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Post by Green Kitten on Sept 19, 2020 9:03:42 GMT
Second lockdown... Will it be 2 weeks? Fool me once.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2020 9:38:25 GMT
The government knew a lot about the Virus when they implemented the initial lockdown, plus understanding hasn't developed a whole lot since then except for the addition of a few extra symptoms. The issue being the information that we have about the virus is what makes a lockdown the most effective. You need to reduce contact as much as possible and a lockdown is the most effective means of doing this. The government say that it's a last resort, well it obviously is because there's not anything else that you can do afterwards except employ martial law. The obvious issue is that the virus isn't going to decide that one day it wants to give up spreading and that we will be able to come out of lockdown. The scientists need to develop a cure to eradicate the disease in the form of a vaccine, until then the virus will continue to spread. Once rules are relaxed it will spread again because people are going to be in close contact - there's no way around this until there's a way to keep the virus at bay. For this reason the testing system needs to be robust, which the government don't seem to be interested in doing. All well and good opening testing centres but it's pointless if there's not enough labs for the samples to be processed in. I did get notified that they would like me to work in one of the coronavirus testing labs to run samples, however it was all the way in Milton Keynes and this is the closest they have to London. With labs far and few between it's impossible to run tests on the scale that we need. A huge issue now is people just are not following social distancing guidelines, people are trying their best but buses and tubes are a breeding ground for it whether people are wearing masks or not. The Eat out to Help Out scheme, while doing wonders for the economy did result in an increase in cases, especially in areas where you have a high population of migrants who like going to restaurants where you can get food cooked from their countries in the most authentic way that may not be possible in a house. Another problem we are now facing is the development of the vaccine, the vaccine is vital. However you cannot rush a vaccine, especially the way they are employing this trial. Currently they are giving people doses and checking if they develop the virus on the odd fact that they are exposed and then checking antibody count to see if antibodies are being produced. This system works but will not provide a definitive answer soon enough, and if it does it needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. You can't expect people to take a vaccine that's not been proven and therefore people naturally will not take it. Couple that with the findings today where only 6% of the population have antibodies and that they only last 2-3 months max and it's very grim reading at the moment with the track and trace system as well as testing all up the spout alongside the inability of the government to give out a clear message over new guidance and the population ignoring the little bit of guidance that has been clear from day one. As one expert said earlier, you need all these to function - it's no good having just one or two of these things working. As for London itself, it's beginning to rise fast with one doctor in a East London hospital reporting hospital admissions rapidly increasing including people requiring ventilators - in his own words, he said there is signs that East London is beginning it's second wave as evidenced by the fact that the 3 boroughs with the highest rates are in East London with Redbridge unfortunately currently leading that table. The mayor has said yesterday that a meeting will held about potentially introducing similar restrictions to Merseyside & the North East of England in London - mainly, hospitality to shut by 10, no mixing between houses, public transport just for essential travel, etc. I agree its looking pretty bleak in east London. I can tell you now that even if household mixing restrictions come into force they will be ignored here! even during the last lockdown people carried on as normal , its a very much fingers up to the law attitude especially in the rough parts. My job brings me into close contact with a lot of young people and believe me social distancing is not a thing and facemasks are very hit and miss, pretty much risking my health daily going to work.
