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Post by vjaska on Sept 8, 2024 17:54:56 GMT
A few ideas of how to change/weak/improve (use word as you wish) the bus network in inner South London - particularly interested to see what our esteemed local member vjaska says in response to these 3 - diverted at Millbank to Whitehall Horse Guards 4 - withdrawn between Blackfriars and St Pauls. Diverted to Waterloo via 59 LoR 11 - diverted at King's Road to Hammersmith via 211 LoR 12 - frequency adjusted to 6bph 14 - withdrawn between Russell Square and Tottenham Court Road. Diverted to Holborn. Frequency adjusted to 8bph 37 - frequency adjusted to 7.5bph 40 - withdrawn between Clerkenwell and Elephant. Extended to Tottenham Court Road via 171 LoR. Frequency adjusted to 6bph. 42 - frequency adjusted to 5bph 45 - withdrawn 47 - diverted to Liverpool Street bus station 53 - withdrawn between Waterloo and Elephant and diverted to run directly Woolwich and Plumstead 54 - withdrawn between Catford garage and Elmers End. Extended to Plumstead via 53 LoR 57 - frequency adjusted to 6bph 59 - withdrawn between Holborn and St Bart's. Extended to Russell Square, and Euston if stand space permits. 74 - withdrawn between Marble Arch and Baker Street. Extended to Roehampton via 430 LoR. 93 - frequency adjusted to 6bph 98 - extended from Holborn to London Bridge via LoR N109 - 159 night service renumbered as N109 118 - frequency adjusted to 6bph 133 - withdrawn between Holborn and Monument. Diverted to Liverpool Street station 148 - withdrawn between White City and Shepherd's Bush 159 - night service withdrawn 170 - withdrawn between Victoria and Clapham Junction. Converted to double decker 171 - present out of service run to Downham 'livened up' 172 - withdrawn between Holborn and Elephant. Extended to Clerkenwell via 40 LoR 176 - withdrawn between Tottenham Court Road and Elephant 190 - extended from West Brompton to South Kensington via 430 LoR. Converted to double deckers 199 - extended from Catford garage to Elmers End via 54 LoR 211 - diverted at King's Road to Fulham Broadway via 11 LoR and extended to Peckham via 436 LoR 227 - frequency adjusted to 6bph 239 - new route from Clapham Junction to Victoria via 170 LoR. Frequency of 8bph 322 - extended to Shaftesbury Estate via Clapham South and G1 LoR 343 - withdrawn between Aldgate and Tower Gateway 345 - withdrawn between Brixton and Peckham 360 - extended to Victoria via C10 and 3 LoR 410 - withdrawn 414 - withdrawn 415 - extended to New Bermondsey and Canada Water 430 - withdrawn 432 - extended to Elmers End 433 - extended to Wallington via 410 LoR 436 - withdrawn 445 - new route from Lewisham to Clapham Junction via 436 and 35 LoR. Frequency of 6bph 449 - new route from Norbury Crescent to Lower Sydenham via Norbury Hill, Beulah Hill, Church Road, Crystal Palace and 410 LoR. Frequency of 5bph 450/451 - withdrawn between Lower Sydenham and Crystal Palace. Merged with 410 to become a circular West Croydon-Thornton Heath-Crystal Palace- South Norwood-West Croydon service, numbered 450 clockwise, 451 anti-clockwise. Frequency adjusted to 7.5bph 493 - withdrawn between Roehampton and Richmond G1 - withdrawn between Clapham South and Shaftesbury Estate. Diverted to Clapham Common. Frequency adjusted to 5bph using 10.2m single deckers. P5 - extended to Battersea Power station. Frequency adjusted to 5bph P12 - frequency adjusted to 5bph SL(?) - new express route from Richmond to Streatham via Roehampton, Wimbledon and Tooting. Frequency of 5bph using double deckers SL(?) - new express route from Woolwich to Oxford Circus via 53 and 453 LoR. Frequency of 6bph using double deckers SL(?) - new express route from Lewisham to Aldwych via 21 and 172 LoR. Frequency of 7.5bph using double deckers SL(?) - new express route from Bromley North to Wandsworth via 227, 417 and 37 LoR. Frequency of 5bph using long single deckers SL(?) - new express route from Crystal Palace to Canning Town via 122 and 202 LoRs to Catford, Lewisham, Blackheath/Sun-in-Sands roundabout and Silvertown Tunnel. Frequency of 5bph using double deckers SL(?) - new express route from Eltham to Streatham via South Circular and Brixton Hill. Frequency of 5bph using long single deckers SL(?) - new express route from North Greenwich to Orpington via 132, 126 (though avoiding Grove Park estate using the B226 in entirety) and 61 LoR. Frequency of 5bph using double deckers SL(?) - new express route from Hammersmith to North Cheam via 220 and 93 LoR. Frequnecy of 5bph using double deckers I don't agree with the changes to 47 and 53 - they both break useful links which are well-used (Shoreditch, County Hall and Plumstead Common for the city link). The 199 extension to Elmers End isn't a bad shout but it may affect the reliability of the route. Alternatively, 171 could maybe take on the extension as it goes through less traffic hotspots than the 199. A 415 extension to Canada Water while serving the future Surrey Canal Road station at the same time isn't possible unless the route becomes single deck. There is a low bridge on the northern end of Surrey Canal Road which is one out of two low bridges in the area that also prevents 225 using deckers. 445 seems like a waste. It may be more beneficial to extend 436 to Clapham Junction instead with 345 left as it is. I quite like the 445 idea in all honesty - 345 is a route of two halves with people from Peckham going no further than Clapham at a push and likewise for those from South Kensington and South London could do with far better eats to west links. The 445 also would allow longer distance travellers to not rely on the P4 which isn't the most reliable route and suffers from capacity issues as well. With the 118 no longer terminating in Brixton once the consultation goes through, the 345 would have stand space in Brixton as well. I think the 436 could remain as it is as I'm less convinced about the 211 running all the way to Peckham
