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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 24, 2021 21:46:55 GMT
The Scanias do not have long left so I doubt they'll be reblinded for one extra route, probably not worth reblinding them for only a short time period before they're withdrawn. Judging by the most recent route gains at PD, namely the 161 and 422, I would say it's unlikely that the entire fleet will be reblinded for the 180. The 53, 122 and 177 run further west than the other PD routes and are strictly allocated hybrid buses (53 is a must for obvious reasons), I'm willing to bet that the 180 will be in the same boat as those 3 routes in the sense that it would use nothing but electrics and hybrids, especially as it will have a part hybrid allocation. I think it's very likely that the E400Hs (including MMC) will be reblinded for the 180, then maybe the diesel E400s and the Volvo B5LH E400 MMCs. The Volvos however may depend on whether or not Stagecoach are able to retain the 177 with its current allocation. Why are the 122 & 177 all of a suddenly strictly hybrid only? I remember a couple of years ago that practically anything went on both routes with the 53 strictly using Enviro 400's and then MMC's I guess eventually an operator should use the correct vehicle type and the 122 and 177 are both contracted for full hybrid allocations. TFL may have given dispensation for the Scanias to be used on the 472 as it was/is planned to have a reduced PVR at some point.
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Post by bus12451 on Apr 24, 2021 21:54:11 GMT
The Scanias do not have long left so I doubt they'll be reblinded for one extra route, probably not worth reblinding them for only a short time period before they're withdrawn. Judging by the most recent route gains at PD, namely the 161 and 422, I would say it's unlikely that the entire fleet will be reblinded for the 180. The 53, 122 and 177 run further west than the other PD routes and are strictly allocated hybrid buses (53 is a must for obvious reasons), I'm willing to bet that the 180 will be in the same boat as those 3 routes in the sense that it would use nothing but electrics and hybrids, especially as it will have a part hybrid allocation. I think it's very likely that the E400Hs (including MMC) will be reblinded for the 180, then maybe the diesel E400s and the Volvo B5LH E400 MMCs. The Volvos however may depend on whether or not Stagecoach are able to retain the 177 with its current allocation. Why are the 122 & 177 all of a suddenly strictly hybrid only? I remember a couple of years ago that practically anything went on both routes with the 53 strictly using Enviro 400's and then MMC's Could be due to the Low Emission Bus Zones introduced by the Mayor and TfL in 2018 and 2019: Camberwell - New Cross and Lewisham - Catford. At the time, a large handful of buses at PD were not Euro 6 emissions compliant, which included Scanias, Tridents and some diesel E400s. And of course most of the fleet at PD were Euro 6 hybrids, so I'm guessing it was decided internally to keep those routes strictly hybrid, and has remained that way ever since. Another thing I have noticed is that the 53 no longer uses the Volvo B5LH E400 MMCs, despite being compliant Euro 6 hybrids. They used to be a common sight on the route, now they very rarely make an appearance. It has been like this ever since the Gemini 3s were withdrawn and the E400Hs from TL transferred in. PD are alot stricter with allocations now than they were a few years ago, the 472 is the only regular day route to see all bus types at the garage.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2021 21:58:48 GMT
Why are the 122 & 177 all of a suddenly strictly hybrid only? I remember a couple of years ago that practically anything went on both routes with the 53 strictly using Enviro 400's and then MMC's I guess eventually an operator should use the correct vehicle type and the 122 and 177 are both contracted for full hybrid allocations. TFL may have given dispensation for the Scanias to be used on the 472 as it was/is planned to have a reduced PVR at some point. Pretained much all routes see odd workings with diesels instead of Hybrids I'm sure TfL don't get involved in such matters as long as the service is being provided. The only strict allocations are electrics and I'm sure even those might be subbed in the future as needed.
