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Post by thewintersoldier on Sept 5, 2020 11:02:15 GMT
I was listening to two Met line drivers the other day and they were saying to save the difficultly of introducing ATO all the way out to Amersham/Chesham that they thought that LU would simply sell/handover that Section to Chiltern Railways and all Met would be diverted to Watford or terminate at Moor Park. Chiltern would have to go back to stopping at Moor Park and introduce another 2 tph to Amersham and maybe 2 to Chesham or re introduce a shuttle train again. All destinations would all be reachable with only 1 change at either Moor Park and Harrow on the Hill. Now that most the fast trains have gone I guess demand for the Met over Chiltern has probably fallen a bit with the Chiltern trains non stopping so many stations on its way to London. I agree that some aspect of the outer Metropolitan line should be transferred to Chiltern. Some stations are quite far out, and most services stop at all stations giving longer journey times, while the 2tph Chiltern services on this route can get quite busy and have far fewer carriages than the S stock. My suggestion would be to introduce a 3tph shuttle service between Watford and Chesham, run by Chiltern, but with interchange at Amersham or Rickmansworth for direct London services. Rickmansworth would also be a better interchange option than the more isolated Moor Park. Chiltern could take over 2tph to Amersham but with fewer stops than the existing met line, alternating with the 2tph to Aylesbury, with both of these using longer formations. The Met line could then run 6tph all stations to Rickmansworth, though some of these could terminate short at Northwood. The issue with this is Rickmansworth only fits 5 coaches (chiltern) so it prevents any longer trains from being used on the entire route, unless they skip Ricky, which is one of the busiest stations on the route.
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Post by M1104 on Nov 10, 2020 11:47:33 GMT
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Post by Busboy105 on Nov 10, 2020 16:58:45 GMT
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Post by redbus on Nov 11, 2020 0:01:21 GMT
Interesting. I am not convinced the government will want to fund the Croxley link, even if it is 'shovel ready', and TfL certainly can't afford to. With the 'levelling up' agenda and bailouts of TfL (with more to come), will the government want to fund this over say Projects 'further north'?
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Post by ThinLizzy on Nov 11, 2020 11:01:15 GMT
Interesting. I am not convinced the government will want to fund the Croxley link, even if it is 'shovel ready', and TfL certainly can't afford to. With the 'levelling up' agenda and bailouts of TfL (with more to come), will the government want to fund this over say Projects 'further north'? Depends on how many votes they can win in constituencies the link would serve
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Post by ADH45258 on Nov 11, 2020 11:51:01 GMT
Interesting. I am not convinced the government will want to fund the Croxley link, even if it is 'shovel ready', and TfL certainly can't afford to. With the 'levelling up' agenda and bailouts of TfL (with more to come), will the government want to fund this over say Projects 'further north'? Even if the project is closer to possible completion, I'm not sure it should be prioritises over other schemes. Particularly from TFL's point of view, as I don't think there will be many significant benefits of the Croxley link from the London direction - expect for maybe a small number of journeys from places like Pinner or Northwood towards Watford. Passengers travelling from Watford to Central London already have very fast LNWR services to Euston which are relatively frequent, plus the 4tph Overground for destinations via Harrow and Wembley. The Metropolitan Line would take quite an indirect route from Watford Junction or Watford High Street - the slow Overground service would probably still be quicker. For greater journey possibilities in this direction, I would suggest to improve publicity and signage for OSIs at Kenton/Northwick Park (plus perhaps South Hampstead/Swiss Cottage), as this interchange can be quite useful. Some money might also be better spent adding new platforms at Willesden Junction for the LNWR Tring services, providing a fast connection from Watford to Willesden Junction for interchange onto the orbital Overground services, or Bakerloo line via Paddington (omitting the frequent stops between Watford, Harrow and Willesden). The Croxley rail link would perhaps be more beneficial for journeys via Rickmansworth and Amersham. An alternative to reduce traffic into Watford could be to introduce a Park & Ride scheme, something I think is long overdue for Watford. A site had been suggested for the area around the proposed Cassiobridge Station, and some separate proposals for a site near the M1 junction to the east of Watford. A Park & Ride service could also be useful for serving the Hospital and Football Stadium in addition to the town centre, and could even make use of the new link road behind the hospital. This could also replace the existing W30 service in serving the business parks close to the Cassiobridge site. Another possibility could even be to enhance connectivity at the existing Watford station on the Met line, perhaps by rerouteing one of the TFL bus routes to serve the station, linking to Watford Town Centre, or even extending from Watford Junction instead to connect the two stations. I also think Watford station should be renamed (if the Croxley link doesn't take place) due to the misleading location, perhaps to 'Watford West' or 'Cassiobury Park'.