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Post by TB123 on Sept 8, 2024 18:00:34 GMT
An alternative to the W & 549 changes: W12 - Retain old routing between Walthamstow, Coppermill Lane & Georges Lane, then diverts to Loughton via the old 549/current W14 routing. Frequency every 20 minutes with every 2nd bus terminating at South Woodford Station so every 40 minutes beyond South Woodford to Loughton W13 - Follow the new changes entirely so extended to Leyton, Retail Park via the W14's old routing W14 - Revised as Leytonstone Station (taking W13's former spot) to Woodford Bridge via the older routing but diverted via the W12's former back roads & Hermon Hill before re-joining line of route at Snaresbrook 549 - Still withdrawn Not by any means perfect and knowing my luck, I've probably cocked up somewhere but each route still retains some resemblance to it's older routing and lessens the confusion some what Wouldn’t Wanstead lose its direct link to Whips Cross with these changes? One of the objectives of the changes was to have a faster link. I like most of the other ideas though
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Post by greenboy on Sept 8, 2024 19:56:24 GMT
A few ideas of how to change/weak/improve (use word as you wish) the bus network in inner South London - particularly interested to see what our esteemed local member vjaska says in response to these 3 - diverted at Millbank to Whitehall Horse Guards 4 - withdrawn between Blackfriars and St Pauls. Diverted to Waterloo via 59 LoR 11 - diverted at King's Road to Hammersmith via 211 LoR 12 - frequency adjusted to 6bph 14 - withdrawn between Russell Square and Tottenham Court Road. Diverted to Holborn. Frequency adjusted to 8bph 37 - frequency adjusted to 7.5bph 40 - withdrawn between Clerkenwell and Elephant. Extended to Tottenham Court Road via 171 LoR. Frequency adjusted to 6bph. 42 - frequency adjusted to 5bph 45 - withdrawn 47 - diverted to Liverpool Street bus station 53 - withdrawn between Waterloo and Elephant and diverted to run directly Woolwich and Plumstead 54 - withdrawn between Catford garage and Elmers End. Extended to Plumstead via 53 LoR 57 - frequency adjusted to 6bph 59 - withdrawn between Holborn and St Bart's. Extended to Russell Square, and Euston if stand space permits. 74 - withdrawn between Marble Arch and Baker Street. Extended to Roehampton via 430 LoR. 93 - frequency adjusted to 6bph 98 - extended from Holborn to London Bridge via LoR N109 - 159 night service renumbered as N109 118 - frequency adjusted to 6bph 133 - withdrawn between Holborn and Monument. Diverted to Liverpool Street station 148 - withdrawn between White City and Shepherd's Bush 159 - night service withdrawn 170 - withdrawn between Victoria and Clapham Junction. Converted to double decker 171 - present out of service run to Downham 'livened up' 172 - withdrawn between Holborn and Elephant. Extended to Clerkenwell via 40 LoR 176 - withdrawn between Tottenham Court Road and Elephant 190 - extended from West Brompton to South Kensington via 430 LoR. Converted to double deckers 199 - extended from Catford garage to Elmers End via 54 LoR 211 - diverted at King's Road to Fulham Broadway via 11 LoR and extended to Peckham via 436 LoR 227 - frequency adjusted to 6bph 239 - new route from Clapham Junction to Victoria via 170 LoR. Frequency of 8bph 322 - extended to Shaftesbury Estate via Clapham South and G1 LoR 343 - withdrawn between Aldgate and Tower Gateway 345 - withdrawn between Brixton and Peckham 360 - extended to Victoria via C10 and 3 LoR 410 - withdrawn 414 - withdrawn 415 - extended to New Bermondsey and Canada Water 430 - withdrawn 432 - extended to Elmers End 433 - extended to Wallington via 410 LoR 436 - withdrawn 445 - new route from Lewisham to Clapham Junction via 436 and 35 LoR. Frequency of 6bph 449 - new route from Norbury Crescent to Lower Sydenham via Norbury Hill, Beulah Hill, Church Road, Crystal Palace and 410 LoR. Frequency of 5bph 450/451 - withdrawn between Lower Sydenham and Crystal Palace. Merged with 410 to become a circular West Croydon-Thornton Heath-Crystal Palace- South Norwood-West Croydon service, numbered 450 clockwise, 451 anti-clockwise. Frequency adjusted to 7.5bph 493 - withdrawn between Roehampton and Richmond G1 - withdrawn between Clapham South and Shaftesbury Estate. Diverted to Clapham Common. Frequency adjusted to 5bph using 10.2m single deckers. P5 - extended to Battersea Power station. Frequency adjusted to 5bph P12 - frequency adjusted to 5bph SL(?) - new express route from Richmond to Streatham via Roehampton, Wimbledon and Tooting. Frequency of 5bph using double deckers SL(?) - new express route from Woolwich to Oxford Circus via 53 and 453 LoR. Frequency of 6bph using double deckers SL(?) - new express route from Lewisham to Aldwych via 21 and 172 LoR. Frequency of 7.5bph using double deckers SL(?) - new express route from Bromley North to Wandsworth via 227, 417 and 37 LoR. Frequency of 5bph using long single deckers SL(?) - new express route from Crystal Palace to Canning Town via 122 and 202 LoRs to Catford, Lewisham, Blackheath/Sun-in-Sands roundabout and Silvertown Tunnel. Frequency of 5bph using double deckers SL(?) - new express route from Eltham to Streatham via South Circular and Brixton Hill. Frequency of 5bph using long single deckers SL(?) - new express route from North Greenwich to Orpington via 132, 126 (though avoiding Grove Park estate using the B226 in entirety) and 61 LoR. Frequency of 5bph using double deckers SL(?) - new express route from Hammersmith to North Cheam via 220 and 93 LoR. Frequnecy of 5bph using double deckers Just had a quick flick through, regarding the 40 did you mean the 176 LOR to Tottenham Court Road? I don't think the 53,54,199 changes achieve much but the 450/451 idea is interesting. The 4 has some merit although it would be another route across Waterloo Bridge. I agree with the 11/211 and the 74/190/430. I would use the N159 number rather than the N109 OR leave things as they are and extend the N159 to Croydon via Thornton Heath Clock Tower replacing the night service on the 250.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 8, 2024 21:14:16 GMT
