|
|
Post by DE20106 on Jul 10, 2024 7:14:12 GMT
Obviously this is a TfL issue but the W12 replacing most of the W14 is 10.9m buses being replaced with 8.5m ones … I don't know in what world TfL thought that would work out. I think there are gonna be complaints made about this very quickly, especially when the current W14 is a busy route in its own right But isn't the W14 effectively becoming the withdrawn route? With its number pretty much recycled onto the current 549 routing. So while the W14 itself would lose 10.9m vehicles, it should lose most of its patronage as well. Not necessarily as the W14 bit that’s moving over will pretty much be covered by the new W12, so if people cotton onto the change up quickly it probably won’t lose all the customers with it. And the very section that the existing W14 will be replaced with will be with 8.5m vehicles. It will be especially prevalent given it will temporarily run with 9.7m vehicles while the changes are ‘bedding in’, and then when passengers are used to the new changes they’ll notice shiny, but tiny new buses on the route (good rhyme🤣), it probably won’t go down well as it will be very noticeable to passengers |
|
|
|
Post by WH241 on Jul 10, 2024 8:39:56 GMT
Obviously this is a TfL issue but the W12 replacing most of the W14 is 10.9m buses being replaced with 8.5m ones … I don't know in what world TfL thought that would work out. I think there are gonna be complaints made about this very quickly, especially when the current W14 is a busy route in its own right But isn't the W14 effectively becoming the withdrawn route? With its number pretty much recycled onto the current 549 routing. So while the W14 itself would lose 10.9m vehicles, it should lose most of its patronage as well. As others have said the new W12 pretty much covers the old W14 as far as Leytonstone which is the busiest section. This is a big downgrade for passengers in the Woodford area towards Leyton. The renumbering was bad enough but to end up lowering the capacity of buses is a bit of a kick in the teeth. I am not sure who thought this whole scheme was a good idea. |
|
|
|
Post by WH241 on Jul 10, 2024 10:03:22 GMT
Absolutely - that was how it was tendered and awarded… However, whilst waiting for those to be delivered, up to 9.7m will be used to cover in the short term, with the W19 being more covered by 10.2m buses which also fit the W19 despite smaller buses having been ordered back in the day… So I assume that Stagecoach have placed an order for the routes then, as you mention that they are waiting for them to be delivered, rather than an order being placed. Though I assume you won't disclose what model has been selected which is completely understandable given how they may want to stay confidential for now! That's pretty exciting to hear in my opinion, I truly believe these changes to the W routes will truly benefit future users of it, and can oust the old buses away! EDIT: Though I've been doing some research and I don't think that Metrocities are available at 8.5m long, so they might wait till the E100 EV releases which as a matter of fact does have the 8.5m option. Think you are in the small minority who think these changes will benefit passengers! The only passengers who really gain are those in the old 549 corridor who get a more frequent service. The others are left with changes to routes, loss of direct service and smaller buses. |
|
|
|
Post by DE20106 on Jul 10, 2024 10:31:22 GMT
So I assume that Stagecoach have placed an order for the routes then, as you mention that they are waiting for them to be delivered, rather than an order being placed. Though I assume you won't disclose what model has been selected which is completely understandable given how they may want to stay confidential for now! That's pretty exciting to hear in my opinion, I truly believe these changes to the W routes will truly benefit future users of it, and can oust the old buses away! EDIT: Though I've been doing some research and I don't think that Metrocities are available at 8.5m long, so they might wait till the E100 EV releases which as a matter of fact does have the 8.5m option. Think you are in the small minority who think these changes will benefit passengers! The only passengers who really gain are those in the old 549 corridor who get a more frequent service. The others are left with changes to routes, loss of direct service and smaller buses. Yeah I think someone has made a real gaffe and forgot/didn’t consider what buses would be replacing the existing W14, a real kick in the teeth as you said. As for OP who mentioned the changes are an improvement pretty much due to the routes getting new ADL 100s, I’d much rather a 12 year old large bus arrived that could take everyone comfortably, over a new one where we have to cram in like sardines. Or even worse, get left behind and have a long wait until the next one, trust me 15 minutes feels like a long time when you’re sitting at a bus stop waiting |
|
|
|
Post by MKAY315 on Jul 10, 2024 11:33:04 GMT
In the unlikely event is there a way to reverse the order to potentially order longer vehicles. If it has been set in stone then the only other way to make a change would be for people living on that line of the route to do a petition for larger buses. This is similar to when Val Shawcross campaigned for a while to get double deckers on the 78 as an example.
|
|
|
|
Post by routew15 on Jul 10, 2024 16:36:07 GMT
[quote author =" DE20106" source="/post/822352/thread" timestamp="1720607482"] Think you are in the small minority who think these changes will benefit passengers! The only passengers who really gain are those in the old 549 corridor who get a more frequent service. The others are left with changes to routes, loss of direct service and smaller buses. Yeah I think someone has made a real gaffe and forgot/didn’t consider what buses would be replacing the existing W14, a real kick in the teeth as you said. As for OP who mentioned the changes are an improvement pretty much due to the routes getting new ADL 100s, I’d much rather a 12 year old large bus arrived that could take everyone comfortably, over a new one where we have to cram in like sardines. Or even worse, get left behind and have a long wait until the next one, trust me 15 minutes feels like a long time when you’re sitting at a bus stop waiting [/quote] This exactly what used to happen to the W16 before it gained dual door buses. I was really hoping the 385 and 379 were going to be the last single door bus routes in Waltham Forest. |
|
|
|
Post by WH241 on Jul 10, 2024 16:49:42 GMT
Surely if he said its getting 8.5 m then its getting 8.5m? I am sure Stagecoach know what they have ordered.
