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Post by rugbyref on Dec 24, 2021 10:45:07 GMT
But even the hospitalisation figures are misleading. If you are admitted with a broken leg, but test positive on admission, you are counted in the ‘in hospital with covid’ stats, even if you have no symptoms and don’t need covid treatment.
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Post by Paul on Dec 24, 2021 14:38:29 GMT
No I think many people now will be considering whether it’s needed, especially if the virus appears to becoming less of a threat. Time to ramp down testing, isolation and get back to some normality. Would be quite silly to ramp down testing and isolation, the virus won't decide that just because testing has gone down that it will stop transmitting. The virus is weakening - South Africa told us this weeks ago and our scientists have (reluctantly) started to agree. My understanding is that the virus is acting as expected and weakening with every mutation. There are a number of reports that people are experiencing nothing more than mild cold symptoms now. Yes, there are examples of people suffering more and, sadly, succumbing to the virus. But a large number of people succumb to flu every year and I don’t remember being told to test and isolate in years past if I had a runny nose. And that’s essentially what we are being told to do now. The virus is here to stay - just something else trying to kill us that we have to be careful to avoid. We cannot cower in fear of this virus any longer - there has to be a point at which we say ‘no more’ |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 24, 2021 14:42:04 GMT
Would be quite silly to ramp down testing and isolation, the virus won't decide that just because testing has gone down that it will stop transmitting. The virus is weakening - South Africa told us this weeks ago and our scientists have (reluctantly) started to agree. My understanding is that the virus is acting as expected and weakening with every mutation. There are a number of reports that people are experiencing nothing more than mild cold symptoms now. Yes, there are examples of people suffering more and, sadly, succumbing to the virus. But a large number of people succumb to flu every year and I don’t remember being told to test and isolate in years past if I had a runny nose. And that’s essentially what we are being told to do now. The virus is here to stay - just something else trying to kill us that we have to be careful to avoid. We cannot cower in fear of this virus any longer - there has to be a point at which we say ‘no more’ Where is the research paper that says the virus is weakening with every mutation? This has only been seen in Omricon and certainly wasn't the case with Delta and Alpha. The issue isn't Omricon, the issue is Omricon spreading a lot giving it more of an opportunity to mutate into something more deadly. |
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Post by Paul on Dec 24, 2021 14:44:57 GMT
The virus is weakening - South Africa told us this weeks ago and our scientists have (reluctantly) started to agree. My understanding is that the virus is acting as expected and weakening with every mutation. There are a number of reports that people are experiencing nothing more than mild cold symptoms now. Yes, there are examples of people suffering more and, sadly, succumbing to the virus. But a large number of people succumb to flu every year and I don’t remember being told to test and isolate in years past if I had a runny nose. And that’s essentially what we are being told to do now. The virus is here to stay - just something else trying to kill us that we have to be careful to avoid. We cannot cower in fear of this virus any longer - there has to be a point at which we say ‘no more’ Where is the research paper that says the virus is weakening with every mutation? This has only been seen in Omricon and certainly wasn't the case with Delta and Alpha. The issue isn't Omricon, the issue is Omricon spreading a lot giving it more of an opportunity to mutate into something more deadly. I’ve asked this question many times in different places and never had an answer so perhaps you can answer it: where and how does it all end? |
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Post by Paul on Dec 24, 2021 14:46:08 GMT
Additionally, doesn’t flu mutate as well? And isn’t it true to say that Omicron could mutate into something weaker just as easily as into something stronger?