An alternative to the W & 549 changes: W12 - Retain old routing between Walthamstow, Coppermill Lane & Georges Lane, then diverts to Loughton via the old 549/current W14 routing. Frequency every 20 minutes with every 2nd bus terminating at South Woodford Station so every 40 minutes beyond South Woodford to Loughton W13 - Follow the new changes entirely so extended to Leyton, Retail Park via the W14's old routing W14 - Revised as Leytonstone Station (taking W13's former spot) to Woodford Bridge via the older routing but diverted via the W12's former back roads & Hermon Hill before re-joining line of route at Snaresbrook 549 - Still withdrawn Not by any means perfect and knowing my luck, I've probably cocked up somewhere but each route still retains some resemblance to it's older routing and lessens the confusion some what Wouldn’t Wanstead lose its direct link to Whips Cross with these changes? One of the objectives of the changes was to have a faster link. I like most of the other ideas though Guess I cocked up then EDIT: Maybe you could extend my W14 idea from Leytonstone to Whipps Cross via Fairlop Road up to the hospital?
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Post by COBO on Sept 8, 2024 21:19:20 GMT
It turned into a big one I was only meant to put a few routes 😂 32: extended from Kilburn Park to St Charles Hospital via route 316. To maintain links lost by the 316. 72: withdrawn between White City and Hammersmith Bridge. Diverted to Maida Hill via route 228. Extended from East Acton to Central Middlesex Hospital. To maintain links lost by the 228. 79: withdrawn between Beresford Avenue and Stonebridge Park. Diverted to Willesden Junction via route 224 to Abbey Road, route 440 to Central Middlesex Hospital, 228 to Station Road and 487 to Willesden Junction. To link Ealing Road with Central Middlesex Hospital. 82: new route between Ealing and Paddington Basin via route 297 to Teignmouth Gardens, Western Avenue, Hanger Lane Gyratory, North Circular Road, Hanger Lane, Uxbridge Road, route 207 to Sheperds Bush, 94 to Lancaster Gate, Sussex Gardens, Spring Street, Eastbourne Terrace, Bishop Bridge Road, Harrow Road and North Wharf Road. To link Acton with Paddington. 190: extended from West Brompton to South Kensington via route 430. Extended from Richmond to Ealing Broadway via route H37 to Twickenham Road, 267 to Gunnersbury Station, Gunnersbury Avenue, Popes Lane, route E3 to Northfields Avenue, Drayton Green Road, West Ealing Station, Cleveland Road and 297 to Ealing Broadway. Converted to double deck and 24 hour service. To maintain links lost by the 430 and to link Ealing with West Middlesex Hospital. 224: withdrawn between Beresford Avenue and St Raephael’s. Diverted to Stonebridge Park via route 79. Extended from Alperton Sainsbury’s to Oldfield Circus via 297 to Horsenden Lane South, double run via Teignmouth Gardens and Bildeford Avenue for Perivale Tesco’s, route E5 to Argyle Road, Western Avenue, Greenford Roundabout, Greenford Road, double run Green Park Way for Westway Cross, Berkeley Avenue, Oldfield Lane North, Currey Road and route 395 to Oldfield Circus. To link North Greenford with Perivale. 228: withdrawn between Uxbridge Road and Central Middlesex Hospital. Diverted to Acton Vale via Uxbridge Road and route 207 to Acton Vale. Diverted between Holland Park Avenue and Ladbroke Sainsbury’s via route 316. Withdrawn between Ladbroke Grove Sainsbury’s and Maida Hill. 283: extended from Hammersmith to Hammersmith Bridge via route 72. To maintain links lost by the 72. 295: extended from Ladbroke Grove Sainsbury’s to Queen’s Park via route 316. To maintain links lost by route 316. 305: new route between St Raphael’s and Southall via route 224 to Abbey Road, North Circular Road, Hanger Lane Gyratory, route to 487 to Bridgewater Road, Manor Farm Road, Bilton Road, Aintree Road, Biddeford Avenue, Perivale Tescos, Teignmouth Gardens, Argyle Road, route E5 to Greenford Road, Uxbridge Road, route 195 to South Road and 95 to Boyd Avenue. To maintain links lost by route 224, to link Central Middlesex with Greenford and Alperton with Southall. 306: extended from Acton Vale to Alperton Sainsbury’s via route 266 to Gypsy Corner, Western Avenue, route 487 to Ealing Road and Glacier Way. To link Alperton with Acton. 316: withdrawn between Kilburn High Road and White City. Diverted to Hammersmith via route 98 to Marble Arch, 74 to Knightsbridge and route 9 to Hammersmith. To restore a old link. 430: withdrawn between Fulham Palace Road and South Kensington. Diverted to White City via route 220 to Wood Lane and 148 to White City. To link Roehampton with East Acton. E10: extended from Ealing Broadway to Turnham Green via The Broadway, The Mall, Uxbridge Road, Gunnersbury Avenue, Gunnersbury Roundabout, Chiswick High Road, route 237 to Turnham Green, Town Hall Avenue, Heathfield Terrace and Chiswick High Road. To link Ealing with Chiswick.