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Post by wirewiper on Nov 11, 2020 12:55:11 GMT
Interesting. I am not convinced the government will want to fund the Croxley link, even if it is 'shovel ready', and TfL certainly can't afford to. With the 'levelling up' agenda and bailouts of TfL (with more to come), will the government want to fund this over say Projects 'further north'? It's actually Three Rivers District Council that is driving this, it was discussed as a motion at one of their recent council meetings. So far all that has been agreed is that the Council will write to the Department of Transport to ask about the possibility of funding for the project as there is a sum of £900 million set aside for so-called "shovel-ready" projects.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 11, 2020 12:59:29 GMT
Interesting. I am not convinced the government will want to fund the Croxley link, even if it is 'shovel ready', and TfL certainly can't afford to. With the 'levelling up' agenda and bailouts of TfL (with more to come), will the government want to fund this over say Projects 'further north'? It's actually Three Rivers District Council that is driving this, it was discussed as a motion at one of their recent council meetings. So far all that has been agreed is that the Council will write to the Department of Transport to ask about the possibility of funding for the project as there is a sum of £900 million set aside for so-called "shovel-ready" projects. If this 900 million pounds is coming straight from the DfT and not from TfL then it can go ahead, but if TfL are expected to fund any of it then I'm firmly against it. I'm all for new links, but when TfL are cutting buses within the London boundary left, right and centre I don't want money to be wasted on something that's barely going to benefit Londoners when the money can be put to better use bettering the network within London.
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Post by wirewiper on Nov 11, 2020 13:08:22 GMT
Interesting. I am not convinced the government will want to fund the Croxley link, even if it is 'shovel ready', and TfL certainly can't afford to. With the 'levelling up' agenda and bailouts of TfL (with more to come), will the government want to fund this over say Projects 'further north'? Even if the project is closer to possible completion, I'm not sure it should be prioritises over other schemes. Particularly from TFL's point of view, as I don't think there will be many significant benefits of the Croxley link from the London direction - expect for maybe a small number of journeys from places like Pinner or Northwood towards Watford. Passengers travelling from Watford to Central London already have very fast LNWR services to Euston which are relatively frequent, plus the 4tph Overground for destinations via Harrow and Wembley. The Metropolitan Line would take quite an indirect route from Watford Junction or Watford High Street - the slow Overground service would probably still be quicker. For greater journey possibilities in this direction, I would suggest to improve publicity and signage for OSIs at Kenton/Northwick Park (plus perhaps South Hampstead/Swiss Cottage), as this interchange can be quite useful. Some money might also be better spent adding new platforms at Willesden Junction for the LNWR Tring services, providing a fast connection from Watford to Willesden Junction for interchange onto the orbital Overground services, or Bakerloo line via Paddington (omitting the frequent stops between Watford, Harrow and Willesden). The Croxley rail link would perhaps be more beneficial for journeys via Rickmansworth and Amersham. An alternative to reduce traffic into Watford could be to introduce a Park & Ride scheme, something I think is long overdue for Watford. A site had been suggested for the area around the proposed Cassiobridge Station, and some separate proposals for a site near the M1 junction to the east of Watford. A Park & Ride service could also be useful for serving the Hospital and Football Stadium in addition to the town centre, and could even make use of the new link road behind the hospital. This could also replace the existing W30 service in serving the business parks close to the Cassiobridge site. Another possibility could even be to enhance connectivity at the existing Watford station on the Met line, perhaps by rerouteing one of the TFL bus routes to serve the station, linking to Watford Town Centre, or even extending from Watford Junction instead to connect the two stations. I also think Watford station should be renamed (if the Croxley link doesn't take place) due to the misleading location, perhaps to 'Watford West' or 'Cassiobury Park'. The big winners if the project went ahead would be the West Watford area, the aforementioned business parks, and the Watford General Hospital Campus where the NHS is looking to expand considerably its activities. A considerable number of people in the Harrow, Pinner and Northwood areas already access the Hospital for some treatments and many of the staff also live in those areas. When the line was built, The Metropolitan Railway had originally wanted its Watford terminus to be right on the High Street - it is rumoured that the building which now houses The Moon Under Water pub was purchased by the Met. for this purpose. However Watford Council objected to the line crossing its newly laid-out Cassiobury Park. The Met. had to build the line as it needed an alternative terminus to Rickmansworth, which was on a constrained site and unsuitable for its planned intensive electric service, so they settled for a somewhat remote terminal site which had originally been earmarked for a goods depot.
