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Post by vjaska on Oct 27, 2021 21:40:05 GMT
Why is it needed when the residents of Barnes are far more likely to just take the train and there are already enough links to do the journey with only one interchange. So tell me if you added the 378 to Putney Bridge Road what would you sacrifice to ensure it isn’t over-bussed whilst maintaining both the 220 and 270, both of which are vital links to Putney Bridge. Reducing them in frequency isn’t an option as then the other parts of the routes would suffer. Adding the 378 to Putney High Street also isn’t an option, so what are you prepared to cut? Really just extending the operating hours of the 485 and adding the double run to Riverside would mean that Barnes to Battersea would be doable within the hopper fare, no 378 required to indulge you. Either: Route the 378 via Putney High Street and South Circular to Wandsworth, then on my proposed route to Battersea, whilst cutting the 74 to Putney Bridge (people can change onto a 430). Or extend the 485 to Battersea via my proposed 378 extension. It would either serve Putney High Street and South Circular, or via its current route with the double run at Riverside. No other routes would change in frequency or route length. Out of those two proposals, I think the latter is more favourable because it results in minimal disruption. Can I ask why you want to link Battersea (in particular Battersea Power Station) to Barnes? There is very little in Barnes that would attract anyone beyond Wandsworth to go to and actually, I don't think Barnes residents would be that attracted to travel to Battersea either. Unlike Barnes which I'd imagine is predominately middle class (feel free to correct me on that), Battersea despite the gentrification is still very mixed and I can't see anyone requesting Barnes when most would go to Chelsea or if not of the middle class persuasion, Central London, Clapham Junction or Common, Wandsworth & Brixton. The 265 could be extended as far as Wandsworth solely in terms of length as it already successfully operated from there when Putney Bridge was shut, any further though would be too much for it though. Meanwhile, the 378 & 485 have inadequate capacity to be extended beyond Wandsworth - the 485 gets away with running along Putney Bridge Road because it runs every 30 minutes 6 days a week without an evening service. |
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Post by greg on Oct 27, 2021 22:26:31 GMT
changes to 205, 214 and new 305:
205: rerouted at Old Street Station to Moorgate, Finsbury Square via route 214 and further extended to Liverpool Street via Eldon Street (or route 153). withdrawn between Liverpool Street and Bow Church.
214: withdrawn between Islington, Angel and Moorgate to reduce overbussing and reduce journey times due to heavy congestion - route 205 replaces between KC and Liverpool Street
305: new route between between Stratford International and Camden Town running via route N205 to King’s Cross and 214 to Camden Town. Replaces part route 205, and runs via the Shoreditch High Street to retain the links from the current 205, and keeps a link to Camden from Old Street previously on the 214. Also gives Warton Road a bus link in the Stratford area.
the current 205 will be split into a 205 and 305 to better suit customer needs such as a less congested shorter journeys more reliable bus service for the East End as the 305 such as Stratford to Shoreditch and the 205 from the West End to the Central East end
both routes will increase capacity as the current 205 is already very busy and often packed to the doors, two routes on certain parts of the route can have more relaxed passengers, and both routes have little unique sections as the 205 being rerouted via Moorgate and 305 via Shoreditch and also the 305 going to Camden and Stratford, which is new from the current 205
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Post by LondonNorthern on Oct 27, 2021 22:36:38 GMT
changes to 205, 214 and new 305: 205: rerouted at Old Street Station to Moorgate, Finsbury Square via route 214 and further extended to Liverpool Street via Eldon Street (or route 153). withdrawn between Liverpool Street and Bow Church. 214: withdrawn between Islington, Angel and Moorgate to reduce overbussing and reduce journey times due to heavy congestion - route 205 replaces between KC and Liverpool Street 305: new route between between Stratford International and Camden Town running via route N205 to King’s Cross and 214 to Camden Town. Replaces part route 205, and runs via the Shoreditch High Street to retain the links from the current 205, and keeps a link to Camden from Old Street previously on the 214. Also gives Warton Road a bus link in the Stratford area. the current 205 will be split into a 205 and 305 to better suit customer needs such as a less congested shorter journeys more reliable bus service for the East End as the 305 such as Stratford to Shoreditch and the 205 from the West