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Post by matthieu1221 on Sept 8, 2024 22:02:38 GMT
Not too sure about your proposed 14 change. Loses the tourist links which have recovered from the pandemic. Holborn is dead-quiet really and also means it parallels the 19 and 38 for longer?
Is your 59 change to compensate for your proposed change to the 14?
The 360 loses the link across the river to Vauxhall and E&C I presume? Don't really agree as it's quite a useful cross-river link at the moment and lots of through-passengers cross the river. Really great east-west link without having to head north or south first to cross the river then change bus.
Not too sure about the 176 and 40 swap. 176 gets great evening passenger numbers going past Waterloo from TCR and Leicester Square. Not too sure where they go up too (E&C or perhaps beyond?) but I trust you know what you're suggesting!
Good point about the 14 - although i understand the routing via British Museum may soon be defunct with pedestrianisation plans. The 59 plans would be to restore some links towards Euston from south of the river. The 360 wouldn't lose any links, after E&c would run via the C10 routing up to Waterloo and St Thomas's, across Lambeth Bridge, Horseferry Road and Victoria Street to Victoria. C10 restored to previous route via Lambeth Bridge Road If the pedestrianisation does happen (though more of a when than an if actually), I'd rather have the 14 take over the 176 stand on Great Russell Street (which tends to stand on St. Giles High Street instead rather than the official stand) with alighting (as is currently the case) and boarding allowed as that's really just a stone's throw to the museum entrance.
For the 59, sure, that's a bit of capacity that imo isn't needed but I'd rather have more capacity than less.
I get your 360 idea now, bit of a U shaped route which I didn't quite think you'd have it take. It will need a frequency increase though despite having longer buses (at least for now). The current C10 routing via Waterloo works quite well actually in my opinion but I guess having the 360 do this has the added advantage of probably being more reliable than the C10 which often bunches due to its length. I do think the current 3 via Horseferry Road provides more interesting links than a '507' style shuttle and from what I can see anecdotally does as well (or no worse rather) than the 507 off peak back before that was cancelled.
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Post by danorak on Sept 9, 2024 1:22:18 GMT
I get your 360 idea now, bit of a U shaped route which I didn't quite think you'd have it take. It will need a frequency increase though despite having longer buses (at least for now). The current C10 routing via Waterloo works quite well actually in my opinion but I guess having the 360 do this has the added advantage of probably being more reliable than the C10 which often bunches due to its length. I do think the current 3 via Horseferry Road provides more interesting links than a '507' style shuttle and from what I can see anecdotally does as well (or no worse rather) than the 507 off peak back before that was cancelled. Between Victoria and Horseferry Road, it carries the same commuter passengers that would have used the 507. Beyond that, it simply picks up the same passengers at the last stop in Horseferry Road that would previously have boarded at the stop in Millbank, so it's no surprise that there's little change to loadings. The C10 to Waterloo though is a pain. Unfortunately, as I've mentioned above, the 360 idea doesn't work because the route approaches E&C from the west. It would need rerouteing via Kennington Lane (with some convoluted looping on the return) to work if it's still to serve E&C. I think there are better ways to address this one.
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 9, 2024 8:41:32 GMT
I get your 360 idea now, bit of a U shaped route which I didn't quite think you'd have it take. It will need a frequency increase though despite having longer buses (at least for now). The current C10 routing via Waterloo works quite well actually in my opinion but I guess having the 360 do this has the added advantage of probably being more reliable than the C10 which often bunches due to its length. I do think the current 3 via Horseferry Road provides more interesting links than a '507' style shuttle and from what I can see anecdotally does as well (or no worse rather) than the 507 off peak back before that was cancelled. Between Victoria and Horseferry Road, it carries the same commuter passengers that would have used the 507. Beyond that, it simply picks up the same passengers at the last stop in Horseferry Road that would previously have boarded at the stop in Millbank, so it's no surprise that there's little change to loadings. The C10 to Waterloo though is a pain. Unfortunately, as I've mentioned above, the 360 idea doesn't work because the route approaches E&C from the west. It would need rerouteing via Kennington Lane (with some convoluted looping on the return) to work if it's still to serve E&C. I think there are better ways to address this one. There may be a few extra People who work in Horseferry Road who live in Kennington and Brixton aswell as residents of Strutton Ground and the estate there who may have family/friends in Kennington and Brixton aswell which may have added a few direct journeys.
