|
Post by WH241 on Oct 21, 2023 11:57:11 GMT
Just would have loved to see the look of the guy with the rose tinted glasses face reading the reveal of the SL2. The company was unfortunate over not securing the el routes and a few others which was ultimately spelling the death bed for [DX] The good thing is in the South some of the routes that were not in favour of being secured has been with the combined group bid I don't have an issue with DX winning it, the issue starts when every bus will now end up turned short at Barking in masses when something goes wrong on the A406. Still got the 150 and 175 to go, would assume any benefit DX gets will be reliant on both those routes staying. And what makes you think any other operators wouldn’t do the same? The SL2 is going to be a very challenging route regardless of who runs it with the A13 close by,A406 and Ilford Lane causing issues.
|
|
|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 21, 2023 11:59:58 GMT
I don't have an issue with DX winning it, the issue starts when every bus will now end up turned short at Barking in masses when something goes wrong on the A406. Still got the 150 and 175 to go, would assume any benefit DX gets will be reliant on both those routes staying. And what makes you think any other operators wouldn’t do the same? The SL2 is going to be a very challenging route regardless of who runs it with the A13 close by,A406 and Ilford Lane causing issues. Because other operators don't have a habit of shutting down portions of the route every week?
|
|
|
Post by SouthLondoner468 on Oct 21, 2023 12:02:50 GMT
I'm hoping for Kites too, although a slight question mark if they fit because they are 10.9m and the 255 has only ever used 10.2m fleet. Can the 255 take longer buses? Can't think of any issue off the top of my head. It has used ENXs a few times before, but not regularly. TH would rather put ENSs than ENXs on the 255, so perhaps it’s a very tight squeeze
|
|
|
Post by DT 11 on Oct 21, 2023 12:05:45 GMT
Just would have loved to see the look of the guy with the rose tinted glasses face reading the reveal of the SL2. The company was unfortunate over not securing the el routes and a few others which was ultimately spelling the death bed for [DX] The good thing is in the South some of the routes that were not in favour of being secured has been with the combined group bid I don't have an issue with DX winning it, the issue starts when every bus will now end up turned short at Barking in masses when something goes wrong on the A406. Still got the 150 and 175 to go, would assume any benefit DX gets will be reliant on both those routes staying. The route has not begun yet how exactly do you know that all the buses will be turned at Barking… You mentioned the same thing about the SL1 being curtailed to Crooked Billet because of the 34. Overall the operators will do what TFL want. Service delays 30% Rule turn every bus and send one bus through an hour until the delays have finished any controller will tell you this. At least let the route start off first then you can start your usual criticism… snoggle RIP always commented on the 123 I know he would give us his honest views of the SL2 on a weekly basis and would be happy to know that the 123 is finally getting some assistance. In addition I like how you waited until page 8 of the tender thread to finally comment. Did you have a moment of shock? Now already making criticism of something that has not begun yet.
|
|
|
Post by DE20106 on Oct 21, 2023 12:19:37 GMT
Wright are very quick at delivering. The batch for the 64 is complete, it's more a case of infrastructure slowing down the entry to service. I think the Electroliner is excellent. Much better than the BYD product if you ask me. Hoping to see lots more ordered by Arriva for this group of results. Interested to see what 255 gets..... I guess it’s all opinion based but I think the BYD wipes the floor with the Electroliner. I find it very very underwhelming, and I’ve never been a fan of the claustrophobic small windows on the top deck, on any newer Wright product. Ive been wondering why I’ve always found the newest Wright products quite poor (looking at you diesel Streetdeck) and I think I’ve found the answer: they haven’t innovated. Since Wrightbus brought out the Gemini 1 in 2001, it’s barely changed since then. The Gemini 2 in 2009 was merely a facelift with a snazzy new front light arrangement (although I’m not knocking it, the G2 is one of my favourite buses ever), and when the G3 came out, it was another facelift of the same bodywork, just with more angular front lights, worse build quality and smaller windows. And two of those things aren’t improvements. So essentially apart from a couple of tweaks which arguably make the bus worse, it’s underneath a very very similar product to what they bought out in 2001. Apart from Wright bringing out their own integral version of the bus in the form of the StreetDeck in 2015, which to be blunt is one of the very worst buses ever made. It hardly sets the industry alight. No wonder their offering now feels a bit long in the tooth imo. The angular design (which has been unchanged for nearly TEN years now), has ages fairly well imo, but not much else about the bus has. Take ADL on the other scale who have completely reinvented the model every time its life cycle ends. The Enviro400 was a total reinvention of the ALX400. The MMC and City was completely reinvented from the ground up. And the new integral E400EV coming next year will do the same thing, it’s been completely redesigned. ADL products are certainly not without their issues, but at least they go for it with their designs. Wright just keep making more of the same, and I really think they need to come up with something brand new to compete with the new E400EV coming, not just ‘redesign’ the Electroliner with some new slimmer front headlights
|
|
|
