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Post by LK65EBO on May 4, 2020 13:37:26 GMT
I wish the N97 still went all the way down to Sunbury.
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Post by ronnie on May 4, 2020 23:02:19 GMT
Here's my take, trying not to get carried away too much, but couldn't help but to get slightly adventurous at times 😂 I may have been inspired by other people in places I'll admit: • Definitely agree about making N20 to Barnet Hospital a permanent fixture. It's crossed my mind ages ago this would be a good shout and I'm actually quite chuffed to see it actually happening right now; • Make 145 and 123 fully 24hours [however also note the below for 145N, which may be affected]; • Work on 365N as apart from Romford & the hospital, there's literally no proper objectives on this route - it doesn't even reach Dagenham!! Either extend it or withdraw it completely. Perhaps 24h 174 is a better choice, but that'd require unwinding of the N86 - but perhaps that could be diverted to Upminster instead; I'm sure there is more.... But I can't recall everything and don't wish to get too carried away either I do think making the 174 as 24 hour service (or even extending the night service to Rainham) is a great choice with N86 diverted to Cranham either fully via the 248 or via the 165 to Hornchurch and then follow the 248 routeing to Cranham. I would keep the night 365 as it as even though it has a low usage as otherwise Collier Row area would lose their only night route.
I would also divert the N15 via Queens Hospital as a simple way to improve Hospital links night like you said about the N20 to Barnet Hospital.
Definitely agree on making the 123 & 145 fully 24 hour service on all nights of the week. A few ideas (I am not local so someone more appropriately placed can comment on exact demand etc): 1. 238 can become N238 and extended to Rainham Tesco via the 287 (simple one in my view) 2. Or, 145 can become 24 hours. Alternatively, N145 can become Stratford to to rainham (from stratford, follow 257 route till Leytonstone, then 145 till the 175 terminus at the southern end, then take a left (instead of right) and follow 287 route to rainham 3. Alternatively, would an N123 from Wood Green to Rainham work (just about 19 miles.....). 123 line of route till ilford then 145 as above 4. An N103 from Rainham to Upminster. So can take 103 line of route from Rainham till the A12, then the 365 till havering park, then using the 294 route to exit havering park till the collier row roundabout, then the 375 route till chase cross, then 499 till noak hill, then north hill drive - goodshays drive - gubbins lane - squirrel heath road - ardleigh green road - Emerson park station - north street - Upminster road - Upminster Bridge station - terminating at Upminster station. Slightly circular but connects a bunch of areas hitherto untouched by night buses Thoughts?
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Post by 15002 on May 5, 2020 4:55:42 GMT
I do think making the 174 as 24 hour service (or even extending the night service to Rainham) is a great choice with N86 diverted to Cranham either fully via the 248 or via the 165 to Hornchurch and then follow the 248 routeing to Cranham. I would keep the night 365 as it as even though it has a low usage as otherwise Collier Row area would lose their only night route.
I would also divert the N15 via Queens Hospital as a simple way to improve Hospital links night like you said about the N20 to Barnet Hospital.
Definitely agree on making the 123 & 145 fully 24 hour service on all nights of the week. A few ideas (I am not local so someone more appropriately placed can comment on exact demand etc): 1. 238 can become N238 and extended to Rainham Tesco via the 287 (simple one in my view) 2. Or, 145 can become 24 hours. Alternatively, N145 can become Stratford to to rainham (from stratford, follow 257 route till Leytonstone, then 145 till the 175 terminus at the southern end, then take a left (instead of right) and follow 287 route to rainham 3. Alternatively, would an N123 from Wood Green to Rainham work (just about 19 miles.....). 123 line of route till ilford then 145 as above 4. An N103 from Rainham to Upminster. So can take 103 line of route from Rainham till the A12, then the 365 till havering park, then using the 294 route to exit havering park till the collier row roundabout, then the 375 route till chase cross, then 499 till noak hill, then north hill drive - goodshays drive - gubbins lane - squirrel heath road - ardleigh green road - Emerson park station - north street - Upminster road - Upminster Bridge station - terminating at Upminster station. Slightly circular but connects a bunch of areas hitherto untouched by night buses Thoughts? Used to be a local so hope my opinion counts I’d say N123 would knock two birds with one stone with it simultaneously extending the 123 night service and getting rid of the night service for the 145 with a bonus of giving Rainham a proper night service. I like that a lot. Alternatively you could have an N165 whereby it follows the entire 165 route except when it gets to Romford Market, it then follows the 365 way towards Havering Park and visa versa when it’s heading towards Rainham, Abbey Wood Lane. To fix the broken link with Queen’s Hospital, divert the N86 towards Upminster via the 365 route towards Hornchurch and follow the 248 towards Upminster and make the 174 a 24 hours to retain links between Harold Hill and Romford plus giving Dagenham a 24 hours.
