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Post by rif153 on Apr 21, 2020 11:21:45 GMT
Won’t disagree with you there. Unfortunately that part of London has become a two horse race between Metroline and RATP with the double whammy of First selling up to Metroline and Arriva GR closing. At least Abellio has expanded in the West London area to partly fill in the void left by First but at the moment haven’t really seem to get that far north of the A40. Unfortunately other companies can only take a nibble on those routes in that part of London like GAL with the 232. In the future, Arriva could be weird sight in Edgware. Both 221 and 340 are vulnerable to Arriva losing them, especially 340 as they have to compete with both Metroline and RATP not needing ferry vehicles for their drivers as that passes a number of their garages along the route. At least the 221 has WN which makes it a more even playing field for that route I wouldn't mind seeing GAL nabbing the 251 as that would bring them into Edgware - Its worse if Arriva lose the 221/340 as that'll cause less variety in Edgware. My hopes is the 221/340 are kept and 251 when its tender comes in 2 years goes off to GAL to bring them into the area. Although overall I don't really mind where the 251 ends up. Arriva could even nab the 251 - that could quite possibly be the most competitive tender around Edgware - Even Sullivan Buses or Uno as long shot outsiders - the routes going east seem to have been most vulnerable - e.g. the 232. Most other routes going westwards can only be a fight between Metroline and RATP. I think the only area GAL hasn't fully got to yet is further over NW London though - of course in the more eastern part of NW they have the 36 & 232 scraping the area - but not much of a presence overall. I would also like some more GAL in North West London as it would be nice to have so more variety, I was hopeful that Go Ahead were the outsiders for the 139 but in the end it wasn't to be, I would imagine the 139 is easier to run from a garage at the northern end. |
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Post by kmkcheng on Apr 21, 2020 11:21:59 GMT
They were operated by Heathrow, which was an outstation of Dartford, then Arriva Kent Thameside. They used the old Tellings Golden Miller name, but all the buses were Arriva inside and out. They were the first Euro6 E200s, dogged by gearbox problems, meaning Cadets from Dartford, often without blindsets, were thrown on the E10, with A4 sheets. I think, under warranty, ADL fixed everything. Shocking roads in Northolt didn't help the gearboxes either. I think as SDE's they have been okay with RATP. I think they are at Epsom or Tolworth now after RATP lost the route to Abellio. Operating costs and elderly vehicles saw Arriva London sacrifice GR, not the first time greedy developers have ruined something. Richmond Ice Rink got shut down, then the company who bought the land went under. Ditto Ealing Broadway's cinema, only now after years of decline Filmworks, which looks like more apartments, is doing something to make the place look better. See Brentford High Street for further details, its southern side is undergoing first major renovation after being neglected for decades  Arriva wanted garages grouped together, hence more operations in north and south London, and the west London stuff was too far away. They moved non London work out to Hemel Hempstead from Garston.  As shocking as GR sometimes was it is a shame they are gone now - I reckon a little bit of a fix up on maintenance schedules and maybe some investment into the garage could've seen a better operation - but overall Arriva probably didn't deem it as worth it - with the 142/258 loss to RATP being the final straw. But also I thought I saw on here around late 2017/early 2018 time that Arriva had acquired some land in Colindale around the time the 268/288/303/H routes were up for tender? What ever happened to that land I wonder - could be interesting if they still own it. As for the development of GR - I believe someone posted an article on here recently that the council denied the plans to knock down the building and redevelop it - so looks like for now the GR building survives. I don’t know if there is any truth to the rumour of Arriva acquiring some land in Colindale. There has been major redevelopment in the area and someone could have saw all the land and thought the area could be suited for a bus garage, which in turn developed into said rumour. |
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Post by george on Apr 21, 2020 11:41:13 GMT
