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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Dec 16, 2021 8:41:09 GMT
I'd always favoured a route running up to Walthamstow via the N73, possibly up to St James Street seeing as there would be stand issues at the central bus station. Unfortunately the 73 has struggled to serve Seven Sisters at all times of the day when it was there, so its frequency would be hard to justify along Forest Road. Shame though as the 123 would benefit with another route properly paralleling/assisting it along the Forest Road corridor. One change that I've seen and really like (shout out to the OP who put that forgot who it was), you could withdraw Edmonton Green- Lea Valley Leisure Centre from the W8 and extend it to Walthamstow Central via Tottenham Hale and Forest Road and have the 192 or W6 replace the W8 between Edmonton Green and LVLC. I think it was VMH2537
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Post by enviroPB on Dec 16, 2021 11:02:02 GMT
I'd always favoured a route running up to Walthamstow via the N73, possibly up to St James Street seeing as there would be stand issues at the central bus station. Unfortunately the 73 has struggled to serve Seven Sisters at all times of the day when it was there, so its frequency would be hard to justify along Forest Road. Shame though as the 123 would benefit with another route properly paralleling/assisting it along the Forest Road corridor. One change that I've seen and really like (shout out to the OP who put that forgot who it was), you could withdraw Edmonton Green- Lea Valley Leisure Centre from the W8 and extend it to Walthamstow Central via Tottenham Hale and Forest Road and have the 192 or W6 replace the W8 between Edmonton Green and LVLC. We're verging further north into unfamiliar territory for me, but I know the W8 uses single decks and I don't think the capacity would be enough. It has to be a double deck route for when the 123 throws a wobbly on the A406, single deckers would struggle to clear up passengers. I know everyone has their own ideas for the 349, but withdrawing it from Stamford Hill and rerouting the 349 via Broad Lane, Tottenham Hale, Forest Road and Hoe Street up to Walthamstow Central would be a good idea. Why via Broad Lane? To not break as many journeys as possible up to Seven Sisters.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 16, 2021 11:21:45 GMT
One change that I've seen and really like (shout out to the OP who put that forgot who it was), you could withdraw Edmonton Green- Lea Valley Leisure Centre from the W8 and extend it to Walthamstow Central via Tottenham Hale and Forest Road and have the 192 or W6 replace the W8 between Edmonton Green and LVLC. We're verging further north into unfamiliar territory for me, but I know the W8 uses single decks and I don't think the capacity would be enough. It has to be a double deck route for when the 123 throws a wobbly on the A406, single deckers would struggle to clear up passengers. I know everyone has their own ideas for the 349, but withdrawing it from Stamford Hill and rerouting the 349 via Broad Lane, Tottenham Hale, Forest Road and Hoe Street up to Walthamstow Central would be a good idea. Why via Broad Lane? To not break as many journeys as possible up to Seven Sisters. The 123 used to have other buses to help it along Forest Rd. It used to have the 144 from Ilford mirroring it up until Hale End Rd. Then it had the 251, although hourly mirroring it from Gants Hill to Walthamstow Bell, then going to Walthamstow Central. I cannot see that much demand now especially as they made the W11 go via Blackhorse Rd and Forest Rd, up until near Palmerston Rd junction.