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Post by TB123 on Sept 9, 2024 11:50:27 GMT
A few ideas of how to change/weak/improve (use word as you wish) the bus network in inner South London - particularly interested to see what our esteemed local member vjaska says in response to these 3 - diverted at Millbank to Whitehall Horse Guards 4 - withdrawn between Blackfriars and St Pauls. Diverted to Waterloo via 59 LoR 11 - diverted at King's Road to Hammersmith via 211 LoR 12 - frequency adjusted to 6bph 14 - withdrawn between Russell Square and Tottenham Court Road. Diverted to Holborn. Frequency adjusted to 8bph 37 - frequency adjusted to 7.5bph 40 - withdrawn between Clerkenwell and Elephant. Extended to Tottenham Court Road via 171 LoR. Frequency adjusted to 6bph. 42 - frequency adjusted to 5bph 45 - withdrawn 47 - diverted to Liverpool Street bus station 53 - withdrawn between Waterloo and Elephant and diverted to run directly Woolwich and Plumstead 54 - withdrawn between Catford garage and Elmers End. Extended to Plumstead via 53 LoR 57 - frequency adjusted to 6bph 59 - withdrawn between Holborn and St Bart's. Extended to Russell Square, and Euston if stand space permits. 74 - withdrawn between Marble Arch and Baker Street. Extended to Roehampton via 430 LoR. 93 - frequency adjusted to 6bph 98 - extended from Holborn to London Bridge via LoR N109 - 159 night service renumbered as N109 118 - frequency adjusted to 6bph 133 - withdrawn between Holborn and Monument. Diverted to Liverpool Street station 148 - withdrawn between White City and Shepherd's Bush 159 - night service withdrawn 170 - withdrawn between Victoria and Clapham Junction. Converted to double decker 171 - present out of service run to Downham 'livened up' 172 - withdrawn between Holborn and Elephant. Extended to Clerkenwell via 40 LoR 176 - withdrawn between Tottenham Court Road and Elephant 190 - extended from West Brompton to South Kensington via 430 LoR. Converted to double deckers 199 - extended from Catford garage to Elmers End via 54 LoR 211 - diverted at King's Road to Fulham Broadway via 11 LoR and extended to Peckham via 436 LoR 227 - frequency adjusted to 6bph 239 - new route from Clapham Junction to Victoria via 170 LoR. Frequency of 8bph 322 - extended to Shaftesbury Estate via Clapham South and G1 LoR 343 - withdrawn between Aldgate and Tower Gateway 345 - withdrawn between Brixton and Peckham 360 - extended to Victoria via C10 and 3 LoR 410 - withdrawn 414 - withdrawn 415 - extended to New Bermondsey and Canada Water 430 - withdrawn 432 - extended to Elmers End 433 - extended to Wallington via 410 LoR 436 - withdrawn 445 - new route from Lewisham to Clapham Junction via 436 and 35 LoR. Frequency of 6bph 449 - new route from Norbury Crescent to Lower Sydenham via Norbury Hill, Beulah Hill, Church Road, Crystal Palace and 410 LoR. Frequency of 5bph 450/451 - withdrawn between Lower Sydenham and Crystal Palace. Merged with 410 to become a circular West Croydon-Thornton Heath-Crystal Palace- South Norwood-West Croydon service, numbered 450 clockwise, 451 anti-clockwise. Frequency adjusted to 7.5bph 493 - withdrawn between Roehampton and Richmond G1 - withdrawn between Clapham South and Shaftesbury Estate. Diverted to Clapham Common. Frequency adjusted to 5bph using 10.2m single deckers. P5 - extended to Battersea Power station. Frequency adjusted to 5bph P12 - frequency adjusted to 5bph SL(?) - new express route from Richmond to Streatham via Roehampton, Wimbledon and Tooting. Frequency of 5bph using double deckers SL(?) - new express route from Woolwich to Oxford Circus via 53 and 453 LoR. Frequency of 6bph using double deckers SL(?) - new express route from Lewisham to Aldwych via 21 and 172 LoR. Frequency of 7.5bph using double deckers SL(?) - new express route from Bromley North to Wandsworth via 227, 417 and 37 LoR. Frequency of 5bph using long single deckers SL(?) - new express route from Crystal Palace to Canning Town via 122 and 202 LoRs to Catford, Lewisham, Blackheath/Sun-in-Sands roundabout and Silvertown Tunnel. Frequency of 5bph using double deckers SL(?) - new express route from Eltham to Streatham via South Circular and Brixton Hill. Frequency of 5bph using long single deckers SL(?) - new express route from North Greenwich to Orpington via 132, 126 (though avoiding Grove Park estate using the B226 in entirety) and 61 LoR. Frequency of 5bph using double deckers SL(?) - new express route from Hammersmith to North Cheam via 220 and 93 LoR. Frequnecy of 5bph using double deckers Some alterations to this following suggestions on here: 3 - diverted at Millbank to run to Russell Square via Whitehall, Charing Cross Road and British Museum (pedestrianisation dependent, if not to terminate at Holborn Station) 14 - withdrawn between Russell Square and Tottenham Court Road 47 - to continue to serve Shoreditch 59 - to continue to serve St Bart's Hospital 333 - extended to Victoria via Lambeth Bridge Road and route 3 LoR 360/C10 - no changes 415 - only extended as far as New Bermondsey
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Post by vjaska on Sept 9, 2024 13:03:31 GMT