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Post by londonboy71 on May 5, 2020 8:22:39 GMT
Not every area in London needs a Night Bus. I'm sure if TFL.thought there was a demand it would respond. Places that dont have Night Service: North Harrow Pinner Northwood Rayners Lane Dagenham Hornchurch Upminster Ashford Staines Esher Sunbury Feltham. And more. Some of these had night service previously but were withdrawn for different reasons. (I mention places with no night service from Central London some do have a feeder service).
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Post by wirewiper on May 5, 2020 8:56:10 GMT
Not every area in London needs a Night Bus. I'm sure if TFL.thought there was a demand it would respond. Places that dont have Night Service: North Harrow Pinner Northwood Rayners Lane Dagenham Hornchurch Upminster Ashford Staines Esher Sunbury Feltham. And more. Some of these had night service previously but were withdrawn for different reasons. (I mention places with no night service from Central London some do have a feeder service). North Harrow and Pinner have weekend night service on the 183. Ashford, Staines, Esher and Sunbury are outside Greater London so TfL is not responsible for meeting any need for a night service in those areas. Operators are free of course to provide one commercially.
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Post by londonboy71 on May 5, 2020 10:44:34 GMT
Not every area in London needs a Night Bus. I'm sure if TFL.thought there was a demand it would respond. Places that dont have Night Service: North Harrow Pinner Northwood Rayners Lane Dagenham Hornchurch Upminster Ashford Staines Esher Sunbury Feltham. And more. Some of these had night service previously but were withdrawn for different reasons. (I mention places with no night service from Central London some do have a feeder service). North Harrow and Pinner have weekend night service on the 183. Ashford, Staines, Esher and Sunbury are outside Greater London so TfL is not responsible for meeting any need for a night service in those areas. Operators are free of course to provide one commercially.  I did say from Central London!! I'm sure N218 Kingston to Staines via Sunbury and Ashford would be well used
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Post by wirewiper on May 5, 2020 11:01:19 GMT
North Harrow and Pinner have weekend night service on the 183. Ashford, Staines, Esher and Sunbury are outside Greater London so TfL is not responsible for meeting any need for a night service in those areas. Operators are free of course to provide one commercially. I did say from Central London!! I'm sure N218 Kingston to Staines via Sunbury and Ashford would be well used That' as may be - but it is not TfL's responsibility to provide such a service. If no commercial operator is willing to provide such a service and Surrey County Council is not prepared to subsidise one, it won't operate.
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Post by ADH45258 on May 5, 2020 12:46:20 GMT
That seems like a sensible idea. In my experience the Willesden-Cricklewood corridor is overbussed with the 260, 266 and 460. I think that it would make sense to leave the 460 going as far as Cricklewood so it can continue to support the 245 and 460 on that section as well as allowing people to continue onto Cricklewood and if necessary, change to other routes there to reach their destination. I know I'd appreciate the ability to be at Barnet and have the choice of either getting a 460 to Cricklewood then a 266 or getting a 263/460 to North Finchley then a 112. TfL would see the corridor between Barnet & North Finchley as overbussed - I would just leave the 460 as it is because tfl may look at cutting the 263 at North Finchley which imo would be very bad as it has demand of which wouldn't be good. The 263 is doing fine, so I'd lay off the idea. If TFL wanted they could always extend it to Brent Park Superstores/St Raphael's North Regarding the capacity along this section, note that the 34/234/263 all use the same route between Whetstone and Barnet, which would be joined by 460 in this case. Maybe the 234 could take over the 383 routeing instead between Barnet and Whetstone, with perhaps the 382 diverting to serve Torrington Park?
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Post by ronnie on May 5, 2020 12:51:49 GMT
A few ideas (I am not local so someone more appropriately placed can comment on exact demand etc): 1. 238 can become N238 and extended to Rainham Tesco via the 287 (simple one in my view) 2. Or, 145 can become 24 hours. Alternatively, N145 can become Stratford to to rainham (from stratford, follow 257 route till Leytonstone, then 145 till the 175 terminus at the southern end, then take a left (instead of right) and follow 287 route to rainham 3. Alternatively, would an N123 from Wood Green to Rainham work (just about 19 miles.....). 123 line of route till ilford then 145 as above 4. An N103 from Rainham to Upminster. So can take 103 line of route from Rainham till the A12, then the 365 till havering park, then using the 294 route to exit havering park till the collier row roundabout, then the 375 route till chase cross, then 499 till noak hill, then north hill drive - goodshays drive - gubbins lane - squirrel heath road - ardleigh green road - Emerson park station - north street - Upminster road - Upminster Bridge station - terminating at Upminster station. Slightly circular but connects a bunch of areas hitherto untouched by night buses Thoughts? Used to be a local so hope my opinion counts I’d say N123 would knock two birds with one stone with it simultaneously extending the 123 night service and getting rid of the night service for the 145 with a bonus of giving Rainham a proper night service. I like that a lot. Alternatively you could have an N165 whereby it follows the entire 165 route except when it gets to Romford Market, it then follows the 365 way towards Havering Park and visa versa when it’s heading towards Rainham, Abbey Wood Lane. To fix the broken link with Queen’s Hospital, divert the N86 towards Upminster via the 365 route towards Hornchurch and follow the 248 towards Upminster and make the 174 a 24 hours to retain links between Harold Hill and Romford plus giving Dagenham a 24 hours. I’m increasingly veering around to that idea as well. Kills many birds with one stone The N103 is also something I like (from a paper route perspective!!!) but it is a touch circuitous. Not sure if punters would brave 1.5 hours from Oxford Circus to Romford market and then another roundabout journey to reach Rainham / Upminster - but it does link a lot of areas with no connections. I was almost tempted to make it a circular route!
