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Post by rmz19 on Jan 20, 2020 14:17:18 GMT
TFL have really sunk to a new low. They can't be serious?! What an utter joke. How is it justified that the SINGLE DECK 366 would cope between Beckton and Gallions Reach without at least one assisting route alongside?! Surely at least the 262 should remain for much needed support to the 366 between East Beckton and Beckton.
Personally I would reroute the 366 via Woolwich Manor Way to speed things up, leaving the 101 to serve Cyprus Station. The 262 could be curtailed to Gallions Reach at a push. However in general this change is completely unnecessary and pointless. Again one of many ideas that highlight TFL's ignorance and foolishness.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 20, 2020 14:22:45 GMT
Have the 241 and 325 replaced proposals previously in the Crossrail consualtion. I'm guessing the 241 extends over Connaught Bridge then the 330 wont now. Its seems to pay for more trendy Crossrail changes that Gallions Reach misses out. I may have been considered cutting the 101 and 366 back and giving the 262 a light freq increase. But to leave just the 366 seems very poor.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 14:38:36 GMT
Have the 241 and 325 replaced proposals previously in the Crossrail consualtion. I'm guessing the 241 extends over Connaught Bridge then the 330 wont now. Its seems to pay for more trendy Crossrail changes that Gallions Reach misses out. I may have been considered cutting the 101 and 366 back and giving the 262 a light freq increase. But to leave just the 366 seems very poor. 241 changes still go ahead when Crossrail opens but now extended and approaches from the opposite direction to the 330. The 330 will replace the 474 from Canning Town towards Connaught Bridge and the 474 covers the lost section of the 241 at Canning Town. Personally don't see there being a huge demand for buses services in the new development apart from to Custom House Station. |
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Post by rmz19 on Jan 20, 2020 15:26:46 GMT
Have the 241 and 325 replaced proposals previously in the Crossrail consualtion. I'm guessing the 241 extends over Connaught Bridge then the 330 wont now. Its seems to pay for more trendy Crossrail changes that Gallions Reach misses out. I may have been considered cutting the 101 and 366 back and giving the 262 a light freq increase. But to leave just the 366 seems very poor. 241 changes still go ahead when Crossrail opens but now extended and approaches from the opposite direction to the 330. The 330 will replace the 474 from Canning Town towards Connaught Bridge and the 474 covers the lost section of the 241 at Canning Town. Personally don't see there being a huge demand for buses services in the new development apart from to Custom House Station. So if I'm right, when Crossrail opens the rerouted 241 to Royal Wharf will be removed and curtailed to Custom House, with the 474 rerouted to cover the lost section of the 241 to Canning Town. The 330 will then be extended to cover the lost section of the 474 to Silvertown. That would result in the 241 being very short, there certainly would be scope for extending the 241 at either of its termini. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 15:37:03 GMT
241 changes still go ahead when Crossrail opens but now extended and approaches from the opposite direction to the 330. The 330 will replace the 474 from Canning Town towards Connaught Bridge and the 474 covers the lost section of the 241 at Canning Town. Personally don't see there being a huge demand for buses services in the new development apart from to Custom House Station. So if I'm right, when Crossrail opens the rerouted 241 to Royal Wharf will be removed and curtailed to Custom House, with the 474 rerouted to cover the lost section of the 241 to Canning Town. The 330 will then be extended to cover the lost section of the 474 to Silvertown. That would result in the 241 being very short, there certainly would be scope for extending the 241 at either of its termini. 241 will be Stratford City to Royal Wharf was going to be Custom House but will extended over Connaught Bridge so not as short as it was going to be. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Jan 20, 2020 16:05:26 GMT
I don’t think TfL are interested in serving out of town retail parks these days. They probably think the shopping centre should pay them to run the routes that bring in the customers.
Similar proposed approach at Bluewater, reduce to being served by just one bus route.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 20, 2020 16:24:05 GMT
The 241 was going to go to Here East but I was scrapped (sensibly as the 388 copes ok) so an extension from custom House is good and will provide a feeder from the south aswell.
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mr24
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Post by mr24 on Jan 20, 2020 17:25:36 GMT
I suspect that the period for which the 366 will struggle to cope is going to be fairly short.
People will quickly realise that having to wait an extra 10 minutes in Beckton to cram onto an absolutely rammed single-decker is a thorough waste of their life, and they will all switch to driving (or Ubers if they can't drive/don't have a car) to the retail park instead. Before we know it the demand will indeed be only for 4bph and TFL will think they have done a good job...