Post by TB123 on Oct 21, 2023 12:33:44 GMT
I think the Electroliner is excellent. Much better than the BYD product if you ask me. Hoping to see lots more ordered by Arriva for this group of results. Interested to see what 255 gets..... I guess it’s all opinion based but I think the BYD wipes the floor with the Electroliner. I find it very very underwhelming, and I’ve never been a fan of the claustrophobic small windows on the top deck, on any newer Wright product. Ive been wondering why I’ve always found the newest Wright products quite poor (looking at you diesel Streetdeck) and I think I’ve found the answer: they haven’t innovated. Since Wrightbus brought out the Gemini 1 in 2001, it’s barely changed since then. The Gemini 2 in 2009 was merely a facelift with a snazzy new front light arrangement (although I’m not knocking it, the G2 is one of my favourite buses ever), and when the G3 came out, it was another facelift of the same bodywork, just with more angular front lights, worse build quality and smaller windows. And two of those things aren’t improvements. So essentially apart from a couple of tweaks which arguably make the bus worse, it’s underneath a very very similar product to what they bought out in 2001. Apart from Wright bringing out their own integral version of the bus in the form of the StreetDeck in 2015, which to be blunt is one of the very worst buses ever made. It hardly sets the industry alight. No wonder their offering now feels a bit long in the tooth imo. The angular design (which has been unchanged for nearly TEN years now), has ages fairly well imo, but not much else about the bus has. Take ADL on the other scale who have completely reinvented the model every time its life cycle ends. The Enviro400 was a total reinvention of the ALX400. The MMC and City was completely reinvented from the ground up. And the new integral E400EV coming next year will do the same thing, it’s been completely redesigned. ADL products are certainly not without their issues, but at least they go for it with their designs. Wright just keep making more of the same, and I really think they need to come up with something brand new to compete with the new E400EV coming, not just ‘redesign’ the Electroliner with some new slimmer front headlights The BYD range is quite a bit worse than rivals, including the Electroliner. As for the downstairs layout on the E400EVs.....appalling.
|
|
|
Post by busoccultation on Oct 21, 2023 12:34:54 GMT
snoggle RIP always commented on the 123 I know he would give us his honest views of the SL2 on a weekly basis and would be happy to know that the 123 is finally getting some assistance. I can also confirm the SL2 will certainly be useful already, I used a 123 on Thursday morning that was absolutely rammed leaving Gants Hill with all the seats taken on both decks and standing loads that it was actually leaving people behind at stops along Woodford Avenue, a lot of people travelling from Ilford or Gants Hill on the 123 do tend to get off on Forest Road between Wood Street and Hoe Street/the Bell. Finally much need assistance on the route and as I said yesterday I'm happy that SL2 is under the same operator as the 123. I can remember the days around 2016/17 when the 123 was generally a nightmare to use with extra loads to having to cope with GOBLIN being closed and VLA's being a huge problem for being unreliable and noisy from the cooling fans.
|
|
|
Post by abellion on Oct 21, 2023 12:39:15 GMT
I think the Electroliner is excellent. Much better than the BYD product if you ask me. Hoping to see lots more ordered by Arriva for this group of results. Interested to see what 255 gets..... I guess it’s all opinion based but I think the BYD wipes the floor with the Electroliner. I find it very very underwhelming, and I’ve never been a fan of the claustrophobic small windows on the top deck, on any newer Wright product. Ive been wondering why I’ve always found the newest Wright products quite poor (looking at you diesel Streetdeck) and I think I’ve found the answer: they haven’t innovated. Since Wrightbus brought out the Gemini 1 in 2001, it’s barely changed since then. The Gemini 2 in 2009 was merely a facelift with a snazzy new front light arrangement (although I’m not knocking it, the G2 is one of my favourite buses ever), and when the G3 came out, it was another facelift of the same bodywork, just with more angular front lights, worse build quality and smaller windows. And two of those things aren’t improvements. So essentially apart from a couple of tweaks which arguably make the bus worse, it’s underneath a very very similar product to what they bought out in 2001. Apart from Wright bringing out their own integral version of the bus in the form of the StreetDeck in 2015, which to be blunt is one of the very worst buses ever made. It hardly sets the industry alight. No wonder their offering now feels a bit long in the tooth imo. The angular design (which has been unchanged for nearly TEN years now), has ages fairly well imo, but not much else about the bus has. Take ADL on the other scale who have completely reinvented the model every time its life cycle ends. The Enviro400 was a total reinvention of the ALX400. The MMC and City was completely reinvented from the ground up. And the new integral E400EV coming next year will do the same thing, it’s been completely redesigned. ADL products are certainly not without their issues, but at least they go for it with their designs. Wright just keep making more of the same, and I really think they need to come up with something brand new to compete with the new E400EV coming, not just ‘redesign’ the Electroliner with some new slimmer front headlights This might be a bit of new toy syndrome but I prefer Electroliners already for the downstairs seating, slightly ironic because Volvo’s B5LHs have a worse downstairs layout than the ADL Enviro 400 and now the tables have turned.