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Dec 24, 2021 15:02:58 GMT
Would be quite silly to ramp down testing and isolation, the virus won't decide that just because testing has gone down that it will stop transmitting. The virus is weakening - South Africa told us this weeks ago and our scientists have (reluctantly) started to agree. My understanding is that the virus is acting as expected and weakening with every mutation. There are a number of reports that people are experiencing nothing more than mild cold symptoms now. Yes, there are examples of people suffering more and, sadly, succumbing to the virus. But a large number of people succumb to flu every year and I don’t remember being told to test and isolate in years past if I had a runny nose. And that’s essentially what we are being told to do now. The virus is here to stay - just something else trying to kill us that we have to be careful to avoid. We cannot cower in fear of this virus any longer - there has to be a point at which we say ‘no more’ No, the virus is strengthening. A virus does not want to kill the host and, if it does, the virus has no place to multiply. It can only multiply by feeding off cells, as it is not an organism. It wants to skirt the immune system and use our bodies for their benefit, therefore they are parasitic. A virus' aim is to mutate into a more transmissable strain, but also into a less lethal one, hence where we are with Omicron. From an immune system's point of view, it wants to kill the virus to stop it depleting us of our stores of nutrients and energy. It kills the virus by raising the body temperature and attempting to cough/sneeze out mucus containing the virus. White blood cells also attack the pathogen, and this is what the vaccine does. It provides our cells with the tools to kill the virus. So the symptoms of Covid are caused by our bodily reaction to the virus. The virus is most certainly not trying to kill it's host. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 24, 2021 15:36:00 GMT
The virus is weakening - South Africa told us this weeks ago and our scientists have (reluctantly) started to agree. My understanding is that the virus is acting as expected and weakening with every mutation. There are a number of reports that people are experiencing nothing more than mild cold symptoms now. Yes, there are examples of people suffering more and, sadly, succumbing to the virus. But a large number of people succumb to flu every year and I don’t remember being told to test and isolate in years past if I had a runny nose. And that’s essentially what we are being told to do now. The virus is here to stay - just something else trying to kill us that we have to be careful to avoid. We cannot cower in fear of this virus any longer - there has to be a point at which we say ‘no more’ No, the virus is strengthening. A virus does not want to kill the host and, if it does, the virus has no place to multiply. It can only multiply by feeding off cells, as it is not an organism. It wants to skirt the immune system and use our bodies for their benefit, therefore they are parasitic. A virus' aim is to mutate into a more transmissable strain, but also into a less lethal one, hence where we are with Omicron. From an immune system's point of view, it wants to kill the virus to stop it depleting us of our stores of nutrients and energy. It kills the virus by raising the body temperature and attempting to cough/sneeze out mucus containing the virus. White blood cells also attack the pathogen, and this is what the vaccine does. It provides our cells with the tools to kill the virus. So the symptoms of Covid are caused by our bodily reaction to the virus. The virus is most certainly not trying to kill it's host. This is not strictly true, however roughly along the lines of what happens. Omicron isn't a result of the virus trying to be less lethal, a virus mutates so that it can survive the best in the host that it is in at the time. It's believed Omicron came from a HIV/AIDS patient who is likely to have a very weak or no immune system and therefore it didn't need to mutate into a very strong form to continue evading the immune system. Viruses mutate all the time, I wouldn't be surprised if everyone suffering Covid has one mutated virus in them but these usually get killed off before they're transmitted. Those without immune systems are more likely to transmit such viruses, or someone can just be unlucky and the mutation isn't detected early enough by the immune system. SARS-Cov-2 multiplies in the area around and in the lungs, it's where the receptors it attaches to are. The intention of the virus is to replicate as much as it can and eventually that means infecting every cell and moving onto many other hosts before the one it's in dies or kills it off with an immune response. The side effect of all this is obviously the severe damage to the lung tissue which can kill some people. If Omicron is causing milder symptoms then it means the virus is being killed off before it can do much of what it wants which is proliferation. Chances are therefore it will mutate into a more severe form sooner or later to evade the immune system for longer and therefore individuals suffer more severe symptoms. If Omicron was the be all and end all of this virus, and we are confident that there'll be no more mutations ever then I'd be quite happy to let this virus remain endemic. But we very well know that SARS-Cov-2 isn't one that remains in a single form for long and the more people it goes through the more opportunities it gets to mutate and the more likely another mutation will evade someone's immune system and enter circulation. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 24, 2021 15:38:50 GMT