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Post by wirewiper on Nov 11, 2020 13:15:06 GMT
It's actually Three Rivers District Council that is driving this, it was discussed as a motion at one of their recent council meetings. So far all that has been agreed is that the Council will write to the Department of Transport to ask about the possibility of funding for the project as there is a sum of £900 million set aside for so-called "shovel-ready" projects. If this 900 million pounds is coming straight from the DfT and not from TfL then it can go ahead, but if TfL are expected to fund any of it then I'm firmly against it. I'm all for new links, but when TfL are cutting buses within the London boundary left, right and centre I don't want money to be wasted on something that's barely going to benefit Londoners when the money can be put to better use bettering the network within London. TfL wouldn't fund it. It's possible that the DfT might ask TfL to deliver the project but that would only happen as part of a funding agreement.
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Post by SILENCED on Nov 11, 2020 13:21:11 GMT
Interesting. I am not convinced the government will want to fund the Croxley link, even if it is 'shovel ready', and TfL certainly can't afford to. With the 'levelling up' agenda and bailouts of TfL (with more to come), will the government want to fund this over say Projects 'further north'? It's actually Three Rivers District Council that is driving this, it was discussed as a motion at one of their recent council meetings. So far all that has been agreed is that the Council will write to the Department of Transport to ask about the possibility of funding for the project as there is a sum of £900 million set aside for so-called "shovel-ready" projects. They are quoting £360m costs. Unless they find some further (major) external finance, can't see over a third of the money available going to this scheme
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Post by ADH45258 on Nov 11, 2020 15:37:09 GMT
Even if the project is closer to possible completion, I'm not sure it should be prioritises over other schemes. Particularly from TFL's point of view, as I don't think there will be many significant benefits of the Croxley link from the London direction - expect for maybe a small number of journeys from places like Pinner or Northwood towards Watford. Passengers travelling from Watford to Central London already have very fast LNWR services to Euston which are relatively frequent, plus the 4tph Overground for destinations via Harrow and Wembley. The Metropolitan Line would take quite an indirect route from Watford Junction or Watford High Street - the slow Overground service would probably still be quicker. For greater journey possibilities in this direction, I would suggest to improve publicity and signage for OSIs at Kenton/Northwick Park (plus perhaps South Hampstead/Swiss Cottage), as this interchange can be quite useful. Some money might also be better spent adding new platforms at Willesden Junction for the LNWR Tring services, providing a fast connection from Watford to Willesden Junction for interchange onto the orbital Overground services, or Bakerloo line via Paddington (omitting the frequent stops between Watford, Harrow and Willesden). The Croxley rail link would perhaps be more beneficial for journeys via Rickmansworth and Amersham. An alternative to reduce traffic into Watford could be to introduce a Park & Ride scheme, something I think is long overdue for Watford. A site had been suggested for the area around the proposed Cassiobridge Station, and some separate proposals for a site near the M1 junction to the east of Watford. A Park & Ride service could also be useful for serving the Hospital and Football Stadium in addition to the town centre, and could even make use of the new link road behind the hospital. This could also replace the existing W30 service in serving the business parks close to the Cassiobridge site. Another possibility could even be to enhance connectivity at the existing Watford station on the Met line, perhaps by rerouteing one of the TFL bus routes to serve the station, linking to Watford Town Centre, or even extending from Watford Junction instead to connect the two stations. I also think Watford station should be renamed (if the Croxley link doesn't take place) due to the misleading location, perhaps to 