End to the Central East end both routes will increase capacity as the current 205 is already very busy and often packed to the doors, two routes on certain parts of the route can have more relaxed passengers, and both routes have little unique sections as the 205 being rerouted via Moorgate and 305 via Shoreditch and also the 305 going to Camden and Stratford, which is new from the current 205 Sorry but I disagree with you on some things. I'm not too familiar on the 205 but I do know it has heavy loadings on the Central section, but I don't see the need for some things. First off, I don't think an SD 214 between Old Street & Moorgate should be substituted with a DD, to me that seems illogical especially when the corridor is already overbussed. I've alluded to solutions before such as a reroute of the 271 to Shoreditch, creating new links into Inner London and it would reduce duplication with the 21, 76 & 141 to Hoxton whilst preventing even more duplication with the 43. The Old Street to Moorgate section of the 271 is never really used, the 43 is clearly busier whilst also reducing buses down there. It would also help support the 135/205. Perhaps a solution for the 214 would be an increase in frequency, especially when the northern end gets pretty hammered with passengers as is (this is if Camden to Old Street is one of the problem children). |
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Post by greg on Oct 27, 2021 22:42:00 GMT
changes to 205, 214 and new 305: 205: rerouted at Old Street Station to Moorgate, Finsbury Square via route 214 and further extended to Liverpool Street via Eldon Street (or route 153). withdrawn between Liverpool Street and Bow Church. 214: withdrawn between Islington, Angel and Moorgate to reduce overbussing and reduce journey times due to heavy congestion - route 205 replaces between KC and Liverpool Street 305: new route between between Stratford International and Camden Town running via route N205 to King’s Cross and 214 to Camden Town. Replaces part route 205, and runs via the Shoreditch High Street to retain the links from the current 205, and keeps a link to Camden from Old Street previously on the 214. Also gives Warton Road a bus link in the Stratford area. the current 205 will be split into a 205 and 305 to better suit customer needs such as a less congested shorter journeys more reliable bus service for the East End as the 305 such as Stratford to Shoreditch and the 205 from the West End to the Central East end both routes will increase capacity as the current 205 is already very busy and often packed to the doors, two routes on certain parts of the route can have more relaxed passengers, and both routes have little unique sections as the 205 being rerouted via Moorgate and 305 via Shoreditch and also the 305 going to Camden and Stratford, which is new from the current 205 Sorry but I disagree with you on some things. I'm not too familiar on the 205 but I do know it has heavy loadings on the Central section, but I don't see the need for some things. First off, I don't think an SD 214 between Old Street & Moorgate should be substituted with a DD, to me that seems illogical especially when the corridor is already overbussed. I've alluded to solutions before such as a reroute of the 271 to Shoreditch, creating new links into Inner London and it would reduce duplication with the 21, 76 & 141 to Hoxton whilst preventing even more duplication with the 43. The Old Street to Moorgate section of the 271 is never really used, the 43 is clearly busier whilst also reducing buses down there. It would also help support the 135/205. Perhaps a solution for the 214 would be an increase in frequency, especially when the northern end gets pretty hammered with passengers as is (this is if Camden to Old Street is one of the problem children). it was more of so that the new “205” would have some unique links by running via Moorgate instead of Shoreditch, having both the 214 and “305” between Kings Cross and Moorgate would be more than adequate, and the planned 305 would definitely be the one picking up more hence the 214 cut back, which is certaintly mostly busy between Kings Cross and Highgate mostly. As of the 205’s central section, that is not changing. The Paddington to Liverpool Street is the central of route 205, and so hence nothing is affecting it. The 305 would be taking over the East end linking to Central without running into the West End and North West London (excluding Camden Town). |
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Post by YX10FFN on Oct 27, 2021 22:45:34 GMT