Seen some very sensible balanced replies here but until people are better educated about mask wearing , hygiene and being sensible socialising we will be stuck in a lop until a vaccine is developed. Then we have the group who think the whole thing is a hoax or we are being controlled by the government to deal with! I wonder if they will change there view once a vaccine is developed and the only people catching the virus are those that called it a hoax and refused the vaccine.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Sept 20, 2020 6:50:15 GMT
Looking like we are getting mass gatherings banned next week, no more than 6 people allowed. Second lockdown here we come. With these restrictions on social gatherings including meeting in gardens, we are seeing effectively social rather than economic lockdowns this time.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Sept 20, 2020 6:56:49 GMT
I'll stick my head out above the parapet to say I've been in Camp 2 practically all along as personally, I feel the government have been utterly woeful since Day 1 through a combination mainly of it's own doing but also helped by austerity wiping out the pandemic planning done by the UK during the 00's when pandemic strategies were devised in the event one happened with stockpiles of PPE and other vital equipment yet these stocks were run down during the austerity years whilst pandemic training became a non important thing to do - in comparison, Tesco were ready because they actually did a pandemic exercise a few years prior to 2020 and which saw them far more prepared than many others were. We acted too slow despite the evidence stacking up suggesting we need to move quickly, and it took a petition signed by over 200 leading experts to get the government to introduce the lockdown and even then, the government had the cheek to tell doctors and nurses that they should stop moaning about low supplies whilst simultaneously hanging out care homes to dry leading to many elderly residents dropping like flies. Then we had the big rush to get back to normality during the summer where they suddenly sped up to a point where basically, many people were flouting the two most important rules of washing hands & social distancing - I have no problem with some sort of return to normality but society must continue to adhere to the measures otherwise that normal will once again vanish and everyone will only have themselves to blame as a result. Same here. While I may have voted for these guys their response initially was super slow. Anyone with an iota of common sense would have introduced lockdown at least 3 weeks earlier. I was commuting to central London till the day before lockdown was introduced and I was seriously questioning why lockdown wasn’t happening Plus simple and common sense things like temperature checks at the airport for incoming passengers, stricter control etc were introduced in (hold your breath) July - should have been done in Feb March. You still had people returning from China / Italy / other countries with exponential growth in cases at that time and no one bothering to see where they are going... I also noticed in March how announcements were being phased. On (IIRC) Monday 16th March Boris spoke about discouraging travel and non-urgent work. Then Friday 20th he ordered bars to close. Finally on Monday 23rd the "stay at home" instruction was announced. Covid had of course run rampant during that week of "phased" announcements.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Sept 20, 2020 7:13:36 GMT
Here we go again with the R number fiasco. So many people who see a rise and instantaneously start freaking out. Maybe if they stopped and thought for a second then they'd realise that this was bound to happen. When there's fewer cases, it is much more susceptible to change, when there are more, it isn't. UK cases have been in the low thousands recently so a rise to c. 3500 is obviously going to make a much greater impact upon the R number in comparison to when the cases were in the high five figure stages and a few extra thousand people became infected. All it is is a simple moving average - not that difficult to comprehend. I know I've made jokes about the British public not being the sharpest but I really didn't things were that bad. When the state of things were much worse in the early Spring, with thousands getting infected and hundreds dying every day, the R number was never mentioned at all because it remained almost constant. I would've thought that that would've made things evident enough but clearly a recent rise has riled up all the fear mongers again. People blaming the "eat out to help out" scheme are those who I find to often be looking for a quick scapegoat for the changing national circumstances (AKA. young people, as they have been proven to be the most likely to break social distancing rules. And I'm a young adult myself). The scheme was by no means perfectly executed, but if it were as bad as everyone is saying, we would've seen a rise in cases much earlier on, but we simply haven't. I also believe it was very unilaterally focused on one area - shame that other businesses couldn't have been aided in such a manner. Time and time again I've seen people publicly advertising themselves breaking social distancing rules on social media whether that be going to parties or just generally far too large gatherings. These are then the SAME people who are now blaming everything but themselves for the recent rise in cases again. If I had a pound for every time I've seen people of a similar age as myself claiming that young people are being used as a scapegoat or it's not their fault or Tory scum... etc. then I'd have more money than that fella who won Who Wants to be a Millionaire 30 mins ago. And I'm neither supporting or going against our government in this situation. This is a pandemic, not a political issue and I will not succer up to those who are politicising it. Everyone has a responsibility to do