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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2021 12:51:55 GMT
There’s four other routes that will take you to Stamford Hill then interchange for the 338. It’s not that deep. The link between Stamford Hill and Homerton Hospital + Stratford could be popular as well. Yeah but how do we know that, when it doesn't exist yet? The fact is that the 67 still has purpose despite being shortened, and as LondonNorthern said the link between Stoke Newington and St Ann's is still popular so I believe it should be retained. I said could for a reason. I didn’t say it will definitely be popular. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2021 13:11:30 GMT
There’s four other routes that will take you to Stamford Hill then interchange for the 338. It’s not that deep. The link between Stamford Hill and Homerton Hospital + Stratford could be popular as well. It's not about it being "deep", the Stoke Newington link has existed since the 70s which shows that it is a very well-established link (and tends to be where demand fizzles out especially under the new routing) and where's the demand to suggest that the St Ann's/West Green area wants a link to Stratford? I think if you were wanting to link in that area to Stratford you'd be better off extending the 349, it would be fairly long but it should be able to manage.
You mention that the 338 will create lots of new demand (which I can't comment on) but the way in which you extend it will overbus other corridors at the same time. For example, the corridor around Kingsmead Estate I'm surprised hasn't seen a battering yet, the only saving grace being Homerton Hospital which would not go down well politically however there has been a sneaky decrease on the 236 (which was really illogical west of Hackney).
I think in this day and age, I think you'd be far better off perhaps extending routes (providing they remain reliable) than just creating new ones altogether. I can't think of many places in London where new routes are needed altogether but I think there needs to be more improvements to current ones in regards to frequency etc.
Then why does this page exist? I don’t see 349 being extended to Stratford. There might be too much overcrowding between the Stratford, Hackney, Tottenham and Edmonton areas and it would be long. New routes are still being implemented by TFL but mainly when there’s cuts involved so I don’t get your point. This change is the kind of change that TFL having doing with multiple routes in recent years. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Nov 6, 2021 13:20:28 GMT
It's not about it being "deep", the Stoke Newington link has existed since the 70s which shows that it is a very well-established link (and tends to be where demand fizzles out especially under the new routing) and where's the demand to suggest that the St Ann's/West Green area wants a link to Stratford? I think if you were wanting to link in that area to Stratford you'd be better off extending the 349, it would be fairly long but it should be able to manage.
You mention that the 338 will create lots of new demand (which I can't comment on) but the way in which you extend it will overbus other corridors at the same time. For example, the corridor around Kingsmead Estate I'm surprised hasn't seen a battering yet, the only saving grace being Homerton Hospital which would not go down well politically however there has been a sneaky decrease on the 236 (which was really illogical west of Hackney).
I think in this day and age, I think you'd be far better off perhaps extending routes (providing they remain reliable) than just creating new ones altogether. I can't think of many places in London where new routes are needed altogether but I think there needs to be more improvements to current ones in regards to frequency etc.
Then why does this page exist? I don’t see 349 being extended to Stratford. There might be too much overcrowding between the Stratford, Hackney, Tottenham and Edmonton areas and it would be long. New routes are still being implemented by TFL but mainly when there’s cuts involved so I don’t get your point. This change is the kind of change that TFL having doing with multiple routes in recent years. What type of cut do you mean exactly? The last major new route creation was probably the 483 and that did involve splitting the 83 which was really long overdue.
The types of cuts TFL are into are mergers, now I'm not a fan of mergers necessarily but if you wanted to reduce bus movements down Wood Green High Road you could merge the 67/329 into a Stoke Newington - Enfield route as from what I've seen Stoke Newington seems to be where the route tends to empty out. You could then stand it by West Hackney Recreation Ground and going northbound you'd still retain the S New High St link with all the shops and amenities.
What sort of overcrowding do you mean that would relate to the route becoming long if the 349 were to be extended?