Either: Route the 378 via Putney High Street and South Circular to Wandsworth, then on my proposed route to Battersea, whilst cutting the 74 to Putney Bridge (people can change onto a 430). Or extend the 485 to Battersea via my proposed 378 extension. It would either serve Putney High Street and South Circular, or via its current route with the double run at Riverside. No other routes would change in frequency or route length. Out of those two proposals, I think the latter is more favourable because it results in minimal disruption. Can I ask why you want to link Battersea (in particular Battersea Power Station) to Barnes? There is very little in Barnes that would attract anyone beyond Wandsworth to go to and actually, I don't think Barnes residents would be that attracted to travel to Battersea either. Unlike Barnes which I'd imagine is predominately middle class (feel free to correct me on that), Battersea despite the gentrification is still very mixed and I can't see anyone requesting Barnes when most would go to Chelsea or if not of the middle class persuasion, Central London, Clapham Junction or Common, Wandsworth & Brixton. The 265 could be extended as far as Wandsworth solely in terms of length as it already successfully operated from there when Putney Bridge was shut, any further though would be too much for it though. Meanwhile, the 378 & 485 have inadequate capacity to be extended beyond Wandsworth - the 485 gets away with running along Putney Bridge Road because it runs every 30 minutes 6 days a week without an evening service. Your first paragraph is spot on. Before the bridge closed and it was just the 485 with an eastbound link from Barnes it still wasn't well used and didn't run on Sundays (it still doesn't run on Sundays). The only eastbound demand from Barnes is to the District Line at Putney, demand that only really started in 2019 and will significantly decrease once the bridge reopens. Unless it serves Wandsworth Riverside Quarter at some point in the future the 485 itself will go back to being fairly useless when the bridge reopens, as it doesn't serve the District Line or Putney Station. The only guaranteed bus demand in Barnes is to Hammersmith (pre bridge closure) and the round the corner link to Barnes Station on the 33 and 72. The reason the 485 is so infrequent and the 378 is almost always empty is because eastbound demand simply isn't there. For Wandsworth and Battersea (through Clapham Junction) it would be far easier to simply hop on the train. |
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Oct 28, 2021 8:36:23 GMT
Why is it needed when the residents of Barnes are far more likely to just take the train and there are already enough links to do the journey with only one interchange. So tell me if you added the 378 to Putney Bridge Road what would you sacrifice to ensure it isn’t over-bussed whilst maintaining both the 220 and 270, both of which are vital links to Putney Bridge. Reducing them in frequency isn’t an option as then the other parts of the routes would suffer. Adding the 378 to Putney High Street also isn’t an option, so what are you prepared to cut? Really just extending the operating hours of the 485 and adding the double run to Riverside would mean that Barnes to Battersea would be doable within the hopper fare, no 378 required to indulge you. Either: Route the 378 via Putney High Street and South Circular to Wandsworth, then on my proposed route to Battersea, whilst cutting the 74 to Putney Bridge (people can change onto a 430). Or extend the 485 to Battersea via my proposed 378 extension. It would either serve Putney High Street and South Circular, or via its current route with the double run at Riverside. No other routes would change in frequency or route length. Out of those two proposals, I think the latter is more favourable because it results in minimal disruption. I think your first is preferable as the 378 change, if the 306 is extended to Riverside and the 485 sees no changes. The 74 doesn't need to be cut back, the 378 doesn't actually stand at Putney Bridge station, it just 'hesitates' outside and stands mostly at Mortlake. So, unless another route is amended, it can't be cut back. The 485 would by and large stay as it is, the only change would be that it would only operate when the Wetlands Centre is open. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Oct 28, 2021 9:19:40 GMT
Either: Route the 378 via Putney High Street and South Circular to Wandsworth, then on my proposed route to Battersea, whilst cutting the 74 to Putney Bridge (people can change onto a 430). Or extend the 485 to Battersea via my proposed 378 extension. It would either serve Putney High Street and South Circular, or via its current route with the double run at Riverside. No other routes would change in frequency or route length. Out of those two proposals, I think the latter is more favourable because it results in minimal disruption. I think your first is preferable as the 378 change, if the 306 is extended to Riverside and the 485 sees no changes. The 74 doesn't need to be cut back, the 378 doesn't actually stand at Putney Bridge station, it just 'hesitates' outside and stands mostly at Mortlake. So, unless another route is amended, it can't be cut back. The 485 would by and large stay as it is, the only change would be that it would only operate when the Wetlands Centre is open. Let’s be honest neither is preferable because both are completely and utterly unnecessary. Realistically if the 378 proposal was implemented a route would have to be cut in frequency from Putney High Street to avoid over bussing it, it’s like a bus park at the worst of times. As said a few times now an operating hour extension to the 485 and a double run to Riverside Quarter, like the G1 does between Springfield and St George’s Hospitals, would solve this non problem indefinitely. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2021 11:05:38 GMT
