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Post by routew15 on Jan 20, 2020 18:48:04 GMT
I am actually struggling to see how this is going to work.
Stand space at Beckton Bus Station is currently underused (at 16.5bph) but it will need to hold over double the amount of buses (*39bph during the peak) than it currently does today should the changes be implemented.
* this includes the proposed 376 increase and diverted 104
EDIT - I now see @eastlondoner piped me to the post on this and makes a good point
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Post by rmz19 on Jan 20, 2020 19:44:49 GMT
So if I'm right, when Crossrail opens the rerouted 241 to Royal Wharf will be removed and curtailed to Custom House, with the 474 rerouted to cover the lost section of the 241 to Canning Town. The 330 will then be extended to cover the lost section of the 474 to Silvertown. That would result in the 241 being very short, there certainly would be scope for extending the 241 at either of its termini. 241 will be Stratford City to Royal Wharf was going to be Custom House but will extended over Connaught Bridge so not as short as it was going to be. Ah ok understood. Got a little confused.com. For some reason I was under the impression that the 241 extension to Royal Wharf will be temporary and will be removed once Crossrail opens. I suppose the 241 will have some added length to it. Though I believe there is still scope for an extension further from Stratford City. |
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Post by rmz19 on Jan 20, 2020 19:56:13 GMT
I find it hilarious they've chosen to extend the 325 out of all routes to the development at Beckton Park, I had to double check which end it was even being extended from! This must be on the road to becoming the only route in London to terminate in the exact same town that it started in despite serving four others. I wonder what poor sods will end up using it from Beckton Park to Beckton Sainsburys  Completely agree regarding the 325. It's a pointless extension that would serve little purpose. The 300 and 376 already are in close proximity to Beckton Park, the latter even more so. So the 325 is not needed there. If this will be the case then the 325 may as well be a circular route! Just look at the current route on a map and visualise how it would appear after the extension  |
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Post by greenboy on Jan 20, 2020 20:24:44 GMT
The Bluewater changes are probably justified to be fair, inevitably shopping centres will have felt the pinch just like High Streets and apparently Gallions Reach has lost a bit of custom to Westfield at Stratford. The loss of the 101 would possibly have been justified but I think TfL might have to back track on the 262 proposal. Gallions is my local shopping park and if anything it has got busier recently! Westfield opened in 2011 so think we would have seen a drop before now. If anything with West Ham now at Stratford it might put people off shopping there. The 262 will be pretty pointless as the whole route will be duplicated by other routes. I'm only an occasional visitor to Gallions during the week when it's fairly quiet, presumably much busier weekends? One of the staff said they've lost a lot of custom to Westfield. If these changes do happen it will probably be a prelude to the 262 being axed completely. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 20:34:47 GMT
I never realised the 101 and 366 duplicated each other via Cyprus until today! I know its not ideal but what about curtailing the 366 at Gallions Reach and maintain the 101 link?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 20:38:10 GMT
I find it hilarious they've chosen to extend the 325 out of all routes to the development at Beckton Park, I had to double check which end it was even being extended from! This must be on the road to becoming the only route in London to terminate in the exact same town that it started in despite serving four others. I wonder what poor sods will end up using it from Beckton Park to Beckton Sainsburys Completely agree regarding the 325. It's a pointless extension that would serve little purpose. The 300 and 376 already are in close proximity to Beckton Park, the latter even more so. So the 325 is not needed there. If this will be the case then the 325 may as well be a circular route! Just look at the current route on a map and visualise how it would appear after the extension Just imagine the confusion when passengers see the destination then go via Custom House, Plaistow, Forest Gate and East Ham  |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jan 20, 2020 20:39:43 GMT
I never realised the 101 and 366 duplicated each other via Cyprus until today! I know its not ideal but what about curtailing the 366 at Gallions Reach and maintain the 101 link? I think the 366 is important going Beckton as its the only link that actually goes North West of Beckton. It'd probably be the worst to cut of them all due to broken links however by no means should also have been the sole route remaining. I think the 101 being curtailed alone would have been the most acceptable with the 262 left as it is. |
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Post by busaholic on Jan 20, 2020 21:00:15 GMT
Welcome to my world I'm not buying that changing shopping habits have forced a drop from 22bph to 4bph - I could be more sympathetic if only the 101 was cut back & leaving the 262 alone but to now leave a lengthy section to just the overloaded single decker 366 is barmy. Must be a mistake in the consultation as the 366 runs every 10 minutes which makes it 6bph. Admittedly it’s still a big drop from 22bph though. Edit: I wonder if the 4bph figure is the bare minimum they have worked out for that section of route but they will kindly continue the 6bph to give the passengers some spare capacity. This is classic TfL jargon, or 'doublespeak' as George Orwell called it. Say the section of route only needs 4 bph and then be super-generous and continue to run 6 bph (rather than 22bph.) The proles should be grateful! |