The point of the thread is to suggest ideas and discuss the ideas. There are ideas on here that I myself have suggested that other members have disagreed with and that's completely fine.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 6, 2021 13:27:23 GMT
Just because the 67 is short means nothing, there are many examples in & out of London of useful short routes, another myth that needs stamping out But not only that, it already has three major bus routes between Stamford Hill and Dalston which are all 8 mins frequency unlike 67. I see no point keeping it. The link between Stamford Hill and Homerton Hospital could be key. And the extension to Stratford can control capacity on routes like 276, 308, 425 etc. I’ve no issue with the idea of a new route linking somewhere like Tottenham or Wood Green via a different routing to Stratford but not at the expense of the 67 as others have suggested how useful it is. The problem is the route doesn’t just run between Stamford Hill & Dalston so has other links that wouldn’t exist if it’s outright withdrawn |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2021 13:29:40 GMT
There’s four other routes that will take you to Stamford Hill then interchange for the 338. It’s not that deep. The link between Stamford Hill and Homerton Hospital + Stratford could be popular as well. Yeah but how do we know that, when it doesn't exist yet? The fact is that the 67 still has purpose despite being shortened, and as LondonNorthern said the link between Stoke Newington and St Ann's is still popular so I believe it should be retained. You still got several major routes paralleling with each other. TFL are trying to get rid of that. It’s been proven with the 67 itself between Dalston and Shoreditch with the 149, 242 and 243 and with routes 48/55. All those routes had purposes. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2021 13:41:42 GMT
But not only that, it already has three major bus routes between Stamford Hill and Dalston which are all 8 mins frequency unlike 67. I see no point keeping it. The link between Stamford Hill and Homerton Hospital could be key. And the extension to Stratford can control capacity on routes like 276, 308, 425 etc. I’ve no issue with the idea of a new route linking somewhere like Tottenham or Wood Green via a different routing to Stratford but not at the expense of the 67 as others have suggested how useful it is. The problem is the route doesn’t just run between Stamford Hill & Dalston so has other links that wouldn’t exist if it’s outright withdrawn But I don’t see how it can go via a different routing as the 67 for me would be a reasonable routing. I think if it went via Tottenham for example it will make the route less reliable plus it would parallel with routes like 76, 149, 243, and 476. |
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Post by SILENCED on Nov 6, 2021 14:09:22 GMT
But not only that, it already has three major bus routes between Stamford Hill and Dalston which are all 8 mins frequency unlike 67. I see no point keeping it. The link between Stamford Hill and Homerton Hospital could be key. And the extension to Stratford can control capacity on routes like 276, 308, 425 etc. I’ve no issue with the idea of a new route linking somewhere like Tottenham or Wood Green via a different routing to Stratford but not at the expense of the 67 as others have suggested how useful it is. The problem is the route doesn’t just run between Stamford Hill & Dalston so has other links that wouldn’t exist if it’s outright withdrawn 'has other links that wouldn’t exist if it’s outright withdrawn' ... this argument can be made for any route change/withdrawal. Hasn't stopped things happening in the past, and plenty sure there will be future route changes and withdrawals |
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Post by vjaska on Nov 6, 2021 14:37:01 GMT
I’ve no issue with the idea of a new route linking somewhere like Tottenham or Wood Green via a different routing to Stratford but not at the expense of the 67 as others have suggested how useful it is. The problem is the route doesn’t just run between Stamford Hill & Dalston so has other links that wouldn’t exist if it’s outright withdrawn 'has other links that wouldn’t exist if it’s outright withdrawn' ... this argument can be made for any route change/withdrawal. Hasn't stopped things happening in the past, and plenty sure there will be future route changes and withdrawals Doesn’t mean that it should just because it’s happened before |
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Post by YX10FFN on Nov 6, 2021 23:47:27 GMT
Just an idea to make the 414 more useful in its northern/eastern end, as I'm sure many users have debated the potential, or lack thereof, of terminating the route in Marble Arch.
Extend the route to Camden Town via Edgware Road, Hall Road, St Johns Wood, Avenue Road (new road), Swiss Cottage, Adelaide Road, Chalk Farm.
New stand on offside of Pratt Street immediately east of Bayham Street to accomodate 2 buses.
Route withdrawn between Putney Bridge and Fulham Broadway. Route 14 increased in frequency to compensate and route 424 revised to run every 20 minutes and to run during evenings.
Stand on Vanston Place extended to the east to accomodate 5 buses (loading bay removed).
- New link between Edgware Road and Swiss Cottage/Finchley Road/St Johns Wood
- New link between St Johns Wood and Chalk Farm/Camden
- New service provided to Avenue Road/Western edge of Primrose Hill
- More capacity provided on Swiss Cottage-Camden section.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Nov 7, 2021 0:20:13 GMT
Just an idea to make the 414 more useful in its northern/eastern end, as I'm sure many users have debated the potential, or lack thereof, of terminating the route in Marble Arch. Extend the route to Camden Town via Edgware Road, Hall Road, St Johns Wood, Avenue Road (new road), Swiss Cottage, Adelaide Road, Chalk Farm. New stand on offside of Pratt Street immediately east of Bayham Street to accomodate 2 buses. Route withdrawn between Putney Bridge and Fulham Broadway. Route 14 increased in frequency to compensate and route 424 revised to run every 20 minutes and to run during evenings. Stand on Vanston Place extended to the east to accomodate 5 buses (loading bay removed). - New link between Edgware Road and Swiss Cottage/Finchley Road/St Johns Wood - New link between St Johns Wood and Chalk Farm/Camden - New service provided to Avenue Road/Western edge of Primrose Hill - More capacity provided on Swiss Cottage-Camden section. I don't think this would be worth it. If the 414 were to be extended to Camden Town it probably be in replacement of the 274 (if the job were to be done I'd even then imagine it would be the 74), with perhaps something like the 476 taking on the eastern section to Camden Town/London Zoo from Angel (BTW this is not something I'm encouraging I'd imagine this be more likely). I can't comment on much but I suppose if you were to route the route in a slightly more useful and effective way you'd probably be better extending it directly to Swiss Cottage via the Finchley Road, whatever your opinions are on the 13 are, there's no doubt the effects of the old 82 removal still effect the corridor and I don't think the 13 should've been bolstered up to as high as it was because North Finchley to Golders Green didn't require all that extra capacity. I think it would've been far better to have kept all 3 Finchley Road routes at adjusted frequencies. You would provide extra capacity between Swiss Cottage & Camden which is fair enough but demand continues further on from Swiss Cottage westwards, so you could perhaps increase the 31 in frequency to its pre frequency reduction levels (again a very random route to reduce) and this should be possible given the 28/148/228/328 have seen freq reductions over recent years without overbussing anything. |
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Post by COBO on Nov 7, 2021 7:35:31 GMT
350 extended from Hayes Asda to Brentford County Court via route 195 to Brentford County Court. To be converted to double deck. To act as relief for the 195.