In reality, this complete slashing of bus services is just overkill. Curtailing the 101 would be reasonable, but doing the same to the 262 will break links and overcrowd the 366 to an extent that people will just give up on buses.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 17:32:27 GMT
I suspect that the period for which the 366 will struggle to cope is going to be fairly short. People will quickly realise that having to wait an extra 10 minutes in Beckton to cram onto an absolutely rammed single-decker is a thorough waste of their life, and they will all switch to driving (or Ubers if they can't drive/don't have a car) to the retail park instead. Before we know it the demand will indeed be only for 4bph and TFL will think they have done a good job... In reality, this complete slashing of bus services is just overkill. Curtailing the 101 would be reasonable, but doing the same to the 262 will break links and overcrowd the 366 to an extent that people will just give up on buses. Not too sure how many will switch to Uber as Newham does have a fair amount of low income residents, will also have a negative effect in staff trying to get to work at Gallions Reach. How does TfL get usage date? It knows where people board but cant have accurate data for where passengers leave buses so for example cant be sure how busy a bus is from Redbridge when it arrives at Gallions Reach. Another thing that makes me laught is all the new housing that has just been built by Gallions Reach Station will be deprived of buses but the new developments elsewhere get the 241 and 325 plus the extended 330. |
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Post by greenboy on Jan 20, 2020 18:23:12 GMT
I don’t think TfL are interested in serving out of town retail parks these days. They probably think the shopping centre should pay them to run the routes that bring in the customers. Similar proposed approach at Bluewater, reduce to being served by just one bus route. The Bluewater changes are probably justified to be fair, inevitably shopping centres will have felt the pinch just like High Streets and apparently Gallions Reach has lost a bit of custom to Westfield at Stratford. The loss of the 101 would possibly have been justified but I think TfL might have to back track on the 262 proposal. |
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Post by ronnie on Jan 20, 2020 18:26:37 GMT
This is b***cks. I thought the cut was BY 4bph!
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jan 20, 2020 18:28:46 GMT
Now that I finally have some time to properly digest all of this  It's absurd they've actually decided to hack both the 101 and 262 back. The 366 is already overcrowded as it is, it's not being decked anytime soon either so I'm really lost as to what logic is at play here. Okay it'd be a lie to say the 262 and 101 are always carrying standing loads but they do carry healthy loads along that section. The figures also don't seem to have counted for the fact the 366 is already quite well loaded before it reaches East Beckton, so where exactly the space is coming from to scoop first the 262s passengers and then the 101s passengers is completely beyond me. If they're so insistent on going through with this then at least consider decking the 366, no matter what needs to be altered on the route to accommodate it. I find it hilarious they have the cheek to mention the 241 and 325 need to serve new developments while depriving all the developments around Gallions Reach in the process. It's also a bit ridiculous that they are removing buses from Gallions Reach, a place which prides itself on the high amount of free car parking it has. Well I know I'll soon always be driving there - currently I opt to take the bus if it's only a quick stop but I'm not going to put up with an overcrowded 366 when I can be in a comfortable car. Not to mention where on earth is all this space at Beckton Bus Station even coming from. The bus station is already full with just three routes, there's only three stands. One for the 173 with another two which are often shared by the 366 and 376 as they both share the same stop. The 104 might just be able to squeeze in at a push but there is no space at all for the 262 and 101 unless they completely change the layout of it allowing buses to loop at the eastern end of it, should that be allowed they could place a stand opposite the stop for routes towards East Ham. The only alternative I can think of is by making one route stand opposite the DLR station where there's a little recession to allow a single bus to park, but that will involve buses turning around at the roundabout by Savage Gardens. I find it hilarious they've chosen to extend the 325 out of all routes to the development at Beckton Park, I had to double check which end it was even being extended from! This must be on the road to becoming the only route in London to terminate in the exact same town that it started in despite serving four others. I wonder what poor sods will end up using it from Beckton Park to Beckton Sainsburys  I also assume the hope to send the 330 to Custom House is now completely dead in the water, so useless terminating that route at Pontoon Dock of all places. Now what exactly they plan to do with it in the future bemuses me because that part of the route is going to end up so lightly used TfL will come along and meddle with it again in some form or the other. By this point you might as well just send the 241 back to Canning Town and leave the 330 alone and extend that route somewhere else instead. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 18:31:16 GMT