Additionally, doesn’t flu mutate as well? And isn’t it true to say that Omicron could mutate into something weaker just as easily as into something stronger? The flu however mutates in a different way to what the Coronavirus tends to do, There's many mutations that can happen and the years and years worth of research we have available on it has allowed a multi-strain vaccine to be developed. On top of this flu can fall into one of four (?) families, data and research advises which of these are likely to be the most dominant during a winter and the relevant vaccine is administered, which is also why it needs to be given every year. This research simply doesn't exist with Coronavirus, while it's likely to in the future we are not yet at such a stage. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 24, 2021 15:40:04 GMT
Where is the research paper that says the virus is weakening with every mutation? This has only been seen in Omricon and certainly wasn't the case with Delta and Alpha. The issue isn't Omricon, the issue is Omricon spreading a lot giving it more of an opportunity to mutate into something more deadly. I’ve asked this question many times in different places and never had an answer so perhaps you can answer it: where and how does it all end? I'm not the government or SAGE so it's not my problem to find a way out of this, it's up to them to find a way out. However it's easy to suggest which ideas shouldn't be implemented using scientific knowledge. |
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Post by Paul on Dec 24, 2021 15:53:17 GMT
I’ve asked this question many times in different places and never had an answer so perhaps you can answer it: where and how does it all end? I'm not the government or SAGE so it's not my problem to find a way out of this, it's up to them to find a way out. However it's easy to suggest which ideas shouldn't be implemented using scientific knowledge. Fair enough, you can’t answer it either. I didn’t expect an answer if I’m honest |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Dec 24, 2021 17:59:32 GMT
The virus is weakening - South Africa told us this weeks ago and our scientists have (reluctantly) started to agree. My understanding is that the virus is acting as expected and weakening with every mutation. There are a number of reports that people are experiencing nothing more than mild cold symptoms now. Yes, there are examples of people suffering more and, sadly, succumbing to the virus. But a large number of people succumb to flu every year and I don’t remember being told to test and isolate in years past if I had a runny nose. And that’s essentially what we are being told to do now. The virus is here to stay - just something else trying to kill us that we have to be careful to avoid. We cannot cower in fear of this virus any longer - there has to be a point at which we say ‘no more’ No, the virus is strengthening. A virus does not want to kill the host and, if it does, the virus has no place to multiply. It can only multiply by feeding off cells, as it is not an organism. It wants to skirt the immune system and use our bodies for their benefit, therefore they are parasitic. A virus' aim is to mutate into a more transmissable strain, but also into a less lethal one, hence where we are with Omicron. From an immune system's point of view, it wants to kill the virus to stop it depleting us of our stores of nutrients and energy. It kills the virus by raising the body temperature and attempting to cough/sneeze out mucus containing the virus. White blood cells also attack the pathogen, and this is what the vaccine does. It provides our cells with the tools to kill the virus. So the symptoms of Covid are caused by our bodily reaction to the virus. The virus is most certainly not trying to kill it's host. Judging by Omicron becoming widespread I think the conclusion you can draw from the numbers is Omicron is very infectious but doesn't have a high death rate. |
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Post by WH241 on Dec 24, 2021 18:02:43 GMT
No, the virus is strengthening. A virus does not want to kill the host and, if it does, the virus has no place to multiply. It can only multiply by feeding off cells, as it is not an organism. It wants to skirt the immune system and use our bodies for their benefit, therefore they are parasitic. A virus' aim is to mutate into a more transmissable strain, but also into a less lethal one, hence where we are with Omicron. From an immune system's point of view, it wants to kill the virus to stop it depleting us of our stores of nutrients and energy. It kills the virus by raising the body temperature and attempting to cough/sneeze out mucus containing the virus. White blood cells also attack the pathogen, and this is what the vaccine does. It provides our cells with the tools to kill the virus. So the symptoms of Covid are caused by our bodily reaction to the virus. The virus is most certainly not trying to kill it's host. Judging by Omicron becoming widespread I think the conclusion you can draw from the numbers is Omicron is very infectious but doesn't have a high death rate. I hope I’m wrong but I do worry the virus will mutate due to such a high rate of infection in the UK. Today we had 122k cases of Delta and Omicron. |
