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Post by WH241 on Jul 9, 2024 19:19:56 GMT
New W12 can have 9.7m - the order is for 8.5m new W13 & W14 can have 10.8m - the order is for 10.8 The DD short working on W13 will be the only DD working on the W13 - unlike today If this is the case, I think we will see MetroCities on the W12, and BZLs on the W13 and W14. The reason why I say BZLs for the W13 and W14 is because as both are being operated out of LI, it could be the same fleet as the 276. Though I'm not sure why you said the order for W12 is for 8.5m, when it's able to take 9.7m buses, being the 9.7m BZLs or even the 9.5m MetroCities..? Surely if he said its getting 8.5 m then its getting 8.5m? I am sure Stagecoach know what they have ordered.
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Post by ! ALEED on Jul 9, 2024 19:22:06 GMT
If this is the case, I think we will see MetroCities on the W12, and BZLs on the W13 and W14. The reason why I say BZLs for the W13 and W14 is because as both are being operated out of LI, it could be the same fleet as the 276. Though I'm not sure why you said the order for W12 is for 8.5m, when it's able to take 9.7m buses, being the 9.7m BZLs or even the 9.5m MetroCities..? Surely if he said its getting 8.5 m then its getting 8.5m? I am sure Stagecoach know what they have ordered.
That's not what I meant. I meant as in if the W12 is able to take longer buses, and if the PVR is also being doubled, it should perhaps get the best length for it, being 9.5m MetroCities or 9.7m BZLs like the VMSS's at Metroline. But yes, I am sure Stagecoach know what they've ordered and the best for the route, after all they are the ones operating it. I'm just hoping it's not a similar situation like the 366 where it could've gotten longer buses but they decided to get shorter ones instead. |
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Post by vjaska on Jul 9, 2024 21:50:25 GMT
Surely if he said its getting 8.5 m then its getting 8.5m? I am sure Stagecoach know what they have ordered. That's not what I meant. I meant as in if the W12 is able to take longer buses, and if the PVR is also being doubled, it should perhaps get the best length for it, being 9.5m MetroCities or 9.7m BZLs like the VMSS's at Metroline. But yes, I am sure Stagecoach know what they've ordered and the best for the route, after all they are the ones operating it. I'm just hoping it's not a similar situation like the 366 where it could've gotten longer buses but they decided to get shorter ones instead. Some routes can take longer buses without issue but it may be that TfL have simply specified it must be 8.5m (or 8.7m considering that's the length of a single door Metrocity). I agree with your vehicle guesses for the three routes btw, makes the most sense but of course, they could throw a spanner in the works  |
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Post by BK15AZR on Jul 9, 2024 21:50:55 GMT
Does anyone know the length restrictions for the new restructured W routes? Currently... W12 is using 7.8ms W13 is able to use 10.9ms W14 is using 10.8ms W12 should be able to use longer buses given it's being re-routed to not go to Walthamstow Village, Blackhorse Road and Coppermill Lane. New W12 can have 9.7m - the order is for 8.5m new W13 & W14 can have 10.8m - the order is for 10.8 The DD short working on W13 will be the only DD working on the W13 - unlike today I believe the W12 should be able to take longer buses after the re-route. I doubt if the new W14 can do that though as it's taking up some of the tighter streets that the current W12 passes through. |
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Post by adl on Jul 9, 2024 22:10:40 GMT
Route 165 is becoming somewhat of a safety concern now, currently on 19726 which is packed upstairs and down and also downstairs there is no standing room (gives you an idea of how busy the 165 is which normally uses single deckers!!) we also left people behind in Elm Park because the bus is so full. the single decker behind running right behind it is full to the door as well . The double deck I’m on is so full that people are falling out of the rear door when the door opens. TFL really need to do something about this, the 365 in front of us (double deck) is packed full as well which follows the 165 between Romford Market & Romford Station and between Abbs Cross & South Street (Beam Park) Towards Romford is one of the 9.6m E200s on the 165 which is full and has only just started its journey going past South Hornchurch. Was there a problem with one of the rail routes? If either the District or the Elizabeth Line is suspended, people will catch buses to and from stations on the other route. No, this issue is daily, the 165 is to be decked badly, I have actually put in a complaint to TFL as what I saw today was shambles. The 165 driver received loads of abuse bless him when he literally could not fit anyone else onto the double deck. |