I wouldn't mind seeing GAL nabbing the 251 as that would bring them into Edgware - Its worse if Arriva lose the 221/340 as that'll cause less variety in Edgware. My hopes is the 221/340 are kept and 251 when its tender comes in 2 years goes off to GAL to bring them into the area. Although overall I don't really mind where the 251 ends up. Arriva could even nab the 251 - that could quite possibly be the most competitive tender around Edgware - Even Sullivan Buses or Uno as long shot outsiders - the routes going east seem to have been most vulnerable - e.g. the 232. Most other routes going westwards can only be a fight between Metroline and RATP. I think the only area GAL hasn't fully got to yet is further over NW London though - of course in the more eastern part of NW they have the 36 & 232 scraping the area - but not much of a presence overall. I would also like some more GAL in North West London as it would be nice to have so more variety, I was hopeful that Go Ahead were the outsiders for the 139 but in the end it wasn't to be, I would imagine the 139 is easier to run from a garage at the northern end. I think the third bidder for the 139 would have been TT from X. |
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Post by rif153 on Apr 21, 2020 12:03:16 GMT
I would also like some more GAL in North West London as it would be nice to have so more variety, I was hopeful that Go Ahead were the outsiders for the 139 but in the end it wasn't to be, I would imagine the 139 is easier to run from a garage at the northern end. I think the third bidder for the 139 would have been TT from X. Yeah probably would have been as they could have done changeovers and meal reliefs at Baker Street like they do for the 13. |
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Post by VWH1414 on Apr 21, 2020 13:04:21 GMT
As shocking as GR sometimes was it is a shame they are gone now - I reckon a little bit of a fix up on maintenance schedules and maybe some investment into the garage could've seen a better operation - but overall Arriva probably didn't deem it as worth it - with the 142/258 loss to RATP being the final straw. But also I thought I saw on here around late 2017/early 2018 time that Arriva had acquired some land in Colindale around the time the 268/288/303/H routes were up for tender? What ever happened to that land I wonder - could be interesting if they still own it. As for the development of GR - I believe someone posted an article on here recently that the council denied the plans to knock down the building and redevelop it - so looks like for now the GR building survives. I don’t know if there is any truth to the rumour of Arriva acquiring some land in Colindale. There has been major redevelopment in the area and someone could have saw all the land and thought the area could be suited for a bus garage, which in turn developed into said rumour. Thats what I was thinking - but iirc one of the Arriva lot on the forum mentioned it. Either way they definitely don't seem to have the land anymore. |
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Post by richard on Apr 21, 2020 13:11:07 GMT
As shocking as GR sometimes was it is a shame they are gone now - I reckon a little bit of a fix up on maintenance schedules and maybe some investment into the garage could've seen a better operation - but overall Arriva probably didn't deem it as worth it - with the 142/258 loss to RATP being the final straw. But also I thought I saw on here around late 2017/early 2018 time that Arriva had acquired some land in Colindale around the time the 268/288/303/H routes were up for tender? What ever happened to that land I wonder - could be interesting if they still own it. As for the development of GR - I believe someone posted an article on here recently that the council denied the plans to knock down the building and redevelop it - so looks like for now the GR building survives. I don’t know if there is any truth to the rumour of Arriva acquiring some land in Colindale. There has been major redevelopment in the area and someone could have saw all the land and thought the area could be suited for a bus garage, which in turn developed into said rumour. I do seem to recall a storage/outsation in the borehamwood area. There was some withdrawn ex BN DLAs and VLAs stored there but I think it's gone now. |
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Post by VWH1414 on Apr 21, 2020 13:33:13 GMT
I don’t know if there is any truth to the rumour of Arriva acquiring some land in Colindale. There has been major redevelopment in the area and someone could have saw all the land and thought the area could be suited for a bus garage, which in turn developed into said rumour. I do seem to recall a storage/outsation in the borehamwood area. There was some withdrawn ex BN DLAs and VLAs stored there but I think it's gone now. That was sold back in 2015 - Never used as an outstation but more just storage - The W/Y reg DLAs and some of the earlier withdrawn DWs went there before being scrapped/sold on. |
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Post by ServerKing on Apr 21, 2020 18:05:09 GMT