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Post by DE20106 on Jan 20, 2020 21:05:53 GMT
Im gonna assume that remark was sarcasm!  Yes what a stupid proposal, get rid of two DD routes and leave a SD one. How about cut the 366 back to East Beckton and then if they really need to do another cut the 101 back to Beckton? At least that leaves the 262 which is (as near as makes no difference) the same frequency and gives additional decker capacity. The 101/262/366 will face stiff competition I think. @dannyb I hope you complain about this as strongly as busoccultation did about the 128 change. The 128 shows that it can be done. Tbh with the mayor election so close to this consultation I can’t see this particular 101/262/366 bit going through without some alterations. Oh yeah just cover it over with a little distraction with increasing the 376. Coincidence that it was the first thing mentioned in it as like a little headline?? I definitely think not. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jan 20, 2020 21:23:05 GMT
Im gonna assume that remark was sarcasm! Yes what a stupid proposal, get rid of two DD routes and leave a SD one. How about cut the 366 back to East Beckton and then if they really need to do another cut the 101 back to Beckton? At least that leaves the 262 which is (as near as makes no difference) the same frequency and gives additional decker capacity. The 101/262/366 will face stiff competition I think. @dannyb I hope you complain about this as strongly as busoccultation did about the 128 change. The 128 shows that it can be done. Tbh with the mayor election so close to this consultation I can’t see this particular 101/262/366 bit going through without some alterations. Oh yeah just cover it over with a little distraction with increasing the 376. Coincidence that it was the first thing mentioned in it as like a little headline?? I definitely think not. I mentioned earlier, but the 366 would be the worst to cut back out of all three of them. That's probably why its remaining although someone didn't get the memo that it was a single decker route. It being cut will completely cut off most of Beckton from Barking and Ilford, whereas the 101 will theoretically still have the 474 for a large portion of it and the 262 does cross the 325 at Plaistow providing the link to East Beckton further up it. The 101 would be the least of the evils to cut I believe due to the long parallel it has with the 474. Sadly I think this is a done deal unlike the 128, the 128 change was so minor that they could probably make its saving by slashing a bus off another route elsewhere in London while these changes are very much interlinked with each other, the 325 and 241 extensions seem to be getting their funds from the reduced 262 and 101. I hope I don't jinx anything but I wouldn't be surprised to see TfL come back to look at the 101, its long parallel with the 474, put together with the 474s relatively short length at 5 miles could make it quite appealing to extend the 474 to Wanstead and get rid of the 101 altogether. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 21:26:08 GMT
Im gonna assume that remark was sarcasm! Yes what a stupid proposal, get rid of two DD routes and leave a SD one. How about cut the 366 back to East Beckton and then if they really need to do another cut the 101 back to Beckton? At least that leaves the 262 which is (as near as makes no difference) the same frequency and gives additional decker capacity. The 101/262/366 will face stiff competition I think. @dannyb I hope you complain about this as strongly as busoccultation did about the 128 change. The 128 shows that it can be done. Tbh with the mayor election so close to this consultation I can’t see this particular 101/262/366 bit going through without some alterations. Oh yeah just cover it over with a little distraction with increasing the 376. Coincidence that it was the first thing mentioned in it as like a little headline?? I definitely think not. I mentioned earlier, but the 366 would be the worst to cut back out of all three of them. That's probably why its remaining although someone didn't get the memo that it was a single decker route. It being cut will completely cut off most of Beckton from Barking and Ilford, whereas the 101 will theoretically still have the 474 for a large portion of it and the 262 does cross the 325 at Plaistow providing the link to East Beckton further up it. The 101 would be the least of the evils to cut I believe due to the long parallel it has with the 474. Sadly I think this is a done deal unlike the 128, the 128 change was so minor that they could probably make its saving by slashing a bus off another route elsewhere in London while these changes are very much interlinked with each other, the 325 and 241 extensions seem to be getting their funds from the reduced 262 and 101. I hope I don't jinx anything but I wouldn't be surprised to see TfL come back to look at the 101, its long parallel with the 474, put together with the 474s relatively short length at 5 miles could make it quite appealing to extend the 474 to Wanstead and get rid of the 101 altogether. And to think ironically the 474 was extended to Manor Park to support the 101 /104 a few years ago - How things change. |
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Post by busoccultation on Jan 20, 2020 21:32:34 GMT
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 20, 2020 21:37:46 GMT
It's changes as bad as these is why I get annoyed when existing buses are not used on contracts. As much as it can be dressed up its the operator who picks up the cost, undoubtedly the cost per mile increases with new bus contracts. The 23 and C3 spring to mind. Also I doubt all the buses from the 174 are needed on the 256 and part 365 so the 174 could still have saved a few expensive electric buses being needed for it.