the right thing and as I already said younger people have been proven to be those not complying with social distancing rules and therefore causing a rise in covid cases. As with thousands of others, I'm about to return to university. I suppose I'm in a fortunate position as I start in two weeks time whereas many have already started or are going back this weekend so I'll be able to see their experiences before my own. Already, I've seen a wealth of simply untrue statements online about what is to come. Primarily, a lot of rubbish from the weaponised lecturer unions who have been spouting out all kinds of fear mongering and rubbish which I wouldn't dare take a single grain or salt from let alone a pinch (I'm fortunate in the fact that lecturers at my university aren't so heavily unionised so I have been spared of the false facts and been able to directly see how things will be). I've already been bombarded with a whole load of emails regarding my return and how social distancing will be enforced, monitored and maintained, alongside staggered arrival slots and arrangements for how flat bubbles will work. Quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of getting these emails but if that doesn't show you that tonnes of work is being put in to ensure a safe return then I don't know how people are going to be pleased. Students have much more flexibility as to whether they want to remain at home for now or not and some courses are being taught entirely remotely for the time being. This is exactly in line with workers who are largely able at their own discretion to work at home or not. Last month we saw thousands returning to their workplaces as they were brought off of furlough (yes, many remained at home but plenty didn't) and that hardly caused any problems did it. Rant over. But all I'll end with is just use common d*mn sense. A rise in the R number doesn't mean it's time to start fear mongering and predicting a full second lockdown. Outbreaks are now particularly localised, and local lockdowns are proving to be successful. Leicester, Aberdeen, Preston, Bolton... etc. And of course people should take responsibility for their own actions. Enough of the petty blame game. It solves absolutely nothing! I think you are being a bit too relaxed with this view. You are indeed right about scapegoats and blame, however it's a case about preventing it not spreading it. The rate now is so low that it should be theoretically safe to assume in most crowds people are not carriers however you have the odd chance of "what if" as the rate is still high enough for that to be a potential case. Once someone in a crowd does happen to have it then the chances of it spreading like wildfire within that crowd are huge. Effort is being put in by employers and other institutions however the effort is only as worthwhile as the people following it. I think with Eat Out to help out you can't ignore it. Redbridge has now got among the highest cases in the South of England, which is also the borough where Ilford Lane had more than an hour delay going through due to people queueing into the road for restaurants during the scheme. I don't think that's a coincidence. Regarding Universities, a fact of the matter is that most students will not keep distance from each other, they just won't. It's the black and blue, most of them aren't scared of getting the virus due to their young age and tend to be more impulsive in decisions. It's this reason quite a lot of Unis within London especially are not even opening up at all, even for just some lectures and sessions. So in their case I think it's best to keep closed until January, there's no huge loss keeping them closed at the moment as everything most things can be done online and adaptations can be made to courses to allow it in most cases. Another slightly morbid reason for the slight decrease in potential infections is that the virus has already effectively "done its toll" through the vulnerable, so there's less of them to get seriously infected, and therefore reported. So while a second spike will probably result in more infections, it might not be the case it will cause more deaths. Sadly the reality is the virus will be with us until a vaccine is developed and that's hoping these stupid anti-vaxxers also get vaccinated. I do hope they make it law to have a vaccination when once comes out. I think this bares truth in London, which had proportionately more cases early on even before the lockdown was introduced.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Sept 20, 2020 7:16:46 GMT
Some light humour
Then if he used a ladder instead of the stairs in the bus to reach the upper deck, it would be an alternative case of snakes & ladders
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2020 16:45:08 GMT
I tell you Boris makes more U Turns that a Uber Toyota Prius.
Most details of the new restrictions have been released but will see what he has to say at 8pm. Not trying to be too negative but can't see closing pubs at 10pm having too much of a impact on stopping the spread unless the virus can tell the time
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Post by bus12451 on Sept 22, 2020 17:15:43 GMT
I tell you Boris makes more U Turns that a Uber Toyota Prius.
Most details of the new restrictions have been released but will see what he has to say at 8pm. Not trying to be too negative but can't see closing pubs at 10pm having too much of a impact on stopping the spread unless the virus can tell the time Exactly, what's a 10pm curfew gonna do? We've had quite a bit of scaremongering news this past week - yesterday Sir Patrick Vallance announced that there could be 50000 cases a day by October without any action. However, all we've had is the government (specifically our health secretary) blaming this second wave on the public. They told us to go back to work and eat out at restaurants to help the economy. We did what they said and now they're telling us to do the opposite or get fined.