A few ideas of how to change/weak/improve (use word as you wish) the bus network in inner South London - particularly interested to see what our esteemed local member vjaska says in response to these 3 - diverted at Millbank to Whitehall Horse Guards 4 - withdrawn between Blackfriars and St Pauls. Diverted to Waterloo via 59 LoR 11 - diverted at King's Road to Hammersmith via 211 LoR 12 - frequency adjusted to 6bph 14 - withdrawn between Russell Square and Tottenham Court Road. Diverted to Holborn. Frequency adjusted to 8bph 37 - frequency adjusted to 7.5bph 40 - withdrawn between Clerkenwell and Elephant. Extended to Tottenham Court Road via 171 LoR. Frequency adjusted to 6bph. 42 - frequency adjusted to 5bph 45 - withdrawn 47 - diverted to Liverpool Street bus station 53 - withdrawn between Waterloo and Elephant and diverted to run directly Woolwich and Plumstead 54 - withdrawn between Catford garage and Elmers End. Extended to Plumstead via 53 LoR 57 - frequency adjusted to 6bph 59 - withdrawn between Holborn and St Bart's. Extended to Russell Square, and Euston if stand space permits. 74 - withdrawn between Marble Arch and Baker Street. Extended to Roehampton via 430 LoR. 93 - frequency adjusted to 6bph 98 - extended from Holborn to London Bridge via LoR N109 - 159 night service renumbered as N109 118 - frequency adjusted to 6bph 133 - withdrawn between Holborn and Monument. Diverted to Liverpool Street station 148 - withdrawn between White City and Shepherd's Bush 159 - night service withdrawn 170 - withdrawn between Victoria and Clapham Junction. Converted to double decker 171 - present out of service run to Downham 'livened up' 172 - withdrawn between Holborn and Elephant. Extended to Clerkenwell via 40 LoR 176 - withdrawn between Tottenham Court Road and Elephant 190 - extended from West Brompton to South Kensington via 430 LoR. Converted to double deckers 199 - extended from Catford garage to Elmers End via 54 LoR 211 - diverted at King's Road to Fulham Broadway via 11 LoR and extended to Peckham via 436 LoR 227 - frequency adjusted to 6bph 239 - new route from Clapham Junction to Victoria via 170 LoR. Frequency of 8bph 322 - extended to Shaftesbury Estate via Clapham South and G1 LoR 343 - withdrawn between Aldgate and Tower Gateway 345 - withdrawn between Brixton and Peckham 360 - extended to Victoria via C10 and 3 LoR 410 - withdrawn 414 - withdrawn 415 - extended to New Bermondsey and Canada Water 430 - withdrawn 432 - extended to Elmers End 433 - extended to Wallington via 410 LoR 436 - withdrawn 445 - new route from Lewisham to Clapham Junction via 436 and 35 LoR. Frequency of 6bph 449 - new route from Norbury Crescent to Lower Sydenham via Norbury Hill, Beulah Hill, Church Road, Crystal Palace and 410 LoR. Frequency of 5bph 450/451 - withdrawn between Lower Sydenham and Crystal Palace. Merged with 410 to become a circular West Croydon-Thornton Heath-Crystal Palace- South Norwood-West Croydon service, numbered 450 clockwise, 451 anti-clockwise. Frequency adjusted to 7.5bph 493 - withdrawn between Roehampton and Richmond G1 - withdrawn between Clapham South and Shaftesbury Estate. Diverted to Clapham Common. Frequency adjusted to 5bph using 10.2m single deckers. P5 - extended to Battersea Power station. Frequency adjusted to 5bph P12 - frequency adjusted to 5bph SL(?) - new express route from Richmond to Streatham via Roehampton, Wimbledon and Tooting. Frequency of 5bph using double deckers SL(?) - new express route from Woolwich to Oxford Circus via 53 and 453 LoR. Frequency of 6bph using double deckers SL(?) - new express route from Lewisham to Aldwych via 21 and 172 LoR. Frequency of 7.5bph using double deckers SL(?) - new express route from Bromley North to Wandsworth via 227, 417 and 37 LoR. Frequency of 5bph using long single deckers SL(?) - new express route from Crystal Palace to Canning Town via 122 and 202 LoRs to Catford, Lewisham, Blackheath/Sun-in-Sands roundabout and Silvertown Tunnel. Frequency of 5bph using double deckers SL(?) - new express route from Eltham to Streatham via South Circular and Brixton Hill. Frequency of 5bph using long single deckers SL(?) - new express route from North Greenwich to Orpington via 132, 126 (though avoiding Grove Park estate using the B226 in entirety) and 61 LoR. Frequency of 5bph using double deckers SL(?) - new express route from Hammersmith to North Cheam via 220 and 93 LoR. Frequnecy of 5bph using double deckers Some alterations to this following suggestions on here: 3 - diverted at Millbank to run to Russell Square via Whitehall, Charing Cross Road and British Museum (pedestrianisation dependent, if not to terminate at Holborn Station) 14 - withdrawn between Russell Square and Tottenham Court Road 47 - to continue to serve Shoreditch 59 - to continue to serve St Bart's Hospital 333 - extended to Victoria via Lambeth Bridge Road and route 3 LoR 360/C10 - no changes 415 - only extended as far as New Bermondsey I’m not convinced the 333 could handle such an extension and I would prefer to see it remain in its current form or, space permitting, extend to St George’s Hospital. I preferred your original idea with the 59 returning to Euston or really anywhere that brings actual benefits to South London because St Bart’s is a waste of time for us down here If the 45 remained put, you could extend that to Surrey Canal instead, scrap the Bakerloop proposal and extend the 415 to Lewisham.