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Post by DE20106 on Jan 20, 2020 21:39:05 GMT
Im gonna assume that remark was sarcasm! Yes what a stupid proposal, get rid of two DD routes and leave a SD one. How about cut the 366 back to East Beckton and then if they really need to do another cut the 101 back to Beckton? At least that leaves the 262 which is (as near as makes no difference) the same frequency and gives additional decker capacity. The 101/262/366 will face stiff competition I think. @dannyb I hope you complain about this as strongly as busoccultation did about the 128 change. The 128 shows that it can be done. Tbh with the mayor election so close to this consultation I can’t see this particular 101/262/366 bit going through without some alterations. Oh yeah just cover it over with a little distraction with increasing the 376. Coincidence that it was the first thing mentioned in it as like a little headline?? I definitely think not. I mentioned earlier, but the 366 would be the worst to cut back out of all three of them. That's probably why its remaining although someone didn't get the memo that it was a single decker route. It being cut will completely cut off most of Beckton from Barking and Ilford, whereas the 101 will theoretically still have the 474 for a large portion of it and the 262 does cross the 325 at Plaistow providing the link to East Beckton further up it. The 101 would be the least of the evils to cut I believe due to the long parallel it has with the 474. Sadly I think this is a done deal unlike the 128, the 128 change was so minor that they could probably make its saving by slashing a bus off another route elsewhere in London while these changes are very much interlinked with each other, the 325 and 241 extensions seem to be getting their funds from the reduced 262 and 101. I hope I don't jinx anything but I wouldn't be surprised to see TfL come back to look at the 101, its long parallel with the 474, put together with the 474s relatively short length at 5 miles could make it quite appealing to extend the 474 to Wanstead and get rid of the 101 altogether. I don’t think it’s a done deal at all, I think we all thought the 428 and 492 were done deals but they were forced back. I think if enough people cry about only leaving a SD route on that stretch they’ll rethink it. TfL seem to be a little more receptive to consultations at the moment, no surprise due to the mayor election. They dropped the 223 and 186 curtailment, dropped the 128, dropped the 428 and 492, went back on the 207/607 (although it never came out to oppose in the first place). My prediction will be the 325 or 241 (probably the former) extensions get dropped (or the frequency increase gets dropped) for the 262 to be left as it is. The 101 as you say can probably bite the bullet. Oooor (*plot twist!!*) the 101 and 262 both get cut but the 325 is also extended at the EB,S end to Beckton to assist the 366 (maybe not lol) |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 20, 2020 22:12:16 GMT
We don't know the 428/492 have been dropped, just that more time is needed to assess the results. That has been said before when the number of responses is high only for the changes to go ahead.
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Yes what a stupid proposal, get rid of two DD routes and leave a SD one. How about cut the 366 back to East Beckton and then if they really need to do another cut the 101 back to Beckton? At least that leaves the 262 which is (as near as makes no difference) the same frequency and gives additional decker capacity. The 101/262/366 will face stiff competition I think. @dannyb I hope you complain about this as strongly as busoccultation did about the 128 change. The 128 shows that it can be done. Tbh with the mayor election so close to this consultation I can’t see this particular 101/262/366 bit going through without some alterations. 