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Post by LondonNorthern on May 5, 2020 15:59:16 GMT
North Harrow and Pinner have weekend night service on the 183. Ashford, Staines, Esher and Sunbury are outside Greater London so TfL is not responsible for meeting any need for a night service in those areas. Operators are free of course to provide one commercially.  I did say from Central London!! I'm sure N218 Kingston to Staines via Sunbury and Ashford would be well used There are sometimes problems with council funding, not sure about Surrey but Essex definitely had problems as the 167 was at risk. Possibly Surrey might be having financial problems as the 166 was at risk a few years back but who knows
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Post by vjaska on May 5, 2020 16:51:44 GMT
I did say from Central London!! I'm sure N218 Kingston to Staines via Sunbury and Ashford would be well used There are sometimes problems with council funding, not sure about Surrey but Essex definitely had problems as the 167 was at risk. Possibly Surrey might be having financial problems as the 166 was at risk a few years back but who knows All counties and the subsequent councils have funding issues - even then, I don't share the optimism of a N216 or N218 being used anywhere near as much as the 216 gets used unless there is a burgeoning night time economy around there - might benefit some shift workers but I suspect they may have different means of getting to work already
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Post by southlondonbus on May 5, 2020 17:16:54 GMT
I did say from Central London!! I'm sure N218 Kingston to Staines via Sunbury and Ashford would be well used There are sometimes problems with council funding, not sure about Surrey but Essex definitely had problems as the 167 was at risk. Possibly Surrey might be having financial problems as the 166 was at risk a few years back but who knows The 166, 216 and 465 were both considered at risk thou both didn't make it to consultation phase. Unlike the 167.
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Post by ADH45258 on May 5, 2020 22:27:05 GMT
There are sometimes problems with council funding, not sure about Surrey but Essex definitely had problems as the 167 was at risk. Possibly Surrey might be having financial problems as the 166 was at risk a few years back but who knows The 166, 216 and 465 were both considered at risk thou both didn't make it to consultation phase. Unlike the 167. It is quite surprising that the 465 has survived as a TFL route, given how far out of Greater London it goes. Leatherhead would seem a more natural terminus for a TFL route.
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Post by uakari on May 5, 2020 23:12:29 GMT
TfL would see the corridor between Barnet & North Finchley as overbussed - I would just leave the 460 as it is because tfl may look at cutting the 263 at North Finchley which imo would be very bad as it has demand of which wouldn't be good. The 263 is doing fine, so I'd lay off the idea. If TFL wanted they could always extend it to Brent Park Superstores/St Raphael's North Regarding the capacity along this section, note that the 34/234/263 all use the same route between Whetstone and Barnet, which would be joined by 460 in this case. Maybe the 234 could take over the 383 routeing instead between Barnet and Whetstone, with perhaps the 382 diverting to serve Torrington Park? I wouldn't like this because it would slow down the 234 a lot, which is currently the quickest/only way of getting from High Barnet to Friern Barnet and Muswell Hill. I also don't understand how the 383 could be diverted via Torrington Park without leaving the Summers Lane area without a bus service.
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Post by LondonNorthern on May 6, 2020 8:15:34 GMT
TfL would see the corridor between Barnet & North Finchley as overbussed - I would just leave the 460 as it is because tfl may look at cutting the 263 at North Finchley which imo would be very bad as it has demand of which wouldn't be good. The 263 is doing fine, so I'd lay off the idea. If TFL wanted they could always extend it to Brent Park Superstores/St Raphael's North Regarding the capacity along this section, note that the 34/234/263 all use the same route between Whetstone and Barnet, which would be joined by 460 in this case. Maybe the 234 could take over the 383 routeing instead between Barnet and Whetstone, with perhaps the 382 diverting to serve Torrington Park? Upon TFLs consultation of route 384 - at the top they said they were thinking of rerouting the 234 via Gloucester Road around New Barnet - imo it sounds like a good idea but it shouldn't take the 383s routing.
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