I do seem to recall a storage/outsation in the borehamwood area. There was some withdrawn ex BN DLAs and VLAs stored there but I think it's gone now. That was sold back in 2015 - Never used as an outstation but more just storage - The W/Y reg DLAs and some of the earlier withdrawn DWs went there before being scrapped/sold on. All of the buses there were either sold on (some DW's and DLAs went to Hemel Hempstead / High Wycombe), or scrapped. A few more buses moved to Edmonton, but a lot has been cleared out now. It was near the one way system as you come into Borehamwood, near the petrol station. |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Apr 25, 2020 12:36:54 GMT
Won’t disagree with you there. Unfortunately that part of London has become a two horse race between Metroline and RATP with the double whammy of First selling up to Metroline and Arriva GR closing. At least Abellio has expanded in the West London area to partly fill in the void left by First but at the moment haven’t really seem to get that far north of the A40. Unfortunately other companies can only take a nibble on those routes in that part of London like GAL with the 232. In the future, Arriva could be weird sight in Edgware. Both 221 and 340 are vulnerable to Arriva losing them, especially 340 as they have to compete with both Metroline and RATP not needing ferry vehicles for their drivers as that passes a number of their garages along the route. At least the 221 has WN which makes it a more even playing field for that route I wouldn't mind seeing GAL nabbing the 251 as that would bring them into Edgware - Its worse if Arriva lose the 221/340 as that'll cause less variety in Edgware. My hopes is the 221/340 are kept and 251 when its tender comes in 2 years goes off to GAL to bring them into the area. Although overall I don't really mind where the 251 ends up. Arriva could even nab the 251 - that could quite possibly be the most competitive tender around Edgware - Even Sullivan Buses or Uno as long shot outsiders - the routes going east seem to have been most vulnerable - e.g. the 232. Most other routes going westwards can only be a fight between Metroline and RATP. I think the only area GAL hasn't fully got to yet is further over NW London though - of course in the more eastern part of NW they have the 36 & 232 scraping the area - but not much of a presence overall. Other ways GA could reach Edgware would be by eventually winning route 221 or even the imminent (for Edgware) route 384. |
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Post by VWH1414 on Apr 25, 2020 12:54:38 GMT
I wouldn't mind seeing GAL nabbing the 251 as that would bring them into Edgware - Its worse if Arriva lose the 221/340 as that'll cause less variety in Edgware. My hopes is the 221/340 are kept and 251 when its tender comes in 2 years goes off to GAL to bring them into the area. Although overall I don't really mind where the 251 ends up. Arriva could even nab the 251 - that could quite possibly be the most competitive tender around Edgware - Even Sullivan Buses or Uno as long shot outsiders - the routes going east seem to have been most vulnerable - e.g. the 232. Most other routes going westwards can only be a fight between Metroline and RATP. I think the only area GAL hasn't fully got to yet is further over NW London though - of course in the more eastern part of NW they have the 36 & 232 scraping the area - but not much of a presence overall. Other ways GA could reach Edgware would be by eventually winning route 221 or even the imminent (for Edgware) route 384. I have a feeling the 221 and 384 will stay where they are - but imo when the 251 comes up in 2 years I feel it could be anyones game. Wouldn't mind seeing GAL on it with some SEes and then Arriva keeping the 221 with some E400MMCs like they have started ordering, with some electric DEMs for the 384 when it comes up in a few years time  . That way we can keep a nice mix of garages around Edgware, and bring NP into the mix to make it something like this - AD, BT, EW, NP, ON, PB, WN. Similarly at Mill Hill you would then have 6 different garages, with a different one on every single route - 114 (Metroline UX), 186 (Metroline HD), 221 (Arriva WN), 240 (Metroline EW), 251 (Go Ahead NP), 302 (Metroline AC), 303 (London Sovereign BT). Would certainly liven up my area a little bit - only GAL route I can really experience currently is the 232. |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Apr 25, 2020 13:18:30 GMT