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 24, 2021 22:05:52 GMT
I guess eventually an operator should use the correct vehicle type and the 122 and 177 are both contracted for full hybrid allocations. TFL may have given dispensation for the Scanias to be used on the 472 as it was/is planned to have a reduced PVR at some point. Pretained much all routes see odd workings with diesels instead of Hybrids I'm sure TfL don't get involved in such matters as long as the service is being provided. The only strict allocations are electrics and I'm sure even those might be subbed in the future as needed. The 180 has already broken the taboo of not having a full electric allocation so we may see more routes with new and existing buses.
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Post by bus12451 on Apr 24, 2021 22:22:56 GMT
The Scanias do not have long left so I doubt they'll be reblinded for one extra route, probably not worth reblinding them for only a short time period before they're withdrawn. Judging by the most recent route gains at PD, namely the 161 and 422, I would say it's unlikely that the entire fleet will be reblinded for the 180. The 53, 122 and 177 run further west than the other PD routes and are strictly allocated hybrid buses (53 is a must for obvious reasons), I'm willing to bet that the 180 will be in the same boat as those 3 routes in the sense that it would use nothing but electrics and hybrids, especially as it will have a part hybrid allocation. I think it's very likely that the E400Hs (including MMC) will be reblinded for the 180, then maybe the diesel E400s and the Volvo B5LH E400 MMCs. The Volvos however may depend on whether or not Stagecoach are able to retain the 177 with its current allocation. Scanias and Volvos haven't done any new route won since 2018, this won't change. They'll stick to what they do. I see. It's crazy to think that the 180 will go from using Volvos daily for over 20 years to not using them at all, and will soon use ADL buses which had always been once in a blue moon up until only 3 years ago.
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Post by busboy17 on Apr 25, 2021 0:04:47 GMT
Pretained much all routes see odd workings with diesels instead of Hybrids I'm sure TfL don't get involved in such matters as long as the service is being provided. The only strict allocations are electrics and I'm sure even those might be subbed in the future as needed. The 180 has already broken the taboo of not having a full electric allocation so we may see more routes with new and existing buses. I think the hybrid allocation is because the 180 may get a frequency reduction?
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Post by vjaska on Apr 25, 2021 0:18:38 GMT
Why are the 122 & 177 all of a suddenly strictly hybrid only? I remember a couple of years ago that practically anything went on both routes with the 53 strictly using Enviro 400's and then MMC's Could be due to the Low Emission Bus Zones introduced by the Mayor and TfL in 2018 and 2019: Camberwell - New Cross and Lewisham - Catford. At the time, a large handful of buses at PD were not Euro 6 emissions compliant, which included Scanias, Tridents and some diesel E400s. And of course most of the fleet at PD were Euro 6 hybrids, so I'm guessing it was decided internally to keep those routes strictly hybrid, and has remained that way ever since. Another thing I have noticed is that the 53 no longer uses the Volvo B5LH E400 MMCs, despite being compliant Euro 6 hybrids. They used to be a common sight on the route, now they very rarely make an appearance. It has been like this ever since the Gemini 3s were withdrawn and the E400Hs from TL transferred in. PD are alot stricter with allocations now than they were a few years ago, the 472 is the only regular day route to see all bus types at the garage. Bu the green corridors were never governed properly as non Euro VI buses would always run along them so I doubt it was because of that. It seems the 96, along with the 472, isn't strict with it's allocation as it was retained with hybrids but sees Scanias among other types regularly.
