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Post by vjaska on Aug 20, 2019 21:05:09 GMT
Another option would be for the 35 to be diverted to Atkins Road and the 337 extended to Brixton to maintain cacapcity. Then the 45 could be discontinued. That could impact on the 337's reliability especially as traffic has increased a lot since Hammersmith Bridge shut. Not only that but the 337 has a lower frequency than the 35 at every 12 mins compared to every 7-8 mins for the 35. |
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Post by vjaska on Aug 20, 2019 21:06:23 GMT
The 71 and 465 shadowed from Kingston to Chessington one different that the 71 goes via Chessington North and South stations The 465 takes a different routing to reach Surbiton as well running via Portsmouth Road |
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Post by southlondonbus on Aug 20, 2019 21:13:01 GMT
I'm guess I'm trying to recreate the old 37 which would not be a good thing.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 20, 2019 21:16:46 GMT
Another option would be for the 35 to be diverted to Atkins Road and the 337 extended to Brixton to maintain cacapcity. Then the 45 could be discontinued. Where could the 337 stand though? vjaska Does the P4 stand have enough space to accomodate another route? I decided to look at the P4 tender specs on an outdated 2010 copy - there is space for 3 buses. Off topic but interestingly, the information for the stand is before Brixton Hill went two way as it mentions that the Effra Road stand could only be used between 1:00 & 16:00 with buses standing at the stand on Brixton Hill instead at other times. That said, the current stand can at least take three buses having seen three P4's on stand at once (it's mean to be two I believe) but the problem with the stand is coach operators as well as Buses/Coaches Excetera also stand there as well as Victoria Line replacement services (not that we've had one of those for a while now). Thankfully, Buses/Coaches Excetera have bit the dust but you got coaches and minibuses parking there from time to time whilst the passengers go on a guided tour of Brixton - yes that is actually a thing  |
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Post by galwhv69 on Aug 20, 2019 22:10:41 GMT
Where could the 337 stand though? vjaska Does the P4 stand have enough space to accomodate another route? I decided to look at the P4 tender specs on an outdated 2010 copy - there is space for 3 buses. Off topic but interestingly, the information for the stand is before Brixton Hill went two way as it mentions that the Effra Road stand could only be used between 1:00 & 16:00 with buses standing at the stand on Brixton Hill instead at other times. That said, the current stand can at least take three buses having seen three P4's on stand at once (it's mean to be two I believe) but the problem with the stand is coach operators as well as Buses/Coaches Excetera also stand there as well as Victoria Line replacement services (not that we've had one of those for a while now). Thankfully, Buses/Coaches Excetera have bit the dust but you got coaches and minibuses parking there from time to time whilst the passengers go on a guided tour of Brixton - yes that is actually a thing Welcome to the Brixton Tour. We start on Effra Road where to your right you can see the prehistoric St Matthews Church and to your left a classic case of a Boris Bike being stolen of which stealing is a daily occurance in Brixton. We now loop around to Brixton Hill/Road where a long line of customers can be seen outside McDonalds... Yeah,I think I get the jist of it  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 10:06:47 GMT
I'd have switched the 35 and 45 and the northern end as the Clapham Junction to Elephant section is longer then the Atkins Road to Elephant section of the 45. Most people from Clapham Junction/Common only use the 35 to Brixton and Walworth as it's lot less direct then the 344 and 155 to a Elephant and Beyond. Maybe the 35 and hour long Clapham Junction to Elephant route which would improve reliability. That would have been a better option, the 45 would still have some purpose rather than being little more than a short working of the 35. Or just leave the 45 going to Clerkenwell Green, reroute the 40 to Shoreditch and truncate the 35 at the Elephant? |
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Post by rif153 on Aug 21, 2019 10:34:24 GMT
Cheating a bit as not whole routes covered on the below : 241 is covered by every bus terminating at Canning Town Station from Hermit road then 325 (Freemasons Rd)> 262/473 To Stratford (Just small section to Stratford City from Stratford is missed 25: 425,205 then just a small section from Aldgate to Bank not covered but could use the 205 to Liverpool Street then 8! The 308 also covers Stratford to Stratford City |
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Post by 6HP502C on Aug 21, 2019 11:08:15 GMT
Where could the 337 stand though? vjaska Does the P4 stand have enough space to accomodate another route? I decided to look at the P4 tender specs on an outdated 2010 copy - there is space for 3 buses. Off topic but interestingly, the information for the stand is before Brixton Hill went two way as it mentions that the Effra Road stand could only be used between 1:00 & 16:00 with buses standing at the stand on Brixton Hill instead at other times. That said, the current stand can at least take three buses having seen three P4's on stand at once (it's mean to be two I believe) but the problem with the stand is coach operators as well as Buses/Coaches Excetera also stand there as well as Victoria Line replacement services (not that we've had one of those for a while now). Thankfully, Buses/Coaches Excetera have bit the dust but you got coaches and minibuses parking there from time to time whilst the passengers go on a guided tour of Brixton - yes that is actually a thing That service has been canned in favour of extras on the 2. The last time I did it I think we stood on Brixton Road just south of Electric Avenue. |
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Post by vjaska on Aug 21, 2019 11:38:35 GMT