|
|
|
Post by mkay315 on Oct 21, 2023 12:39:35 GMT
snoggle RIP always commented on the 123 I know he would give us his honest views of the SL2 on a weekly basis and would be happy to know that the 123 is finally getting some assistance. I can also confirm the SL2 will certainly be useful already, I used a 123 on Thursday morning that was absolutely rammed leaving Gants Hill with all the seats taken on both decks and standing loads that it was actually leaving people behind at stops along Woodford Avenue, a lot of people travelling from Ilford or Gants Hill on the 123 do tend to get off on Forest Road between Wood Street and Hoe Street/the Bell. Finally much need assistance on the route and as I said yesterday I'm happy that SL2 is under the same operator as the 123. I can remember the days around 2016/17 when the 123 was generally a nightmare to use with extra loads to having to cope with GOBLIN being closed and VLA's being a huge problem for being unreliable and noisy from the cooling fans.
Not to mention my prayers have finally been answered with a needed link between Gants Hill and Barking being restored.
|
|
|
Post by DE20106 on Oct 21, 2023 12:40:04 GMT
I guess it’s all opinion based but I think the BYD wipes the floor with the Electroliner. I find it very very underwhelming, and I’ve never been a fan of the claustrophobic small windows on the top deck, on any newer Wright product. Ive been wondering why I’ve always found the newest Wright products quite poor (looking at you diesel Streetdeck) and I think I’ve found the answer: they haven’t innovated. Since Wrightbus brought out the Gemini 1 in 2001, it’s barely changed since then. The Gemini 2 in 2009 was merely a facelift with a snazzy new front light arrangement (although I’m not knocking it, the G2 is one of my favourite buses ever), and when the G3 came out, it was another facelift of the same bodywork, just with more angular front lights, worse build quality and smaller windows. And two of those things aren’t improvements. So essentially apart from a couple of tweaks which arguably make the bus worse, it’s underneath a very very similar product to what they bought out in 2001. Apart from Wright bringing out their own integral version of the bus in the form of the StreetDeck in 2015, which to be blunt is one of the very worst buses ever made. It hardly sets the industry alight. No wonder their offering now feels a bit long in the tooth imo. The angular design (which has been unchanged for nearly TEN years now), has ages fairly well imo, but not much else about the bus has. Take ADL on the other scale who have completely reinvented the model every time its life cycle ends. The Enviro400 was a total reinvention of the ALX400. The MMC and City was completely reinvented from the ground up. And the new integral E400EV coming next year will do the same thing, it’s been completely redesigned. ADL products are certainly not without their issues, but at least they go for it with their designs. Wright just keep making more of the same, and I really think they need to come up with something brand new to compete with the new E400EV coming, not just ‘redesign’ the Electroliner with some new slimmer front headlights The BYD range is quite a bit worse than rivals, including the Electroliner. As for the downstairs layout on the E400EVs.....appalling. They’re not without faults I know that, but nor is the Electroliner. They can’t be that bad when there’s a year’s waiting list to order them! From a travelling passenger point of view, it’s no contest for me. Can’t say the downstairs seating layout affects me though as I’m definitely not that tall
|
|
|
Post by TB123 on Oct 21, 2023 12:47:02 GMT
The BYD range is quite a bit worse than rivals, including the Electroliner. As for the downstairs layout on the E400EVs.....appalling. They’re not without faults I know that, but nor is the Electroliner. They can’t be that bad when there’s a year’s waiting list to order them! From a travelling passenger point of view, it’s no contest for me. Can’t say the downstairs seating layout affects me though as I’m definitely not that tall It's interesting to note the BYD orders are bulked out by 2 operators placing volume orders, GAL and NXWM. There isn't much else in the way of orders. Rivals meanwhile have a much more order diverse orderbook which is interesting indeed.