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Post by snowman on Dec 24, 2021 19:08:47 GMT
Judging by Omicron becoming widespread I think the conclusion you can draw from the numbers is Omicron is very infectious but doesn't have a high death rate. I hope I’m wrong but I do worry the virus will mutate due to such a high rate of infection in the UK. Today we had 122k cases of Delta and Omicron. If the Scientists and Boris had been correct with it doubling every 2-3 days at their press conference last week, then we would be seeing about million infections per day by now. This means either the scare stories to justify action were overdone, or vast numbers are getting it in mild form that they haven’t even noticed and have not even thought about getting a test. The death rate has been generally falling, the number of hospitalisations is roughly flat (only going up marginally). The number in hospital needing ventilation beds has fallen to about 850 (was over 1000 early November). My understanding is that hospitalisations have jumped in London (but if nationally is roughly constant, then must have fallen elsewhere to balance the average), but then it seems parts of London don’t have very good vaccination rates. Apparently some areas of UK are around 70% for boosters, nationally it is 56%, but I hear parts of London are feeble and below 35%. That rather makes policy determination rather hard, if as rumoured there is a 2 week circuit breaker announced Boxing Day then it will be based on pre Christmas data (there is no further data until Monday), so could be announced today. The delay is political not science based. The next problem was if they do a circuit breaker, what was the rush to get boosters, and should it only apply to those who haven’t been done. There is a case for those who have got booster to get back to normal. Not an easy debate. |
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Post by WH241 on Dec 29, 2021 14:18:19 GMT
On a bus for the first time on a bus since last summer and it’s disappointing to be the only passenger out of 12 upstairs to be wearing a face covering.
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Post by ServerKing on Dec 30, 2021 8:22:13 GMT
I hope I’m wrong but I do worry the virus will mutate due to such a high rate of infection in the UK. Today we had 122k cases of Delta and Omicron. If the Scientists and Boris had been correct with it doubling every 2-3 days at their press conference last week, then we would be seeing about million infections per day by now. This means either the scare stories to justify action were overdone, or vast numbers are getting it in mild form that they haven’t even noticed and have not even thought about getting a test. The death rate has been generally falling, the number of hospitalisations is roughly flat (only going up marginally). The number in hospital needing ventilation beds has fallen to about 850 (was over 1000 early November). My understanding is that hospitalisations have jumped in London (but if nationally is roughly constant, then must have fallen elsewhere to balance the average), but then it seems parts of London don’t have very good vaccination rates. Apparently some areas of UK are around 70% for boosters, nationally it is 56%, but I hear parts of London are feeble and below 35%. That rather makes policy determination rather hard, if as rumoured there is a 2 week circuit breaker announced Boxing Day then it will be based on pre Christmas data (there is no further data until Monday), so could be announced today. The delay is political not science based. The next problem was if they do a circuit breaker, what was the rush to get boosters, and should it only apply to those who haven’t been done. There is a case for those who have got booster to get back to normal. Not an easy debate. This time last week, I went to my local PCR test centre in Wood Green as I felt rough for a couple of before. I had tested positive on a lateral flow test before. Not a pleasant experience (PCR was fine, but Covid wasn't), your appetite goes off a cliff edge, high temperatures, headaches, nausea the lot. Annoying thing was I had the booster jab the Saturday before, so I wasn't sure if it was a reaction to that, but it was full blown Covid. Boris is scared of killing the economy, he doesn't want lots of kids off school again (as parents won't be able to get to work), after a damp and mild New Year I can't see any sort of circuit breaker working. I think Boris will hope for "keep calm and carry on" to get us through this next wave. The constant questions from Track and Trace have been more annoying. A little Covid trivia:- all tests will show you positive for 90 days, so there's no point for continuing to do lateral flow tests after a positive result. I don't think there will be another lockdown this time. |
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