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Post by adl on Jul 9, 2024 22:11:58 GMT
Route 165 is becoming somewhat of a safety concern now, currently on 19726 which is packed upstairs and down and also downstairs there is no standing room (gives you an idea of how busy the 165 is which normally uses single deckers!!) we also left people behind in Elm Park because the bus is so full. the single decker behind running right behind it is full to the door as well . The double deck I’m on is so full that people are falling out of the rear door when the door opens. TFL really need to do something about this, the 365 in front of us (double deck) is packed full as well which follows the 165 between Romford Market & Romford Station and between Abbs Cross & South Street (Beam Park) Towards Romford is one of the 9.6m E200s on the 165 which is full and has only just started its journey going past South Hornchurch. I wonder why it's even allocated single deckers if the route can get this busy? I mean if it is capable of taking double deckers and the route has no areas where length is necesssarily an issue, then it should definitely be decked. Unless it just tends to be a route that is only busy sometimes at some parts of the day. For example, the D6 is often quite a busy route during its peak times, but during the weekends and quieter times during the weekdays, it's clear why's a single decker service sometimes. I hope it's retained with double decks, either brand new electrics or perhaps some Smart Hybrids from the 241, 330 or 474! The 165 is always busy, it should have been decked when the 256 got it's deckers in my honest opinion, the 165 is one of the routes that keep growing in numbers as months and years go on. |
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Post by adl on Jul 9, 2024 22:16:07 GMT
Route 165 is becoming somewhat of a safety concern now, currently on 19726 which is packed upstairs and down and also downstairs there is no standing room (gives you an idea of how busy the 165 is which normally uses single deckers!!) we also left people behind in Elm Park because the bus is so full. the single decker behind running right behind it is full to the door as well . The double deck I’m on is so full that people are falling out of the rear door when the door opens. TFL really need to do something about this, the 365 in front of us (double deck) is packed full as well which follows the 165 between Romford Market & Romford Station and between Abbs Cross & South Street (Beam Park) Towards Romford is one of the 9.6m E200s on the 165 which is full and has only just started its journey going past South Hornchurch. Perhaps TfL should be looking into shorts on a route, perhaps the 372 between Hornchurch and Rainham to sure up that corridor. Obviously there are a few factors that could affect this congestion, like the rainfall today which pushes bus passenger numbers up generally. But traffic isn't horrible in the area and buses seem to be on time, however the picture I appreciate would be different to when you posted. I have a rule in my life when taking critiques: if more than one person says the same thing, it's probably true. The member who regularly mentions the troubles on the 365 may not be exaggerating, and the relatively low PVR corridor between Elm Park and Rainham would need support of some kind to address these capacity concerns. I don't think shorts would help, the 165's like the 365 leave Romford very full. The person who comments on the reliability of the 365 regularly must not even use the route it's honestly very reliable and has the odd turn during the peaks to Romford, Parkside Avenue and Elm Park, the issue is the 165 needs a decking and potentially the 365 needs a frequency increase. The 372s are also packed out of Hornchurch generally but I think that's because people are forced onto the 372 over an already packed 165 plus the 372 passengers going beyond Rainham to Lakeside. |
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Post by andyc on Jul 9, 2024 22:50:03 GMT
If this is the case, I think we will see MetroCities on the W12, and BZLs on the W13 and W14. The reason why I say BZLs for the W13 and W14 is because as both are being operated out of LI, it could be the same fleet as the 276. Though I'm not sure why you said the order for W12 is for 8.5m, when it's able to take 9.7m buses, being the 9.7m BZLs or even the 9.5m MetroCities..? Surely if he said its getting 8.5 m then its getting 8.5m? I am sure Stagecoach know what they have ordered.
Absolutely - that was how it was tendered and awarded… However, whilst waiting for those to be delivered, up to 9.7m will be used to cover in the short term, with the W19 being more covered by 10.2m buses which also fit the W19 despite smaller buses having been ordered back in the day… |
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Post by ! ALEED on Jul 9, 2024 23:38:34 GMT
Surely if he said its getting 8.5 m then its getting 8.5m? I am sure Stagecoach know what they have ordered.