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Post by greenboy on Sept 22, 2020 17:45:31 GMT
I tell you Boris makes more U Turns that a Uber Toyota Prius.
Most details of the new restrictions have been released but will see what he has to say at 8pm. Not trying to be too negative but can't see closing pubs at 10pm having too much of a impact on stopping the spread unless the virus can tell the time Exactly, what's a 10pm curfew gonna do? We've had quite a bit of scaremongering news this past week - yesterday Sir Patrick Vallance announced that there could be 50000 cases a day by October without any action. However, all we've had is the government (specifically our health secretary) blaming this second wave on the public. They told us to go back to work and eat out at restaurants to help the economy. We did what they said and now they're telling us to do the opposite or get fined. So what time should the curfew be? Or should pubs be closed completely again? Because that's the way it's heading unless some people start acting a bit more responsibly. Nobody is blaming anything on the public...... of course the government encouraged people to eat out when it was safe to do so but now the reinfection rate is going up things have to change. This is a dynamic situation and things are going to constantly change, I really don't know why some people find this so difficult to grasp? We're all fed up with the situation, none of us want any of this but it's just a case of making the best of a bad situation. This is the situation in Madrid.... www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/21/spain-deploys-army-madrid-help-enforce-lockdown2/?fbclid=IwAR3gSGuao5Sy2q1JNhzGi5Zrufq2XGpG8SREnIu43fIhai4EAdgzdAcBoeEwww.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-54211361
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Post by vjaska on Sept 22, 2020 17:46:05 GMT
I tell you Boris makes more U Turns that a Uber Toyota Prius. Most details of the new restrictions have been released but will see what he has to say at 8pm. Not trying to be too negative but can't see closing pubs at 10pm having too much of a impact on stopping the spread unless the virus can tell the time Exactly, what's a 10pm curfew gonna do? We've had quite a bit of scaremongering news this past week - yesterday Sir Patrick Vallance announced that there could be 50000 cases a day by October without any action. However, all we've had is the government (specifically our health secretary) blaming this second wave on the public. They told us to go back to work and eat out at restaurants to help the economy. We did what they said and now they're telling us to do the opposite or get fined. Whilst the government have been woeful throughout this, they are right on one thing - society only has itself to blame to an extent for not taking the guidance and consequences seriously enough. It genuinely seems like some want to live in a continuing groundhog style loop where we go through multiple periods of restrictions than ignore guidance, then restrictions, then guidance and so on. Businesses who go under have two lots to blame - the government for its constant muddled messages and society for being selfish & ignorant.
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Post by bus12451 on Sept 22, 2020 18:19:56 GMT
Exactly, what's a 10pm curfew gonna do? We've had quite a bit of scaremongering news this past week - yesterday Sir Patrick Vallance announced that there could be 50000 cases a day by October without any action. However, all we've had is the government (specifically our health secretary) blaming this second wave on the public. They told us to go back to work and eat out at restaurants to help the economy. We did what they said and now they're telling us to do the opposite or get fined. So what time should the curfew be? Or should pubs be closed completely again? Because that's the way it's heading unless some people start acting a bit more responsibly. Nobody is blaming anything on the public...... of course the government encouraged people to eat out when it was safe to do so but now the reinfection rate is going up things have to change. This is a dynamic situation and things are going to constantly change, I really don't know why some people find this so difficult to grasp? We're all fed up with the situation, none of us want any of this but it's just a case of making the best of a bad situation. This is the situation in Madrid.... www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/21/spain-deploys-army-madrid-help-enforce-lockdown2/?fbclid=IwAR3gSGuao5Sy2q1JNhzGi5Zrufq2XGpG8SREnIu43fIhai4EAdgzdAcBoeEThe majority are acting responsibly i.e. wearing face coverings, keeping distance wherever possible etc... it's the minority that unfortunately ignored the guidance leading us to this point. I still see the odd person without a mask at my local Sainsburys but what I don't see, are kids hanging outside Morley's at 4pm for example. The minority has led to the government blaming the public as a whole and implementing restrictions that...lets be honest... won't do much as people will find their way around. Ultimately, the government are to blame for their mishandling, look at our country's test and trace scheme... it failed.