Either: Route the 378 via Putney High Street and South Circular to Wandsworth, then on my proposed route to Battersea, whilst cutting the 74 to Putney Bridge (people can change onto a 430). Or extend the 485 to Battersea via my proposed 378 extension. It would either serve Putney High Street and South Circular, or via its current route with the double run at Riverside. No other routes would change in frequency or route length. Out of those two proposals, I think the latter is more favourable because it results in minimal disruption. Can I ask why you want to link Battersea (in particular Battersea Power Station) to Barnes? There is very little in Barnes that would attract anyone beyond Wandsworth to go to and actually, I don't think Barnes residents would be that attracted to travel to Battersea either. Unlike Barnes which I'd imagine is predominately middle class (feel free to correct me on that), Battersea despite the gentrification is still very mixed and I can't see anyone requesting Barnes when most would go to Chelsea or if not of the middle class persuasion, Central London, Clapham Junction or Common, Wandsworth & Brixton. The 265 could be extended as far as Wandsworth solely in terms of length as it already successfully operated from there when Putney Bridge was shut, any further though would be too much for it though. Meanwhile, the 378 & 485 have inadequate capacity to be extended beyond Wandsworth - the 485 gets away with running along Putney Bridge Road because it runs every 30 minutes 6 days a week without an evening service. I just wanted to create new links from Battersea Power area now that the northern line operates there. Perhaps Barnes is too far but I think Putney could do with a link there. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2021 11:19:13 GMT
While we're talking about that area I think there should be more links from Fulham Broadway/Sands End south of Wandsworth.
Disregarding extending the 306 to Wandsworth Riverside (the 28 could go there instead), the 306 could be extended to Clapham Junction via the C3.
The C3 could then be withdrawn between Wandsworth Bridge and Clapham Junction, then extended to Tooting Broadway/station either via Garratt Lane, or via Trinity Road and then route 77 to Tooting. This is because the C3 is shorter than the 306 so could do with an extension, whilst the links from Imperial Wharf to Clapham Junction wouldn't be lost.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 28, 2021 12:08:18 GMT
Can I ask why you want to link Battersea (in particular Battersea Power Station) to Barnes? There is very little in Barnes that would attract anyone beyond Wandsworth to go to and actually, I don't think Barnes residents would be that attracted to travel to Battersea either. Unlike Barnes which I'd imagine is predominately middle class (feel free to correct me on that), Battersea despite the gentrification is still very mixed and I can't see anyone requesting Barnes when most would go to Chelsea or if not of the middle class persuasion, Central London, Clapham Junction or Common, Wandsworth & Brixton. The 265 could be extended as far as Wandsworth solely in terms of length as it already successfully operated from there when Putney Bridge was shut, any further though would be too much for it though. Meanwhile, the 378 & 485 have inadequate capacity to be extended beyond Wandsworth - the 485 gets away with running along Putney Bridge Road because it runs every 30 minutes 6 days a week without an evening service. I just wanted to create new links from Battersea Power area now that the northern line operates there. Perhaps Barnes is too far but I think Putney could do with a link there. A new route that runs from Barnes from Battersea isn’t too far but that the main issue is whether there is actual demand for such a link. Battersea Power Station is a development with some shops mainly to be used by locals rather than a massive shopping area that you’d specifically travel to - the development already has good transport links. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 28, 2021 12:20:04 GMT