I'd have switched the 35 and 45 and the northern end as the Clapham Junction to Elephant section is longer then the Atkins Road to Elephant section of the 45. Most people from Clapham Junction/Common only use the 35 to Brixton and Walworth as it's lot less direct then the 344 and 155 to a Elephant and Beyond. Maybe the 35 and hour long Clapham Junction to Elephant route which would improve reliability. That would have been a better option, the 45 would still have some purpose rather than being little more than a short working of the 35. Or just leave the 45 going to Clerkenwell Green, reroute the 40 to Shoreditch and truncate the 35 at the Elephant? It's a good idea but again, the 45 still has a purpose which I've explained several times before. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Aug 21, 2019 12:19:46 GMT
Well Atkins Road to Brixton is linked by the 355, so apart from Brixton Hill to Camberwell there are few links unique to the 45 in the hopper fare age. Probably it's saving grace is how rammed Brixton Hill is in the morning so would be hard to loose a route from there.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 21, 2019 13:48:31 GMT
Well Atkins Road to Brixton is linked by the 355, so apart from Brixton Hill to Camberwell there are few links unique to the 45 in the hopper fare age. Probably it's saving grace is how rammed Brixton Hill is in the morning so would be hard to loose a route from there. There are other important local links as well such as Brixton & Brixton Hill to the doctors surgery on Streatham Place & the doctors surgery to Kings College Hospital which is the nearest major hospital. |
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Post by LVF_Admin on Aug 21, 2019 21:14:51 GMT
Does 199 count? Just 47 or even 188 > 180 > any bus going from Lewisham to Bellingham The only section it has to itself [and N199] is Pepys Estate (short walking distances from Evelyn Street - 47/188). The route itself isn’t unnecessary and is also a better alternative to 47 most of the time. It certainly counts in rush hour on school days |
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Post by DE20106 on Aug 21, 2019 22:31:26 GMT
Cheating a bit as not whole routes covered on the below : 241 is covered by every bus terminating at Canning Town Station from Hermit road then 325 (Freemasons Rd)> 262/473 To Stratford (Just small section to Stratford City from Stratford is missed 25: 425,205 then just a small section from Aldgate to Bank not covered but could use the 205 to Liverpool Street then 8! 25 being fully covered by other routes ......................... 😱😱😱 Not quite. The section between Bank Station and Aldgate Station is only ran by the 25 (St Mary Axe, St Katherine Cree etc), sure it has the N550 but night routes don’t count. The two aforementioned stops get an awful lot of use in the peaks. |
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Post by Nathan on Aug 25, 2019 13:02:05 GMT
I think the 45 is somewhat redundant now. You could re-route the 35 via Clapham Park and get rid of it to be honest. You could maybe even argue the 171 might be redundant to a degree. Extend the 172 to Bellingham, increase frequencies of bus route between Peckham and Elephant & Castle and you're good to go. There’s a few flaws to that: 1) Re-routing the 35 adds on a lot of running time which could lead to reliability 2) An important link from the big Tesco in Brixton is severed for Camberwell & more importantly, Loughborough Junction residents (the P5 is not an adequate replacement for Loughborough residents due to taking longer and having a lower frequency) 3) Taking the 35 away from Acre Lane piles further pressure onto the 37 & 355 (P5 less so) as the Lambeth Town Hall stops are very busy stops in their own right The 45’s usage at the Brixton end has actually done not too bad since the cut - I’ve still seen plenty of decently loaded 45’s including some very busy ones. Ironically, the 35 seems to have a fair number of empty buses and bunching seems to have increased - witnessed three last week running together with the 2nd & 3rd almost empty. As I keep repeating, locally it provides extremely important links that are hard to replicate simply by toying with other routes. Hmm, I don't think re-routing the 35 would cause too much disruption. Worst case, increase the PVR if needs be. Not sure about Acre Lane, though. Give the 37 an increase maybe? 🤷🏾♂️Or re-route the 345 perhaps. |
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Post by vjaska on Aug 25, 2019 18:46:07 GMT
There’s a few flaws to that: 1) Re-routing the 35 adds on a lot of running time which could lead to reliability 2) An important link from the big Tesco in Brixton is severed for Camberwell & more importantly, Loughborough Junction residents (the P5 is not an adequate replacement for Loughborough residents due to taking longer and having a lower frequency) 3) Taking the 35 away from Acre Lane piles further pressure onto the 37 & 355 (P5 less so) as the Lambeth Town Hall stops are very busy stops in their own right The 45’s usage at the Brixton end has actually done not too bad since the cut - I’ve still seen plenty of decently loaded 45’s including some very busy ones. Ironically, the 35 seems to have a fair number of empty buses and bunching seems to have increased - witnessed three last week running together with the 2nd & 3rd almost empty. As I keep repeating, locally it provides extremely important links that are hard to replicate simply by toying with other routes. Hmm, I don't think re-routing the 35 would cause too much disruption. Worst case, increase the PVR if needs be. Not sure about Acre Lane, though. Give the 37 an increase maybe? 🤷🏾♂️Or re-route the 345 perhaps. Increasing the PVR won't solve the issues I raised above - you still add running time to the route which could cause reliability issues, you still sever the links I mentioned and you still pile pressue onto the 37 which needs a frequency increase even with the 35 still running along Acre Lane. Re-routing the 345 isn't an option as you then sever the long standing Camberwell to Stockwell link. The 45 has done ok since the cut - there has been empty buses but not anywhere near as many as I feared whilst I've seen more emptier 35's as a result. There is also scope to extend it at either end which would bring further demand. |
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