 12 running to its routing back in 1975 and a couple of vehicles guesting from that era for the day how well it would be received? You could have someone saying how nice it is I only need one bus today instead of the usual four and thinking yep this confirms how backwards travel is today.

From memory I don't think there were any 12's all the way from South Croydon Garage to Harlesden and they only went to Shepherds Bush on a Sunday which was a much quieter day back then and RT's were the only double deckers that could do the Croydon section because of the tight clearance under the railway bridge in Addiscombe.

[Deleted]

Apr 25, 2019 10:56:35 GMT sid said:

Apr 25, 2019 10:32:44 GMT @neilm8 said:

It would be interesting if all the services went back to 1975 for the day, for eg the 12 running to its routing back in 1975 and a couple of vehicles guesting from that era for the day how well it would be received? You could have someone saying how nice it is I only need one bus today instead of the usual four and thinking yep this confirms how backwards travel is today.

From memory I don't think there were any 12's all the way from South Croydon Garage to Harlesden and they only went to Shepherds Bush on a Sunday which was a much quieter day back then and RT's were the only double deckers that could do the Croydon section because of the tight clearance under the railway bridge in Addiscombe.

So todays vehicles and short distance routes indicates 2019 is indeed performing top notch compared to 1975 which was my question with regards is it all better today!!

[Deleted]

Apr 25, 2019 10:47:38 GMT vjaska said:

Apr 25, 2019 10:32:44 GMT @neilm8 said:

It would be interesting if all the services went back to 1975 for the day, for eg the 12 running to its routing back in 1975 and a couple of vehicles guesting from that era for the day how well it would be received? You could have someone saying how nice it is I only need one bus today instead of the usual four and thinking yep this confirms how backwards travel is today.

We already have things like this - it's called running days. Also, I don't understand how in today's world, travel is backwards?

So todays vehicles and short distance routes indicates 2019 is indeed performing top notch compared to 1975 which was my question with regards is it all better today!!

[John tuthill]

Apr 25, 2019 10:56:35 GMT sid said:

Apr 25, 2019 10:32:44 GMT @neilm8 said:

It would be interesting if all the services went back to 1975 for the day, for eg the 12 running to its routing back in 1975 and a couple of vehicles guesting from that era for the day how well it would be received? You could have someone saying how nice it is I only need one bus today instead of the usual four and thinking yep this confirms how backwards travel is today.

From memory I don't think there were any 12's all the way from South Croydon Garage to Harlesden and they only went to Shepherds Bush on a Sunday which was a much quieter day back then and RT's were the only double deckers that could do the Croydon section because of the tight clearance under the railway bridge in Addiscombe.

Sid, you are correct. As far back as I can remember, the 12 ran with 2 overlapping sections 1)Harlesden to Dulwich 'Plough' and 2) OX to either ED or TC. There was a small diversion/shuttle when Park Royal dog track was operating. On a Sunday, it terminated at Shepherds Bush Green, the 49 being extended to cover the section to Harlesden.

[overgroundcommuter]

We'd need 1975 traffic levels to get back to such long trunk routes returning. Just getting the 176 from Penge to Tottenham Court Road is long enough in the present day!

[Deleted]

Apr 25, 2019 23:44:03 GMT overgroundcommuter said:

We'd need 1975 traffic levels to get back to such long trunk routes returning. Just getting the 176 from Penge to Tottenham Court Road is long enough in the present day!

I thought the Congestion charge was going to improve things? Perhaps it needs to go up?

[snowman]

Apr 25, 2019 23:44:03 GMT overgroundcommuter said:

We'd need 1975 traffic levels to get back to such long trunk routes returning. Just getting the 176 from Penge to Tottenham Court Road is long enough in the present day!

Just looked it up, in 1975 we’re about 14m cars and 2.5m other vehicles, now just over double, about 31m cars and 7m other vehicles
However only 4% of cars are in use on average (80% are parked at home, 16% parked elsewhere)

Cars vary, East Dorset has 694 cars per 1000 (all population including children), but lowest is Hackney at 170 per 1000 (answer 21 on link), if car ownership is a quarter of East Dorset, traffic per population likely to be about a quarter

However adults with driving licences has only gone up from 48% to 74%.
(In 1975 was 69% for men, 29% for women, now is 80% for men, 69% women)

www.racfoundation.org/motoring-faqs/mobility#a5

Difficult to determine how much traffic levels have increased, as most of the extra vehicles are in rural boroughs, so probably only about third extra vehicles in London

[snowman]

Just for fun looked Ian Armstrong route history site for my local area (North Kingston / Ham border)

Currently have 3 routes 65 (pvr 27, frequency 6mins, 10 evenings), 371 (pvr 11 +2 School), K5 (pvr 6, half hourly, no evening service)

In 1975 : 65 was RT operated to Oct 75, then RM, with pvr of 31, but ran to Chessington (now route 71), so pvr equiv about 18
371 didn’t exist, was then 71, but route was effectively today’s 371+465 to Leatherhead combined, pvr was 14 RTs but only 3RFs on Sunday, so Sunday service on current route length had about 1.4 single decks
K5 didn’t exist

Was also 714, 716, 716A Green Line routes, which struggled on until 1976-78, these were very long routes, eg 714 Dorking-Luton, 716 Chertsey-Hitchin, 716A Woking to Stevenage via Kingston, Richmond, Barnes, Marble Arch, Golders Green, Potters Bar, Hatfield

[snoggle]

The problem with imposing 1975's bus network on 2019 is that loads of people would be without buses. The network was much less dense back then with many local suburban areas without bus services. Locally to me there'd be no W11, W12 or W15. What is now the W16 was about every 20 mins if you were lucky - now every 12 mins. I expect the same would be true of parts of Harrow, Bexleyheath, Kingston, Bromley, Orpington etc.

I am sure it was lovely if you were on or near a main road with frequent radial routes but that was about it. 1975 was also in the backwash of the Miners strike with all the shortages that ensued. I doubt service reliability was anywhere near as good then as now. Yes buses may have been faster but they were more than likely much less frequent in many areas and far less reliable because of crew shortages and vehicles breaking down / being unserviceable. There would also have been far fewer bus lanes so buses would get bogged down in traffic in many places because of indiscriminate parking and people just driving because they could. Look at any 1970s telly programme shot in London - you can see what it was like.

[snoggle]

Apr 24, 2019 23:55:08 GMT @neilm8 said:

I just thought of a year and came up with 75 of the top of my head.


Would you be happier using London buses Routemasters and all with the famous Dr Who Tardis taking you back in time or do you feel when you jump on a 148 a 30 a 73 a number 11 or a 25 bus today you feel like real progression since 44 years ago for eg?


Would be interesting to see a www.londonbusroutes.net/routes.htm  <<< 1975 version 


  

Mike Harris has just published a brand new historical London Bus Map for April 1976 so that would give you a pretty clear idea.

www.busmap.co.uk/historic.html#Map1976

You can order online and get a printed copy for £4 or a pdf download for £2.

[Deleted]

Liking the insight into my random year 1975 against todays daily bus service. One thing for certain is more jobs were around in 1975 in this industry