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Post by enviroPB on Dec 16, 2021 11:38:56 GMT
We're verging further north into unfamiliar territory for me, but I know the W8 uses single decks and I don't think the capacity would be enough. It has to be a double deck route for when the 123 throws a wobbly on the A406, single deckers would struggle to clear up passengers. I know everyone has their own ideas for the 349, but withdrawing it from Stamford Hill and rerouting the 349 via Broad Lane, Tottenham Hale, Forest Road and Hoe Street up to Walthamstow Central would be a good idea. Why via Broad Lane? To not break as many journeys as possible up to Seven Sisters. The 123 used to have other buses to help it along Forest Rd. It used to have the 144 from Ilford mirroring it up until Hale End Rd. Then it had the 251, although hourly mirroring it from Gants Hill to Walthamstow Bell, then going to Walthamstow Central. I cannot see that much demand now especially as they made the W11 go via Blackhorse Rd and Forest Rd, up until near Palmerston Rd junction. Working from home aside, the W11 provides little support to the residents living near Beacontree Avenue if a packed 123 pulls up after Palmerston Road westbound. There needs to be enough of an overlap, like mirroring the N73 up to the Bell like @buses1350 suggested to tackle the capacity issues on Forest Road. Right now the 275 is the closest thing relieving the 123 and it barely traverses a quarter of that corridor.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 16, 2021 11:42:23 GMT
After having a look at the previous posts, I feel that culling the Bakerloo Line is too extreme. What about some other cuts to outer extremities of tube lines, replaced by buses with lower capacities? Could some of the North-eastern Central line go? A lot of this is outside the GLA, so I'm surprised TfL haven't done something about this earlier. NEW BUS ROUTE X49: Epping Station - Station Road - High Street - (High Road - Theydon Road - Piercing Hill - Coppice Row) - Theydon Bois Station - (Abridge Road) - Abridge Market Place - London Road - (Abridge Road - Chigwell Lane) - Debden The Broadway - Burton Road - (Borders Lane - Alderton Hill) - Loughton Station - Old Station Road - (High Road) - Palmerston Road - Buckhurst Hill Station Victoria Road - (Albert Road - Buckhurst Way - Hillside Avenue) - Woodford Station
EXTENSION TO BUS ROUTE 362:
From Whalebone Lane North: Romford Road - Lambourne Road - Manor Road - Grange Hill Station - Manford Way - Brocket Way - The Lowe - Hainault New North Road - Fencepiece Road - Hainault Road - Chigwell Station - Chigwell Rise - Roding Lane - Buckhurst Hill Station Victoria Road - Albert Road - Buckhurst Way - Roding Valley Station - Hillside Avenue - Woodford Station St Barnabas Road - Broadmead Road - Chigwell Road - George Lane - South Woodford Station
X49 - Every 12 minutes with 10.2m single decks. Express sections in brackets. No change to 362 vehicle type but frequency increased to every 20 minutes. 549 withdrawn. Central Line - All trains cut back to Woodford instead of continuing Epping-bound. There will still be 5 with-the-flow peak journeys on the Central Line from Epping Monday to Friday only. That X49 would fall flat on its face. There has been so many operators try various different routes around the Debden, Loughton, Epping corridor and they just do not seem to last.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 16, 2021 11:43:39 GMT
After having a look at the previous posts, I feel that culling the Bakerloo Line is too extreme. What about some other cuts to outer extremities of tube lines, replaced by buses with lower capacities? Could some of the North-eastern Central line go? A lot of this is outside the GLA, so I'm surprised TfL haven't done something about this earlier. NEW BUS ROUTE X49: Epping Station - Station Road - High Street - (High Road - Theydon Road - Piercing Hill - Coppice Row) - Theydon Bois Station - (Abridge Road) - Abridge Market Place - London Road - (Abridge Road - Chigwell Lane) - Debden The Broadway - Burton Road - (Borders Lane - Alderton Hill) - Loughton Station - Old Station Road - (High Road) - Palmerston Road - Buckhurst Hill Station Victoria Road - (Albert Road - Buckhurst Way - Hillside Avenue) - Woodford Station
EXTENSION TO BUS ROUTE 362:
From Whalebone Lane North: Romford Road - Lambourne Road - Manor Road - Grange Hill Station - Manford Way - Brocket Way - The Lowe - Hainault New North Road - Fencepiece Road - Hainault Road - Chigwell Station - Chigwell Rise - Roding Lane - Buckhurst Hill Station Victoria Road - Albert Road - Buckhurst Way - Roding Valley Station - Hillside Avenue - Woodford Station St Barnabas Road - Broadmead Road - Chigwell Road - George Lane - South Woodford Station
X49 - Every 12 minutes with 10.2m single decks. Express sections in brackets. No change to 362 vehicle type but frequency increased to every 20 minutes. 549 withdrawn. Central Line - All trains cut back to Woodford instead of continuing Epping-bound. There will still be 5 with-the-flow peak journeys on the Central Line from Epping Monday to Friday only. Cutting the Central Line back to Woodford? no chance it is extremely well used to Epping and people from places further away travel there by bus to connect to the tube! I would say its much busier compared to the Bakerloo Line. It is very well used. It would be revenue suicide to cut the Central line back to Woodford.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Dec 16, 2021 12:30:16 GMT
One change that I've seen and really like (shout out to the OP who put that forgot who it was), you could withdraw Edmonton Green- Lea Valley Leisure Centre from the W8 and extend it to Walthamstow Central via Tottenham Hale and Forest Road and have the 192 or W6 replace the W8 between Edmonton Green and LVLC. I think it was VMH2537Sorry to toot my own horn, but it was me He does come up with great suggestions though no matter how much I disagree with him on Meridian Water
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Post by vjaska on Dec 16, 2021 12:46:57 GMT
Sorry to toot my own horn, but it was me He does come up with great suggestions though no matter how much I disagree with him on Meridian Water TBF, both the suggestion of a W8 to from Walthamstow to Enfield & a Walthamstow to Enfield route in general has appeared on here numerous times over the years and is a very good suggestion overall regardless of who mentioned it
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Post by vjaska on Dec 16, 2021 12:48:55 GMT
One change that I've seen and really like (shout out to the OP who put that forgot who it was), you could withdraw Edmonton Green- Lea Valley Leisure Centre from the W8 and extend it to Walthamstow Central via Tottenham Hale and Forest Road and have the 192 or W6 replace the W8 between Edmonton Green and LVLC. We're verging further north into unfamiliar territory for me, but I know the W8 uses single decks and I don't think the capacity would be enough. It has to be a double deck route for when the 123 throws a wobbly on the A406, single deckers would struggle to clear up passengers. I know everyone has their own ideas for the 349, but withdrawing it from Stamford Hill and rerouting the 349 via Broad Lane, Tottenham Hale, Forest Road and Hoe Street up to Walthamstow Central would be a good idea. Why via Broad Lane? To not break as many journeys as possible up to Seven Sisters. The W8 has been double decker for a few decades now, was you thinking of the W9 which is single decker and shares a terminal with the W8 at Chase Farm Hospital?
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Post by barrypotter on Dec 16, 2021 13:22:08 GMT
We're verging further north into unfamiliar territory for me, but I know the W8 uses single decks and I don't think the capacity would be enough. It has to be a double deck route for when the 123 throws a wobbly on the A406, single deckers would struggle to clear up passengers. I know everyone has their own ideas for the 349, but withdrawing it from Stamford Hill and rerouting the 349 via Broad Lane, Tottenham Hale, Forest Road and Hoe Street up to Walthamstow Central would be a good idea. Why via Broad Lane? To not break as many journeys as possible up to Seven Sisters. The W8 has been double decker for a few decades now, was you thinking of the W9 which is single decker and shares a terminal with the W8 at Chase Farm Hospital? For a short while in 2003, whilst the road beneath the railway at Edmonton Green was being lowered, single decks were used. I think W8 is still on the blinds,but will check later.