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Post by southlondon413 on Nov 7, 2021 7:51:53 GMT
350 extended from Hayes Asda to Brentford County Court via route 195 to Brentford County Court. To be converted to double deck. To act as relief for the 195. Does the 195 need relief or would converting it double decker just solve any capacity issues between Brentford & Hayes? |
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Post by COBO on Nov 7, 2021 8:32:20 GMT
350 extended from Hayes Asda to Brentford County Court via route 195 to Brentford County Court. To be converted to double deck. To act as relief for the 195. Does the 195 need relief or would converting it double decker just solve any capacity issues between Brentford & Hayes? Can the 195 be fully converted to double deck? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2021 9:44:37 GMT
Does the 195 need relief or would converting it double decker just solve any capacity issues between Brentford & Hayes? Can the 195 be fully converted to double deck? Extending the 350 just causes duplication. I believe the 195 can be decked but I'm not 100 sure. Here's what I propose in the Hayes area: 195 cut back to Church Road and extended on Uxbridge road to Hayes Sainsbury's (that's if the 195 can't be decked at the moment). Converted to DD
U7 extended to Hayes Prologis Park via 90 to Fairey Corner, North Hyde Road and Bourne Avenue. Double run at Hayes Sainsbury's removed to decrease journey times. To provide new links between Hayes Prologis Park and Charville. Frequency increased to 4bph Mon-Sat day time and 3bph at all other times.
350 extended to Southall Merrick Lane via 195 to Bull's Bridge, The Parkway, Pump Lane, Southall Waterside, Southall station, Merrick road. To create new links from Southall Waterside
Hayes Town is starting to get overbussed so I'd withdraw the 140 between there and Hayes Grapes and extend to Southall Town Hall. To create new links from Southall to Harrow. I think this would be viable because there's the X140 which will provide a quicker journey. There's the option to change at Hayes Grapes for the 140 for passengers wishing to travel beyond Harrow
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 7, 2021 10:08:06 GMT
Just an idea to make the 414 more useful in its northern/eastern end, as I'm sure many users have debated the potential, or lack thereof, of terminating the route in Marble Arch. Extend the route to Camden Town via Edgware Road, Hall Road, St Johns Wood, Avenue Road (new road), Swiss Cottage, Adelaide Road, Chalk Farm. New stand on offside of Pratt Street immediately east of Bayham Street to accomodate 2 buses. Route withdrawn between Putney Bridge and Fulham Broadway. Route 14 increased in frequency to compensate and route 424 revised to run every 20 minutes and to run during evenings. Stand on Vanston Place extended to the east to accomodate 5 buses (loading bay removed). - New link between Edgware Road and Swiss Cottage/Finchley Road/St Johns Wood - New link between St Johns Wood and Chalk Farm/Camden - New service provided to Avenue Road/Western edge of Primrose Hill - More capacity provided on Swiss Cottage-Camden section. I don't think this would be worth it. If the 414 were to be extended to Camden Town it probably be in replacement of the 274 (if the job were to be done I'd even then imagine it would be the 74), with perhaps something like the 476 taking on the eastern section to Camden Town/London Zoo from Angel (BTW this is not something I'm encouraging I'd imagine this be more likely). I can't comment on much but I suppose if you were to route the route in a slightly more useful and effective way you'd probably be better extending it directly to Swiss Cottage via the Finchley Road, whatever your opinions are on the 13 are, there's no doubt the effects of the old 82 removal still effect the corridor and I don't think the 13 should've been bolstered up to as high as it was because North Finchley to Golders Green didn't require all that extra capacity. I think it would've been far better to have kept all 3 Finchley Road routes at adjusted frequencies. You would provide extra capacity between Swiss Cottage & Camden which is fair enough but demand continues further on from Swiss Cottage westwards, so you could perhaps increase the 31 in frequency to its pre frequency reduction levels (again a very random route to reduce) and this should be possible given the 28/148/228/328 have seen freq reductions over recent years without overbussing anything. Was hard to keep the 13 thou with what TFL had in mind for Oxford Street. It could had led to the 13 just being a Golders Green to Baker Street/Marble Arch short of the 82 as we know they really only had plans for the 7/98/139/390 along Oxford Street and only the 139/390 had the full pedestrianisation gone ahead. |
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