Absolutely - that was how it was tendered and awarded… However, whilst waiting for those to be delivered, up to 9.7m will be used to cover in the short term, with the W19 being more covered by 10.2m buses which also fit the W19 despite smaller buses having been ordered back in the day… So I assume that Stagecoach have placed an order for the routes then, as you mention that they are waiting for them to be delivered, rather than an order being placed. Though I assume you won't disclose what model has been selected which is completely understandable given how they may want to stay confidential for now! That's pretty exciting to hear in my opinion, I truly believe these changes to the W routes will truly benefit future users of it, and can oust the old buses away! EDIT: Though I've been doing some research and I don't think that Metrocities are available at 8.5m long, so they might wait till the E100 EV releases which as a matter of fact does have the 8.5m option. |
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Post by routew15 on Jul 9, 2024 23:42:28 GMT
Tendering the new W12 for 8.5m buses, does feel like a retread of familiar territory. The W16 used to use shorter buses and suffered with capacity issues. A similar fate feels likely for the new W12.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 9, 2024 23:46:26 GMT
Absolutely - that was how it was tendered and awarded… However, whilst waiting for those to be delivered, up to 9.7m will be used to cover in the short term, with the W19 being more covered by 10.2m buses which also fit the W19 despite smaller buses having been ordered back in the day… So I assume that Stagecoach have placed an order for the routes then, as you mention that they are waiting for them to be delivered, rather than an order being placed. Though I assume you won't disclose what model has been selected which is completely understandable given how they may want to stay confidential for now! That's pretty exciting to hear in my opinion, I truly believe these changes to the W routes will truly benefit future users of it, and can oust the old buses away! EDIT: Though I've been doing some research and I don't think that Metrocities are available at 8.5m long, so they might wait till the E100 EV releases which as a matter of fact does have the 8.5m option. The single door Metrocity is 8.7m and is currently the shortest electric in use on the regular TfL network |
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Post by ! ALEED on Jul 9, 2024 23:53:26 GMT
So I assume that Stagecoach have placed an order for the routes then, as you mention that they are waiting for them to be delivered, rather than an order being placed. Though I assume you won't disclose what model has been selected which is completely understandable given how they may want to stay confidential for now! That's pretty exciting to hear in my opinion, I truly believe these changes to the W routes will truly benefit future users of it, and can oust the old buses away! EDIT: Though I've been doing some research and I don't think that Metrocities are available at 8.5m long, so they might wait till the E100 EV releases which as a matter of fact does have the 8.5m option. The single door Metrocity is 8.7m and is currently the shortest electric in use on the regular TfL network That's correct! It means they would have the only choice to get the ADL E100 EV. Luckily a TfL spec was released so perhaps it was used to evaluate whether it would be effective for the W12. Attachments:
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Post by cl54 on Jul 10, 2024 5:29:43 GMT
The single door Metrocity is 8.7m and is currently the shortest electric in use on the regular TfL network That's correct! It means they would have the only choice to get the ADL E100 EV. Luckily a TfL spec was released so perhaps it was used to evaluate whether it would be effective for the W12. The spec was issued some months ago but there is still no sign of a demonstrator on the road. It will be next year before any London spec buses enter the production line. |
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Post by DE20106 on Jul 10, 2024 6:17:41 GMT
Surely if he said its getting 8.5 m then its getting 8.5m? I am sure Stagecoach know what they have ordered.
Absolutely - that was how it was tendered and awarded… However, whilst waiting for those to be delivered, up to 9.7m will be used to cover in the short term, with the W19 being more covered by 10.2m buses which also fit the W19 despite smaller buses having been ordered back in the day… Obviously this is a TfL issue but the W12 replacing most of the W14 is 10.9m buses being replaced with 8.5m ones … I don't know in what world TfL thought that would work out. I think there are gonna be complaints made about this very quickly, especially when the current W14 is a busy route in its own right |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 10, 2024 7:04:40 GMT
Absolutely - that was how it was tendered and awarded… However, whilst waiting for those to be delivered, up to 9.7m will be used to cover in the short term, with the W19 being more covered by 10.2m buses which also fit the W19 despite smaller buses having been ordered back in the day… Obviously this is a TfL issue but the W12 replacing most of the W14 is 10.9m buses being replaced with 8.5m ones … I don't know in what world TfL thought that would work out. I think there are gonna be complaints made about this very quickly, especially when the current W14 is a busy route in its own right But isn't the W14 effectively becoming the withdrawn route? With its number pretty much recycled onto the current 549 routing. So while the W14 itself would lose 10.9m vehicles, it should lose most of its patronage as well. |
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