I don’t think TfL are interested in serving out of town retail parks these days. They probably think the shopping centre should pay them to run the routes that bring in the customers. Similar proposed approach at Bluewater, reduce to being served by just one bus route. The Bluewater changes are probably justified to be fair, inevitably shopping centres will have felt the pinch just like High Streets and apparently Gallions Reach has lost a bit of custom to Westfield at Stratford. The loss of the 101 would possibly have been justified but I think TfL might have to back track on the 262 proposal. Gallions is my local shopping park and if anything it has got busier recently! Westfield opened in 2011 so think we would have seen a drop before now. If anything with West Ham now at Stratford it might put people off shopping there. The 262 will be pretty pointless as the whole route will be duplicated by other routes. |
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Post by vjaska on Jan 20, 2020 18:36:01 GMT
I don’t think TfL are interested in serving out of town retail parks these days. They probably think the shopping centre should pay them to run the routes that bring in the customers. Similar proposed approach at Bluewater, reduce to being served by just one bus route. The Bluewater changes are probably justified to be fair, inevitably shopping centres will have felt the pinch just like High Streets and apparently Gallions Reach has lost a bit of custom to Westfield at Stratford. The loss of the 101 would possibly have been justified but I think TfL might have to back track on the 262 proposal. The issue with the Bluewater proposal is the 96 can’t cope on its own due to the length and many traffic hotspots it hits nor can you simply increase its frequency. I myself have witnessed many instances of 96’s running late with the 492 assisting with heavy loads of it own. Like Gallions Reach, losing one route you can understand but two is ridiculous in both Bluewater & Gallions Reach. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 18:39:10 GMT
Now that I finally have some time to properly digest all of this It's absurd they've actually decided to hack both the 101 and 262 back. The 366 is already overcrowded as it is, it's not being decked anytime soon either so I'm really lost as to what logic is at play here. Okay it'd be a lie to say the 262 and 101 are always carrying standing loads but they do carry healthy loads along that section. The figures also don't seem to have counted for the fact the 366 is already quite well loaded before it reaches East Beckton, so where exactly the space is coming from to scoop first the 262s passengers and then the 101s passengers is completely beyond me. If they're so insistent on going through with this then at least consider decking the 366, no matter what needs to be altered on the route to accommodate it. I find it hilarious they have the cheek to mention the 241 and 325 need to serve new developments while depriving all the developments around Gallions Reach in the process. It's also a bit ridiculous that they are removing buses from Gallions Reach, a place which prides itself on the high amount of free car parking it has. Well I know I'll soon always be driving there - currently I opt to take the bus if it's only a quick stop but I'm not going to put up with an overcrowded 366 when I can be in a comfortable car. Not to mention where on earth is all this space at Beckton Bus Station even coming from. The bus station is already full with just three routes, there's only three stands. One for the 173 with another two which are often shared by the 366 and 376 as they both share the same stop. The 104 might just be able to squeeze in at a push but there is no space at all for the 262 and 101 unless they completely change the layout of it allowing buses to loop at the eastern end of it, should that be allowed they could place a stand opposite the stop for routes towards East Ham. The only alternative I can think of is by making one route stand opposite the DLR station where there's a little recession to allow a single bus to park, but that will involve buses turning around at the roundabout by Savage Gardens. I find it hilarious they've chosen to extend the 325 out of all routes to the development at Beckton Park, I had to double check which end it was even being extended from! This must be on the road to becoming the only route in London to terminate in the exact same town that it started in despite serving four others. I wonder what poor sods will end up using it from Beckton Park to Beckton Sainsburys I also assume the hope to send the 330 to Custom House is now completely dead in the water, so useless terminating that route at Pontoon Dock of all places. Now what exactly they plan to do with it in the future bemuses me because that part of the route is going to end up so lightly used TfL will come along and meddle with it again in some form or the other. By this point you might as well just send the 241 back to Canning Town and leave the 330 alone and extend that route somewhere else instead. I really like that 241 idea much better than the 330 and maintains the old link from Freemasons Road via a new routing. |
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It's absurd they've actually decided to hack both the 101 and 262 back. The 366 is already overcrowded as it is, it's not being decked anytime soon either so I'm really lost as to what logic is at play here. Okay it'd be a lie to say the 262 and 101 are always carrying standing loads but they do carry healthy loads along that section. The figures also don't seem to have counted for the fact the 366 is already quite well loaded before it reaches East Beckton, so where exactly the space is coming from to scoop first the 262s passengers and then the 101s passengers is completely beyond me. If they're so insistent on going through with this then at least consider decking the 366, no matter what needs to be altered on the route to accommodate it. I find it hilarious they have the cheek to mention the 241 and 325 need to serve new developments while depriving all the developments around Gallions Reach in the process. It's also a bit ridiculous that they are removing buses from Gallions Reach, a place which prides itself on the high amount of free car parking it has. Well I know I'll soon always be driving there - currently I opt to take the bus if it's only a quick stop but I'm not going to put up with an overcrowded 366 when I can be in a comfortable car.