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 9, 2024 15:47:12 GMT
Some alterations to this following suggestions on here: 3 - diverted at Millbank to run to Russell Square via Whitehall, Charing Cross Road and British Museum (pedestrianisation dependent, if not to terminate at Holborn Station) 14 - withdrawn between Russell Square and Tottenham Court Road 47 - to continue to serve Shoreditch 59 - to continue to serve St Bart's Hospital 333 - extended to Victoria via Lambeth Bridge Road and route 3 LoR 360/C10 - no changes 415 - only extended as far as New Bermondsey I’m not convinced the 333 could handle such an extension and I would prefer to see it remain in its current form or, space permitting, extend to St George’s Hospital. I preferred your original idea with the 59 returning to Euston or really anywhere that brings actual benefits to South London because St Bart’s is a waste of time for us down here If the 45 remained put, you could extend that to Surrey Canal instead, scrap the Bakerloop proposal and extend the 415 to Lewisham. I'm still not convinced myself by the Bakerloop. I can understand why TFL like the idea but I'm not sure busing loads of people into Elephant is necessarily good. Trains from Lewisham aren't bad really into LB or Charing Cross. If it was Superloop right into town then that could have real promise for people who might bargain an hours journey to reach TSQ or Oxford Circus without having to change trains etc.
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Post by YX18KVJ (DLE30221) on Sept 9, 2024 16:29:23 GMT
It turned into a big one I was only meant to put a few routes 😂 32: extended from Kilburn Park to St Charles Hospital via route 316. To maintain links lost by the 316. 72: withdrawn between White City and Hammersmith Bridge. Diverted to Maida Hill via route 228. Extended from East Acton to Central Middlesex Hospital. To maintain links lost by the 228. 79: withdrawn between Beresford Avenue and Stonebridge Park. Diverted to Willesden Junction via route 224 to Abbey Road, route 440 to Central Middlesex Hospital, 228 to Station Road and 487 to Willesden Junction. To link Ealing Road with Central Middlesex Hospital. 82: new route between Ealing and Paddington Basin via route 297 to Teignmouth Gardens, Western Avenue, Hanger Lane Gyratory, North Circular Road, Hanger Lane, Uxbridge Road, route 207 to Sheperds Bush, 94 to Lancaster Gate, Sussex Gardens, Spring Street, Eastbourne Terrace, Bishop Bridge Road, Harrow Road and North Wharf Road. To link Acton with Paddington. 190: extended from West Brompton to South Kensington via route 430. Extended from Richmond to Ealing Broadway via route H37 to Twickenham Road, 267 to Gunnersbury Station, Gunnersbury Avenue, Popes Lane, route E3 to Northfields Avenue, Drayton Green Road, West Ealing Station, Cleveland Road and 297 to Ealing Broadway. Converted to double deck and 24 hour service. To maintain links lost by the 430 and to link Ealing with West Middlesex Hospital. 224: withdrawn between Beresford Avenue and St Raephael’s. Diverted to Stonebridge Park via route 79. Extended from Alperton Sainsbury’s to Oldfield Circus via 297 to Horsenden Lane South, double run via Teignmouth Gardens and Bildeford Avenue for Perivale Tesco’s, route E5 to Argyle Road, Western Avenue, Greenford Roundabout, Greenford Road, double run Green Park Way for Westway Cross, Berkeley Avenue, Oldfield Lane North, Currey Road and route 395 to Oldfield Circus. To link North Greenford with Perivale. 228: withdrawn between Uxbridge Road and Central Middlesex Hospital. Diverted to Acton Vale via Uxbridge Road and route 207 to Acton Vale. Diverted between Holland Park Avenue and Ladbroke Sainsbury’s via route 316. Withdrawn between Ladbroke Grove Sainsbury’s and Maida Hill. 283: extended from Hammersmith to Hammersmith Bridge via route 72. To maintain links lost by the 72. 295: extended from Ladbroke Grove Sainsbury’s to Queen’s Park via route 316. To maintain links lost by route 316. 305: new route between St Raphael’s and Southall via route 224 to Abbey Road, North Circular Road, Hanger Lane Gyratory, route to 487 to Bridgewater Road, Manor Farm Road, Bilton Road, Aintree Road, Biddeford Avenue, Perivale Tescos, Teignmouth Gardens, Argyle Road, route E5 to Greenford Road, Uxbridge Road, route 195 to South Road and 95 to Boyd Avenue. To maintain links lost by route 224, to link Central Middlesex with Greenford and Alperton with Southall. 306: extended from Acton Vale to Alperton Sainsbury’s via route 266 to Gypsy Corner, Western Avenue, route 487 to Ealing Road and Glacier Way. To link Alperton with Acton. 316: withdrawn between Kilburn High Road and White City. Diverted to Hammersmith via route 98 to Marble Arch, 74 to Knightsbridge and route 9 to Hammersmith. To restore a old link. 430: withdrawn between Fulham Palace Road and South Kensington. Diverted to White City via route 220 to Wood Lane and 148 to White City. To link Roehampton with East Acton. E10: extended from Ealing Broadway to Turnham Green via The Broadway, The Mall, Uxbridge Road, Gunnersbury Avenue, Gunnersbury Roundabout, Chiswick High Road, route 237 to Turnham Green, Town Hall Avenue, Heathfield Terrace and Chiswick High Road. To link Ealing with Chiswick. The 190 would be too long to operate as an Ealing Broadway to South Kensington route. People in Richmond would much rather take a 65 to Ealing (assuming it hasn’t curtailed to Great West Road) If West Middlesex needs a link to Ealing then extend the E2. If any route replaces the 228 section of Shepherds Bush - Maida Hill then I think it should be 272, as I have mentioned before.