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Post by greenboy on Sept 22, 2020 18:31:26 GMT
So what time should the curfew be? Or should pubs be closed completely again? Because that's the way it's heading unless some people start acting a bit more responsibly. Nobody is blaming anything on the public...... of course the government encouraged people to eat out when it was safe to do so but now the reinfection rate is going up things have to change. This is a dynamic situation and things are going to constantly change, I really don't know why some people find this so difficult to grasp? We're all fed up with the situation, none of us want any of this but it's just a case of making the best of a bad situation. This is the situation in Madrid.... www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/21/spain-deploys-army-madrid-help-enforce-lockdown2/?fbclid=IwAR3gSGuao5Sy2q1JNhzGi5Zrufq2XGpG8SREnIu43fIhai4EAdgzdAcBoeEThe majority are acting responsibly i.e. wearing face coverings, keeping distance wherever possible etc... it's the minority that unfortunately ignored the guidance leading us to this point. I still see the odd person without a mask at my local Sainsburys but what I don't see, are kids hanging outside Morley's at 4pm for example. The minority has led to the government blaming the public as a whole and implementing restrictions that...lets be honest... won't do much as people will find their way around. Ultimately, the government are to blame for their mishandling, look at our country's test and trace scheme... it failed. Yes it is a minority that have behaved irresponsibly and unfortunately the more alcohol some people consume the more irresponsible they become hence the 10pm closing, whether that does the trick or not remains to be seen. The government are an easy scapegoat just like the mayor and local councils are.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2020 19:10:58 GMT
Exactly, what's a 10pm curfew gonna do? We've had quite a bit of scaremongering news this past week - yesterday Sir Patrick Vallance announced that there could be 50000 cases a day by October without any action. However, all we've had is the government (specifically our health secretary) blaming this second wave on the public. They told us to go back to work and eat out at restaurants to help the economy. We did what they said and now they're telling us to do the opposite or get fined. So what time should the curfew be? Or should pubs be closed completely again? Because that's the way it's heading unless some people start acting a bit more responsibly. Nobody is blaming anything on the public...... of course the government encouraged people to eat out when it was safe to do so but now the reinfection rate is going up things have to change. This is a dynamic situation and things are going to constantly change, I really don't know why some people find this so difficult to grasp? We're all fed up with the situation, none of us want any of this but it's just a case of making the best of a bad situation. This is the situation in Madrid.... www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/21/spain-deploys-army-madrid-help-enforce-lockdown2/?fbclid=IwAR3gSGuao5Sy2q1JNhzGi5Zrufq2XGpG8SREnIu43fIhai4EAdgzdAcBoeEwww.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-54211361Would have been in a much better place now if the government never pushed the eat out to help out! people really exploited it understandably. It's a shame they never pushed a return to offices more back in August! Would have been much safer and easier to keep track of people that fall ill with the virus. Sadly I think central London is pretty much finished now, so many businesses will go under as a result of no customers from offices.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2020 19:15:24 GMT
The majority are acting responsibly i.e. wearing face coverings, keeping distance wherever possible etc... it's the minority that unfortunately ignored the guidance leading us to this point. I still see the odd person without a mask at my local Sainsburys but what I don't see, are kids hanging outside Morley's at 4pm for example. The minority has led to the government blaming the public as a whole and implementing restrictions that...lets be honest... won't do much as people will find their way around. Ultimately, the government are to blame for their mishandling, look at our country's test and trace scheme... it failed. Yes it is a minority that have behaved irresponsibly and unfortunately the more alcohol some people consume the more irresponsible they become hence the 10pm closing, whether that does the trick or not remains to be seen. The government are an easy scapegoat just like the mayor and local councils are. That very minority will just go out earlier or worse still go to houses to carry on drinking when pubs are closed!
The government are not not scapegoats they need to pull their finger out and start enforcing the rules and issuing fines and stop changing the message and communicate clearly!!. We need an emergency all party government otherwise we will just keep going around in circles.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2020 19:23:09 GMT
Covid: School bus drivers fearful of coronavirus infection risk
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