Other ways GA could reach Edgware would be by eventually winning route 221 or even the imminent (for Edgware) route 384. I have a feeling the 221 and 384 will stay where they are - but imo when the 251 comes up in 2 years I feel it could be anyones game. Wouldn't mind seeing GAL on it with some SEes and then Arriva keeping the 221 with some E400MMCs like they have started ordering, with some electric DEMs for the 384 when it comes up in a few years time . That way we can keep a nice mix of garages around Edgware, and bring NP into the mix to make it something like this - AD, BT, EW, NP, ON, PB, WN. Similarly at Mill Hill you would then have 6 different garages, with a different one on every single route - 114 (Metroline UX), 186 (Metroline HD), 221 (Arriva WN), 240 (Metroline EW), 251 (Go Ahead NP), 302 (Metroline AC), 303 (London Sovereign BT). Would certainly liven up my area a little bit - only GAL route I can really experience currently is the 232. Out of routes 221 & 384, route 221 is good at WN not just because it passes WN but it terminates so nearby, at Turnpike Lane. The electric buses for route 384 might be BEMs instead. |
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Post by VWH1414 on Apr 25, 2020 14:23:52 GMT
I have a feeling the 221 and 384 will stay where they are - but imo when the 251 comes up in 2 years I feel it could be anyones game. Wouldn't mind seeing GAL on it with some SEes and then Arriva keeping the 221 with some E400MMCs like they have started ordering, with some electric DEMs for the 384 when it comes up in a few years time . That way we can keep a nice mix of garages around Edgware, and bring NP into the mix to make it something like this - AD, BT, EW, NP, ON, PB, WN. Similarly at Mill Hill you would then have 6 different garages, with a different one on every single route - 114 (Metroline UX), 186 (Metroline HD), 221 (Arriva WN), 240 (Metroline EW), 251 (Go Ahead NP), 302 (Metroline AC), 303 (London Sovereign BT). Would certainly liven up my area a little bit - only GAL route I can really experience currently is the 232. Out of routes 221 & 384, route 221 is good at WN not just because it passes WN but it terminates so nearby, at Turnpike Lane. The electric buses for route 384 might be BEMs instead. Ideally the 221 needs a garage mid route (Like FY was) but sadly their isn't one - WN do struggle but they do good enough, I think any other operator/garage would struggle more on it. |
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Post by kmkcheng on Apr 25, 2020 15:13:12 GMT
Out of routes 221 & 384, route 221 is good at WN not just because it passes WN but it terminates so nearby, at Turnpike Lane. The electric buses for route 384 might be BEMs instead. Ideally the 221 needs a garage mid route (Like FY was) but sadly their isn't one - WN do struggle but they do good enough, I think any other operator/garage would struggle more on it. One advantage that Arriva did have with the 221 but is now gone is the North Finchley shorts it used to have. Now that the whole service runs to Edgware, it makes it a more attractive route for Metroline or RATP to try and take off Arriva |
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Post by uakari on May 5, 2020 18:50:26 GMT
Whoever used to run route 13 did a better job of it than Tower Transit are doing with it (would it be possible to run it any worse?).
Route 274 has been run by Metroline for as long as I can remember, but I want them to lose it because it's so unreliable and I think they're complacent about it, with buses always bunching and huge gaps, plus curtailments all the time short of the terminus. This has got even worse since the frequency was reduced from every 7-8 to every 12 minutes, which I had hoped would make it more reliable. Instead, you often find yourself waiting 24 or 36 minutes, and when one finally does turn up, it's only going as far Copenhagen Street or Baker Street. Metroline seem to run other routes reasonably well, so why not the 274?
Since the Baker Street roadworks finished there is really far less of an excuse for this unreliability on the 274, and I think a lot of the responsibility does lie with the drivers, because I've seen two or sometimes three buses depart the Angel stand in quick succession - should be no reason for that, even if the controller is off the ball. Plus most of the drivers on that route are really surly, especially if any passenger has the temerity to point out just how long they've been waiting (sorry to anyone who drives the 274, but it's true).
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Post by 10121ddo on May 5, 2020 18:55:49 GMT
167/462 back to Go-Ahead London not if it meant they retendered them with streetlites! |
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. That way we can keep a nice mix of garages around Edgware, and bring NP into the mix to make it something like this - AD, BT, EW, NP, ON, PB, WN. Similarly at Mill Hill you would then have 6 different garages, with a different one on every single route - 114 (Metroline UX), 186 (Metroline HD), 221 (Arriva WN), 240 (Metroline EW), 251 (Go Ahead NP), 302 (Metroline AC), 303 (London Sovereign BT). Would certainly liven up my area a little bit - only GAL route I can really experience currently is the 232.