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Post by COBO on Sept 9, 2024 17:11:44 GMT
It turned into a big one I was only meant to put a few routes 😂 32: extended from Kilburn Park to St Charles Hospital via route 316. To maintain links lost by the 316. 72: withdrawn between White City and Hammersmith Bridge. Diverted to Maida Hill via route 228. Extended from East Acton to Central Middlesex Hospital. To maintain links lost by the 228. 79: withdrawn between Beresford Avenue and Stonebridge Park. Diverted to Willesden Junction via route 224 to Abbey Road, route 440 to Central Middlesex Hospital, 228 to Station Road and 487 to Willesden Junction. To link Ealing Road with Central Middlesex Hospital. 82: new route between Ealing and Paddington Basin via route 297 to Teignmouth Gardens, Western Avenue, Hanger Lane Gyratory, North Circular Road, Hanger Lane, Uxbridge Road, route 207 to Sheperds Bush, 94 to Lancaster Gate, Sussex Gardens, Spring Street, Eastbourne Terrace, Bishop Bridge Road, Harrow Road and North Wharf Road. To link Acton with Paddington. 190: extended from West Brompton to South Kensington via route 430. Extended from Richmond to Ealing Broadway via route H37 to Twickenham Road, 267 to Gunnersbury Station, Gunnersbury Avenue, Popes Lane, route E3 to Northfields Avenue, Drayton Green Road, West Ealing Station, Cleveland Road and 297 to Ealing Broadway. Converted to double deck and 24 hour service. To maintain links lost by the 430 and to link Ealing with West Middlesex Hospital. 224: withdrawn between Beresford Avenue and St Raephael’s. Diverted to Stonebridge Park via route 79. Extended from Alperton Sainsbury’s to Oldfield Circus via 297 to Horsenden Lane South, double run via Teignmouth Gardens and Bildeford Avenue for Perivale Tesco’s, route E5 to Argyle Road, Western Avenue, Greenford Roundabout, Greenford Road, double run Green Park Way for Westway Cross, Berkeley Avenue, Oldfield Lane North, Currey Road and route 395 to Oldfield Circus. To link North Greenford with Perivale. 228: withdrawn between Uxbridge Road and Central Middlesex Hospital. Diverted to Acton Vale via Uxbridge Road and route 207 to Acton Vale. Diverted between Holland Park Avenue and Ladbroke Sainsbury’s via route 316. Withdrawn between Ladbroke Grove Sainsbury’s and Maida Hill. 283: extended from Hammersmith to Hammersmith Bridge via route 72. To maintain links lost by the 72. 295: extended from Ladbroke Grove Sainsbury’s to Queen’s Park via route 316. To maintain links lost by route 316. 305: new route between St Raphael’s and Southall via route 224 to Abbey Road, North Circular Road, Hanger Lane Gyratory, route to 487 to Bridgewater Road, Manor Farm Road, Bilton Road, Aintree Road, Biddeford Avenue, Perivale Tescos, Teignmouth Gardens, Argyle Road, route E5 to Greenford Road, Uxbridge Road, route 195 to South Road and 95 to Boyd Avenue. To maintain links lost by route 224, to link Central Middlesex with Greenford and Alperton with Southall. 306: extended from Acton Vale to Alperton Sainsbury’s via route 266 to Gypsy Corner, Western Avenue, route 487 to Ealing Road and Glacier Way. To link Alperton with Acton. 316: withdrawn between Kilburn High Road and White City. Diverted to Hammersmith via route 98 to Marble Arch, 74 to Knightsbridge and route 9 to Hammersmith. To restore a old link. 430: withdrawn between Fulham Palace Road and South Kensington. Diverted to White City via route 220 to Wood Lane and 148 to White City. To link Roehampton with East Acton. E10: extended from Ealing Broadway to Turnham Green via The Broadway, The Mall, Uxbridge Road, Gunnersbury Avenue, Gunnersbury Roundabout, Chiswick High Road, route 237 to Turnham Green, Town Hall Avenue, Heathfield Terrace and Chiswick High Road. To link Ealing with Chiswick. The 190 would be too long to operate as an Ealing Broadway to South Kensington route. People in Richmond would much rather take a 65 to Ealing (assuming it hasn’t curtailed to Great West Road) If West Middlesex needs a link to Ealing then extend the E2. If any route replaces the 228 section of Shepherds Bush - Maida Hill then I think it should be 272, as I have mentioned before. Why should the 272 the 228? People can go the 65 to take them to Ealing and Richmond but the 190 to Ealing is for round the corner links. It could help out the 65.
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Post by twobellstogo on Sept 9, 2024 21:17:16 GMT
53 - withdrawn between Waterloo and Elephant and diverted to run directly Woolwich and Plumstead 54 - ……Extended to Plumstead via 53 LoR The frequency of the 53 is needed on the Plumstead Common section. The 51 suffers at peak hours as it is with short riders to the common from Woolwich leaving longer distance passengers behind. Replacing the 53 with the 54 would only exacerbate this problem, so regretfully I can’t agree with this change.
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Post by danorak on Sept 10, 2024 1:03:01 GMT
53 - withdrawn between Waterloo and Elephant and diverted to run directly Woolwich and Plumstead 54 - ……Extended to Plumstead via 53 LoR The frequency of the 53 is needed on the Plumstead Common section. The 51 suffers at peak hours as it is with short riders to the common from Woolwich leaving longer distance passengers behind. Replacing the 53 with the 54 would only exacerbate this problem, so regretfully I can’t agree with this change. If the problem is short riding between Woolwich and Plumstead Common then another route could be added in over that section to top up capacity and relieve any existing problem. It could also provide some alternative travel options. I don't think there's a need to run the 53 direct along Plumstead Road - changeovers are already in Woolwich - so perhaps those resources could go into extending the 178 to Plumstead Common or even diverting the 122 there.
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