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Post by cl54 on Apr 25, 2021 6:34:38 GMT
Could be due to the Low Emission Bus Zones introduced by the Mayor and TfL in 2018 and 2019: Camberwell - New Cross and Lewisham - Catford. At the time, a large handful of buses at PD were not Euro 6 emissions compliant, which included Scanias, Tridents and some diesel E400s. And of course most of the fleet at PD were Euro 6 hybrids, so I'm guessing it was decided internally to keep those routes strictly hybrid, and has remained that way ever since. Another thing I have noticed is that the 53 no longer uses the Volvo B5LH E400 MMCs, despite being compliant Euro 6 hybrids. They used to be a common sight on the route, now they very rarely make an appearance. It has been like this ever since the Gemini 3s were withdrawn and the E400Hs from TL transferred in. PD are alot stricter with allocations now than they were a few years ago, the 472 is the only regular day route to see all bus types at the garage. Bu the green corridors were never governed properly as non Euro VI buses would always run along them so I doubt it was because of that. It seems the 96, along with the 472, isn't strict with it's allocation as it was retained with hybrids but sees Scanias among other types regularly. PD used to be any bus will do. Scanias appeared on all their routes. Things are better now with stricter allocation according to the contract.
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Post by Gellico on Apr 25, 2021 14:48:47 GMT
The 180 has already broken the taboo of not having a full electric allocation so we may see more routes with new and existing buses. I think the hybrid allocation is because the 180 may get a frequency reduction? A mix of 2 possible restructures on the route, say if it were to just become Belvedere to North Greenwich the 11 or so BYDs will cover the entire allocation. Also cost, when the 180 was awarded TFL was looking at £billions of lost revenue, as such the best + cheapest contract would of been sought - hence the mixed electric+hybird award, the 63 is also similar with the N63 being hybird - 18 months ago these would all of been awarded as 100% electric. As always it comes down to cost....
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Post by vjaska on Apr 25, 2021 15:39:30 GMT
I think the hybrid allocation is because the 180 may get a frequency reduction? A mix of 2 possible restructures on the route, say if it were to just become Belvedere to North Greenwich the 11 or so BYDs will cover the entire allocation. Also cost, when the 180 was awarded TFL was looking at £billions of lost revenue, as such the best + cheapest contract would of been sought - hence the mixed electric+hybird award, the 63 is also similar with the N63 being hybird - 18 months ago these would all of been awarded as 100% electric. As always it comes down to cost.... I thought the N63 was awarded as hybrids for other reasons?
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 25, 2021 15:44:47 GMT
A mix of 2 possible restructures on the route, say if it were to just become Belvedere to North Greenwich the 11 or so BYDs will cover the entire allocation. Also cost, when the 180 was awarded TFL was looking at £billions of lost revenue, as such the best + cheapest contract would of been sought - hence the mixed electric+hybird award, the 63 is also similar with the N63 being hybird - 18 months ago these would all of been awarded as 100% electric. As always it comes down to cost.... I thought the N63 was awarded as hybrids for other reasons? I think it was too do with a tight turn on Wood Vale.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2021 16:16:59 GMT
At least one of the RMs at WH has had its blinds removed.
Must say the garage looks so much smaller now. Also noticed lots of building materials stored in front of the main garage arches so guess something is going to be built on that part of the land.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 25, 2021 16:23:40 GMT
I thought the N63 was awarded as hybrids for other reasons? I think it was too do with a tight turn on Wood Vale. That what I was thinking too - the 63’s electrics should be 10.9m which could be problematic for one of the turns out of Melford Road whereas the existing hybrids are 10.2m & 10.3m which can make the turn given the 363’s EH’s do so & are 10.3m whilst the longer MHV’s seem ok too.
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Post by lazy_eye_metaphor on Apr 25, 2021 17:53:37 GMT
The 180 has already broken the taboo of not having a full electric allocation so we may see more routes with new and existing buses. I think the hybrid allocation is because the 180 may get a frequency reduction? The 180 had a frequency increase about three years ago to address chronic overcrowding. Can't see that being reversed. Now if we were to look at the 422 however...
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 25, 2021 18:11:04 GMT
I think the hybrid allocation is because the 180 may get a frequency reduction? The 180 had a frequency increase about three years ago to address chronic overcrowding. Can't see that being reversed. Now if we were to look at the 422 however... I think they meant a PVR reduction as the 180 could cut to just been North Greenwich to Belvedere for a bit.
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