That's not what I meant. I meant as in if the W12 is able to take longer buses, and if the PVR is also being doubled, it should perhaps get the best length for it, being 9.5m MetroCities or 9.7m BZLs like the VMSS's at Metroline. But yes, I am sure Stagecoach know what they've ordered and the best for the route, after all they are the ones operating it. I'm just hoping it's not a similar situation like the 366 where it could've gotten longer buses but they decided to get shorter ones instead. I think you are might misunderstood what is happening. The PVR is not doubling its just TfL have been crafty with the wording.
The old W14 is in reality the new W12 still with the 15 min frequency.
The new W14 is the old 549 which does get a frequency boost.
|
|
|
|
Post by wirewiper on Jul 10, 2024 17:23:06 GMT
That's not what I meant. I meant as in if the W12 is able to take longer buses, and if the PVR is also being doubled, it should perhaps get the best length for it, being 9.5m MetroCities or 9.7m BZLs like the VMSS's at Metroline. But yes, I am sure Stagecoach know what they've ordered and the best for the route, after all they are the ones operating it. I'm just hoping it's not a similar situation like the 366 where it could've gotten longer buses but they decided to get shorter ones instead. I think you are might misunderstood what is happening. The PVR is not doubling its just TfL have been crafty with the wording.
The old W14 is in reality the new W12 still with the 15 min frequency.
The new W14 is the old 549 which does get a frequency boost.
I think there is a lot of confusion between the old W14 and the new W14. Perhaps the number should have been retired and W10 used for the new route. Also don't forget that the Leytonstone and Leyton end of the current W14 is replaced by the extension of the W13 which uses larger buses. |
|
|
|
Post by WH241 on Jul 10, 2024 17:33:19 GMT
I think you are might misunderstood what is happening. The PVR is not doubling its just TfL have been crafty with the wording.
The old W14 is in reality the new W12 still with the 15 min frequency.
The new W14 is the old 549 which does get a frequency boost.
I think there is a lot of confusion between the old W14 and the new W14. Perhaps the number should have been retired and W10 used for the new route. Also don't forget that the Leytonstone and Leyton end of the current W14 is replaced by the extension of the W13 which uses larger buses. I do think numbers should be changed when routes have major restructuring. The revised W14 runs far too close to the old route and will potentially catch out passengers. |
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Jul 10, 2024 17:37:56 GMT
I think there is a lot of confusion between the old W14 and the new W14. Perhaps the number should have been retired and W10 used for the new route. Also don't forget that the Leytonstone and Leyton end of the current W14 is replaced by the extension of the W13 which uses larger buses. I do think numbers should be changed when routes have major restructuring. The revised W14 runs far too close to the old route and will potentially catch out passengers. I agree when there is alot of swapping about. The fact the 549 is largely intact would have made sense for a new 449 to replace it and parts of the W12/W14. The S4 I think was simpler to explain really with withdrawn between X and X and extended to X and therfore could remain. |
|
|
|
Post by TB123 on Jul 11, 2024 10:06:42 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by DE20106 on Jul 11, 2024 10:29:19 GMT
Very likely to be SL3 I think as you said (PVR 15), don’t think they’d order order 1 spare for the 257 (PVR 16) So glad these are coming to London, can’t WAIT to see these!! If these go to the SL3 it’ll be a MASSIVE upgrade to the LTs. We’ve just got to wait and see now if the reason why we’ve heard nothing about the 151 and 473 is because there’s a hidden order of these for those routes! |
|
|
|
Post by Dad91 on Jul 11, 2024 10:47:06 GMT
Stagecoach London gonna get new E400 and E100 MMC MK1 gen buses gonna look awesome |
|
|
|
Post by ADH45258 on Jul 11, 2024 10:57:47 GMT
Very likely to be SL3 I think as you said (PVR 15), don’t think they’d order order 1 spare for the 257 (PVR 16) So glad these are coming to London, can’t WAIT to see these!! If these go to the SL3 it’ll be a MASSIVE upgrade to the LTs. We’ve just got to wait and see now if the reason why we’ve heard nothing about the 151 and 473 is because there’s a hidden order of these for those routes! Yes the SL3 would make sense, and perhaps Stagecoach will order more for the 169/247/287 too? I wonder if Stagecoach will now standardise with ADL EVs, or continue to order BZLs etc alongside? Also now it's confirmed that the integral ADL EVs are available to TFL spec, could we see some more orders from other operators? |
|
|
|
Post by TB123 on Jul 11, 2024 10:59:56 GMT
Very likely to be SL3 I think as you said (PVR 15), don’t think they’d order order 1 spare for the 257 (PVR 16) So glad these are coming to London, can’t WAIT to see these!! If these go to the SL3 it’ll be a MASSIVE upgrade to the LTs. We’ve just got to wait and see now if the reason why we’ve heard nothing about the 151 and 473 is because there’s a hidden order of these for those routes! Yes the SL3 would make sense, and perhaps Stagecoach will order more for the 169/247/287 too? I wonder if Stagecoach will now standardise with ADL EVs, or continue to order BZLs etc alongside? Also now it's confirmed that the integral ADL EVs are available to TFL spec, could we see some more orders from other operators? I'd be surprised to see widespread standardisation on account of the lead times for many of these orders. 257 is reportedly having Electroliners ordered as well as this ADL order so I suspect dual/tri-sourcing is here to stay. |
|