While we're talking about that area I think there should be more links from Fulham Broadway/Sands End south of Wandsworth. Disregarding extending the 306 to Wandsworth Riverside (the 28 could go there instead), the 306 could be extended to Clapham Junction via the C3. The C3 could then be withdrawn between Wandsworth Bridge and Clapham Junction, then extended to Tooting Broadway/station either via Garratt Lane, or via Trinity Road and then route 77 to Tooting. This is because the C3 is shorter than the 306 so could do with an extension, whilst the links from Imperial Wharf to Clapham Junction wouldn't be lost. The 28 wouldn’t be ideal running to the Riverside as it would increase its length having to double run via Southside Shopping Centre which is the main reason people go to Wandsworth. It would also be an expensive way of serving the site when the low frequency 485 exists. The C3 does a perfectly good job in its current form, just because it’s short doesn’t mean it could do with an extension. I don’t see the merits of a Tooting extension when Wandsworth is nearby and available on the 28 (albeit a short walk away) for all your shopping needs and Clapham Junction is available for all your transport needs. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2021 12:38:12 GMT
While we're talking about that area I think there should be more links from Fulham Broadway/Sands End south of Wandsworth. Disregarding extending the 306 to Wandsworth Riverside (the 28 could go there instead), the 306 could be extended to Clapham Junction via the C3. The C3 could then be withdrawn between Wandsworth Bridge and Clapham Junction, then extended to Tooting Broadway/station either via Garratt Lane, or via Trinity Road and then route 77 to Tooting. This is because the C3 is shorter than the 306 so could do with an extension, whilst the links from Imperial Wharf to Clapham Junction wouldn't be lost. The 28 wouldn’t be ideal running to the Riverside as it would increase its length having to double run via Southside Shopping Centre which is the main reason people go to Wandsworth. It would also be an expensive way of serving the site when the low frequency 485 exists. The C3 does a perfectly good job in its current form, just because it’s short doesn’t mean it could do with an extension. I don’t see the merits of a Tooting extension when Wandsworth is nearby and available on the 28 (albeit a short walk away) for all your shopping needs and Clapham Junction is available for all your transport needs. Main reason why I suggested extending the C3 is because there isn't many links from the Sands End area beyond Wandsworth. I think a 295 diversion isn't viable considering I believe there's traffic hotspots along the route which is why I felt the C3 was a better candidate to extend |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 28, 2021 12:42:30 GMT
The 28 wouldn’t be ideal running to the Riverside as it would increase its length having to double run via Southside Shopping Centre which is the main reason people go to Wandsworth. It would also be an expensive way of serving the site when the low frequency 485 exists. The C3 does a perfectly good job in its current form, just because it’s short doesn’t mean it could do with an extension. I don’t see the merits of a Tooting extension when Wandsworth is nearby and available on the 28 (albeit a short walk away) for all your shopping needs and Clapham Junction is available for all your transport needs. Main reason why I suggested extending the C3 is because there isn't many links from the Sands End area beyond Wandsworth. I think a 295 diversion isn't viable considering I believe there's traffic hotspots along the route which is why I felt the C3 was a better candidate to extend I understand why you chose the C3 as you are right about the 295 but the issue here is you don’t always extend a route to another place merely because that link doesn’t exist currently and I don’t see any demand from Sands End to anywhere south of Wandsworth that would warrant an extension |
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Post by abellion on Oct 28, 2021 14:47:12 GMT
Main reason why I suggested extending the C3 is because there isn't many links from the Sands End area beyond Wandsworth. I think a 295 diversion isn't viable considering I believe there's traffic hotspots along the route which is why I felt the C3 was a better candidate to extend I understand why you chose the C3 as you are right about the 295 but the issue here is you don’t always extend a route to another place merely because that link doesn’t exist currently and I don’t see any demand from Sands End to anywhere south of Wandsworth that would warrant an extension I agree, people in Tooting really have no reason to go to Sands End or Chelsea just like people in Barnes have no reason to go to Battersea |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2021 14:48:57 GMT
I understand why you chose the C3 as you are right about the 295 but the issue here is you don’t always extend a route to another place merely because that link doesn’t exist currently and I don’t see any demand from Sands End to anywhere south of Wandsworth that would warrant an extension I agree, people in Tooting really have no reason to go to Sands End or Chelsea just like people in Barnes have no reason to go to Battersea 319? |
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