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Post by Busboy105 on Dec 16, 2021 13:51:37 GMT
One change that I've seen and really like (shout out to the OP who put that forgot who it was), you could withdraw Edmonton Green- Lea Valley Leisure Centre from the W8 and extend it to Walthamstow Central via Tottenham Hale and Forest Road and have the 192 or W6 replace the W8 between Edmonton Green and LVLC. We're verging further north into unfamiliar territory for me, but I know the W8 uses single decks and I don't think the capacity would be enough. It has to be a double deck route for when the 123 throws a wobbly on the A406, single deckers would struggle to clear up passengers. I know everyone has their own ideas for the 349, but withdrawing it from Stamford Hill and rerouting the 349 via Broad Lane, Tottenham Hale, Forest Road and Hoe Street up to Walthamstow Central would be a good idea. Why via Broad Lane? To not break as many journeys as possible up to Seven Sisters. Wi doesn't use single deckers. It uses TE's with the occasional VW every now and again
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Post by rif153 on Dec 16, 2021 13:54:29 GMT
Much of what I think has probably already been said by others. I really don't see the point in carving up the 281, it provides unique links which would be lost under your plans such as the Kingston-Hounslow link purely for the sake of mitigating for the loss of the R70 under your proposals - I don't think the 421 route you propose to replace the loss of the 281 to Hounslow would be anywhere near as useful. The 440 change was a complete mess and Chiswick Business Park is a ghost town, as I think someone already said, 27s used to carry fresh air west of Turnham Green - I suspect TfL felt it was less wasteful to have a bus route passing through the business park as opposed to terminating there. Sadly the 440 won't be restored to Bollo Lane because of the level crossing, which is a real shame as it provided great local links around Chiswick. Disagree with the 190/371 change, seems like complete madness to me. The 371 would become a very lengthy route - bear in mind it doesn't take a direct route from Richmond to Kingston to begin with. I'm an Ealing resident and I can say that the likes of Midhurst and Coldershaw roads are unsuitable for buses, its not uncommon to see cars having to move aside to let each other pass so buses there are a non starter for me. MAYBE there is something to be said for a link from Chiswick to the areas north west of it, but whether the demand is there is there I remain to be convinced.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 16, 2021 14:09:47 GMT
The W8 has been double decker for a few decades now, was you thinking of the W9 which is single decker and shares a terminal with the W8 at Chase Farm Hospital? For a short while in 2003, whilst the road beneath the railway at Edmonton Green was being lowered, single decks were used. I think W8 is still on the blinds,but will check later. Yes indeed though that was only temporary as you say so didn't want to count it
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Dec 16, 2021 14:47:34 GMT
Much of what I think has probably already been said by others. I really don't see the point in carving up the 281, it provides unique links which would be lost under your plans such as the Kingston-Hounslow link purely for the sake of mitigating for the loss of the R70 under your proposals - I don't think the 421 route you propose to replace the loss of the 281 to Hounslow would be anywhere near as useful. The 440 change was a complete mess and Chiswick Business Park is a ghost town, as I think someone already said, 27s used to carry fresh air west of Turnham Green - I suspect TfL felt it was less wasteful to have a bus route passing through the business park as opposed to terminating there. Sadly the 440 won't be restored to Bollo Lane because of the level crossing, which is a real shame as it provided great local links around Chiswick. Disagree with the 190/371 change, seems like complete madness to me. The 371 would become a very lengthy route - bear in mind it doesn't take a direct route from Richmond to Kingston to begin with. I'm an Ealing resident and I can say that the likes of Midhurst and Coldershaw roads are unsuitable for buses, its not uncommon to see cars having to move aside to let each other pass so buses there are a non starter for me. MAYBE there is something to be said for a link from Chiswick to the areas north west of it, but whether the demand is there is there I remain to be convinced. Thank you. As previously stated in a reply to YX10FFN , I've gone back on all of those ideas. It's mostly just the Barnes area changes that have been kept, with the 440 via Bollo Lane to Grove Park and the 272 to CBP.
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Post by greenboy on Dec 16, 2021 15:43:14 GMT
I could possibly see something like this happening.......
3 Extended from Whitehall to Hampstead Heath. Withdrawn between Brixton and Crystal Palace and rerouted via the 45 route to Clapham Park.
11 Withdrawn between Victoria and Fulham Broadway and rerouted via the 24 route to Pimlico.
45 Rerouted from Streatham Hill via 333 route to Tooting Broadway.
59 Withdrawn between Brixton and BN and rerouted via the 3 to Crystal Palace. Possibly reallocated to N.
118 Extended from Brixton via 333 route to Kennington.
311 New route, Fulham Broadway to Victoria via the 11 route and then via the 507 route to Waterloo.
Routes 24,333 and 507 withdrawn.
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