|
|
|
Post by DE20106 on Oct 21, 2023 12:52:34 GMT
They’re not without faults I know that, but nor is the Electroliner. They can’t be that bad when there’s a year’s waiting list to order them! From a travelling passenger point of view, it’s no contest for me. Can’t say the downstairs seating layout affects me though as I’m definitely not that tall It's interesting to note the BYD orders are bulked out by 2 operators placing volume orders, GAL and NXWM. There isn't much else in the way of orders. Rivals meanwhile have a much more order diverse orderbook which is interesting indeed. Okay that’s in interesting point that I hadn’t considered, but could that also be to do with operators waiting for the new E400EV to come out, and operators have made early orders for that instead? We’re not sure what the order book is looking like for that yet I certainly won’t be surprised to see BYD/E400 City orders die a slow death after the new ADL E400EV’s release
|
|
|
Post by SILENCED on Oct 21, 2023 13:05:27 GMT
It's interesting to note the BYD orders are bulked out by 2 operators placing volume orders, GAL and NXWM. There isn't much else in the way of orders. Rivals meanwhile have a much more order diverse orderbook which is interesting indeed. Okay that’s in interesting point that I hadn’t considered, but could that also be to do with operators waiting for the new E400EV to come out, and operators have made early orders for that instead? We’re not sure what the order book is looking like for that yet I certainly won’t be surprised to see BYD/E400 City orders die a slow death after the new ADL E400EV’s release I think BYD are worried about this which is why they seem to be teaming up with Univ to produce a double decker.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Oct 21, 2023 13:06:26 GMT
I think the Electroliner is excellent. Much better than the BYD product if you ask me. Hoping to see lots more ordered by Arriva for this group of results. Interested to see what 255 gets..... I guess it’s all opinion based but I think the BYD wipes the floor with the Electroliner. I find it very very underwhelming, and I’ve never been a fan of the claustrophobic small windows on the top deck, on any newer Wright product. Ive been wondering why I’ve always found the newest Wright products quite poor (looking at you diesel Streetdeck) and I think I’ve found the answer: they haven’t innovated. Since Wrightbus brought out the Gemini 1 in 2001, it’s barely changed since then. The Gemini 2 in 2009 was merely a facelift with a snazzy new front light arrangement (although I’m not knocking it, the G2 is one of my favourite buses ever), and when the G3 came out, it was another facelift of the same bodywork, just with more angular front lights, worse build quality and smaller windows. And two of those things aren’t improvements. So essentially apart from a couple of tweaks which arguably make the bus worse, it’s underneath a very very similar product to what they bought out in 2001. Apart from Wright bringing out their own integral version of the bus in the form of the StreetDeck in 2015, which to be blunt is one of the very worst buses ever made. It hardly sets the industry alight. No wonder their offering now feels a bit long in the tooth imo. The angular design (which has been unchanged for nearly TEN years now), has ages fairly well imo, but not much else about the bus has. Take ADL on the other scale who have completely reinvented the model every time its life cycle ends. The Enviro400 was a total reinvention of the ALX400. The MMC and City was completely reinvented from the ground up. And the new integral E400EV coming next year will do the same thing, it’s been completely redesigned. ADL products are certainly not without their issues, but at least they go for it with their designs. Wright just keep making more of the same, and I really think they need to come up with something brand new to compete with the new E400EV coming, not just ‘redesign’ the Electroliner with some new slimmer front headlights Indeed, it is all opinion based and great to see different opinions as always - whilst the BYD is not terrible by any means, that terrible rear downstairs seating room is very poor for an operator who has previous for this with the dreadful pre WTA Enviro 200's and on Scania & MAN Enviro 200's. In comparison, the exterior of the Electroliner is still not my cup of tea at all but inside, it's superior personally especially the Abellio ones with the glass panels - really looking to the 133 examples. The Enviro 400 double deck bodies have all been good lookers and I've always preferred the look of them over the Gemini range but in terms of riding the bus, the Gemini models trump most of them IMO especially when comparing the Gemini2 (both B9TL & VDL)
|
|
|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 21, 2023 13:18:14 GMT
I don't have an issue with DX winning it, the issue starts when every bus will now end up turned short at Barking in masses when something goes wrong on the A406. Still got the 150 and 175 to go, would assume any benefit DX gets will be reliant on both those routes staying. The route has not begun yet how exactly do you know that all the buses will be turned at Barking… You mentioned the same thing about the SL1 being curtailed to Crooked Billet because of the 34. Overall the operators will do what TFL want. Service delays 30% Rule turn every bus and send one bus through an hour until the delays have finished any controller will tell you this. At least let the route start off first then you can start your usual criticism… snoggle RIP always commented on the 123 I know he would give us his honest views of the SL2 on a weekly basis and would be happy to know that the 123 is finally getting some assistance. In addition I like how you waited until page 8 of the tender thread to finally comment. Did you have a moment of shock? Now already making criticism of something that has not begun yet. No, I was at work and also have a life so I cannot constantly be on the forum 24/7 This company are guilty until proved innocent. If the SL2 runs fine then that's what I want, but there's no reason to believe it will.
|
|