'Watford West' or 'Cassiobury Park'. The big winners if the project went ahead would be the West Watford area, the aforementioned business parks, and the Watford General Hospital Campus where the NHS is looking to expand considerably its activities. A considerable number of people in the Harrow, Pinner and Northwood areas already access the Hospital for some treatments and many of the staff also live in those areas. When the line was built, The Metropolitan Railway had originally wanted its Watford terminus to be right on the High Street - it is rumoured that the building which now houses The Moon Under Water pub was purchased by the Met. for this purpose. However Watford Council objected to the line crossing its newly laid-out Cassiobury Park. The Met. had to build the line as it needed an alternative terminus to Rickmansworth, which was on a constrained site and unsuitable for its planned intensive electric service, so they settled for a somewhat remote terminal site which had originally been earmarked for a goods depot. Watford General Hospital is already within walking distance of both Watford High Street and Watford (Met line) stations. If better connections are needed to both the hospital and business parks, a think a better and less costly solution would be to introduce a park & ride service (to include the town centre, hospital and business parks) and/or introduce new bus links to areas of demand. Perhaps a third TFL service could serve Watford, linking to Carpenders Park, Hatch End and Pinner?
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Post by vjaska on Nov 11, 2020 16:35:28 GMT
The big winners if the project went ahead would be the West Watford area, the aforementioned business parks, and the Watford General Hospital Campus where the NHS is looking to expand considerably its activities. A considerable number of people in the Harrow, Pinner and Northwood areas already access the Hospital for some treatments and many of the staff also live in those areas. When the line was built, The Metropolitan Railway had originally wanted its Watford terminus to be right on the High Street - it is rumoured that the building which now houses The Moon Under Water pub was purchased by the Met. for this purpose. However Watford Council objected to the line crossing its newly laid-out Cassiobury Park. The Met. had to build the line as it needed an alternative terminus to Rickmansworth, which was on a constrained site and unsuitable for its planned intensive electric service, so they settled for a somewhat remote terminal site which had originally been earmarked for a goods depot. Watford General Hospital is already within walking distance of both Watford High Street and Watford (Met line) stations. If better connections are needed to both the hospital and business parks, a think a better and less costly solution would be to introduce a park & ride service (to include the town centre, hospital and business parks) and/or introduce new bus links to areas of demand. Perhaps a third TFL service could serve Watford, linking to Carpenders Park, Hatch End and Pinner? TfL won't fund a new bus route out into the counties surrounding London and unless it brings considerable benefit to the London area, won't extend any existing services either. This is why the 439 & S2 are proposed as they bring considerable benefit to London residents (the prison is only just over the border and brings workers & visitors alike from across Sutton whilst the 439 is proposed to link Purley Way's retail units with Kenley residents) whilst the 324 is only entering Hertfordshire as it's the next suitable turning point after the hospital. Any sort of new route or extended existing route would be highly likely be a non TfL route. Watford Tube Station is 20 minutes from the hospital whilst Watford High Street is 16 minutes - I'll leave to that everyone to decide if that's too long or not but give some context, it's like walking from Brixton Water Lane to somewhere between Streatham Hill & Streatham.
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Post by Busboy105 on Nov 7, 2021 21:12:02 GMT
Does the Met share the same track as the Circle and H&C between Aldgate and GPS?
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Post by greenboy on Nov 7, 2021 21:17:35 GMT
Does the Met share the same track as the Circle and H&C between Aldgate and GPS? Yes
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