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Post by northlondon83 on Oct 26, 2023 9:22:45 GMT
New Addington/Biggin Hill changes 130 - withdrawn between New Addington and Addington Village. Would still run to New Addington tram stop but direct via Lodge Lane. Would then be extended to Biggin Hill Valley, replacing part of the 464 (see below). Frequency reduced to 3-4bph (potentially 4bph on the Thornton Heath to New Addington section and 3bph as far as Biggin Hill) 466 - extended from Addington Village to New Addington via the current 130 route, replacing route 130. Gives areas like Fieldway an additional link to Croydon R2 - would not be withdrawn, but instead extended/diverted to Tatsfield via the 464. To replace the 464. Other Orpington proposals bar the R6 and B14 would not go ahead in my proposal for the R2 464 - withdrawn, replaced by the 3 above routes. I don't think TfL would sanction the 466 extension into New Addington as it would take custom away from Tramlink. The 130 extension to Biggin Hill would have some merit if it weren't for the narrow lanes which would rule out a more frequent service with larger buses. I do think there would be some merit in creating a Biggin Hill to Addington Village link, if not the 130 then the 464 however as other people said this would overbus New Addington to Addington Village
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Post by vjaska on Oct 26, 2023 12:32:29 GMT
I don't think TfL would sanction the 466 extension into New Addington as it would take custom away from Tramlink. The 130 extension to Biggin Hill would have some merit if it weren't for the narrow lanes which would rule out a more frequent service with larger buses. I do think there would be some merit in creating a Biggin Hill to Addington Village link, if not the 130 then the 464 however as other people said this would overbus New Addington to Addington Village Extending the 464 instead towards Addington Village could work because of its lower frequency - remember that the 466 is every 8 minutes in comparison. The 464 could even continue onto Forestdale where the shorter buses are better suited to the bottom of Courtwood Lane than the 353 due to the amount of parking and how narrow the road is at the bottom near the roundabout
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 26, 2023 12:39:23 GMT
I do think there would be some merit in creating a Biggin Hill to Addington Village link, if not the 130 then the 464 however as other people said this would overbus New Addington to Addington Village Extending the 464 instead towards Addington Village could work because of its lower frequency - remember that the 466 is every 8 minutes in comparison. The 464 could even continue onto Forestdale where the shorter buses are better suited to the bottom of Courtwood Lane than the 353 due to the amount of parking and how narrow the road is at the bottom near the roundabout Whilst I agree that part of Courtwood Lane does not need double deckers, let banish this issue Courtwood Lane has an issue with the deckers. They cope fine. Leyland Lynx's operated there without issue for years
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Post by DT 11 on Oct 26, 2023 12:44:38 GMT
I do think there would be some merit in creating a Biggin Hill to Addington Village link, if not the 130 then the 464 however as other people said this would overbus New Addington to Addington Village Extending the 464 instead towards Addington Village could work because of its lower frequency - remember that the 466 is every 8 minutes in comparison. The 464 could even continue onto Forestdale where the shorter buses are better suited to the bottom of Courtwood Lane than the 353 due to the amount of parking and how narrow the road is at the bottom near the roundabout The 464 however is specifically timed so that neither of the two buses are using Saltbox Hill at the same time. I doubt any sort of extension would ever happen to the 464. I would say plenty of buses between New Addington & Addington Village as well as the Tramlink.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 26, 2023 12:49:50 GMT
Extending the 464 instead towards Addington Village could work because of its lower frequency - remember that the 466 is every 8 minutes in comparison. The 464 could even continue onto Forestdale where the shorter buses are better suited to the bottom of Courtwood Lane than the 353 due to the amount of parking and how narrow the road is at the bottom near the roundabout The 464 however is specifically timed so that neither of the two buses are using Saltbox Hill at the same time. I doubt any sort of extension would ever happen to the 464. I would say plenty of buses between New Addington & Addington Village as well as the Tramlink. I’m not saying it definitely should, see the word could for example. In any event, I’m sure there are other methods available to stop buses meeting on that section
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Post by DT 11 on Oct 26, 2023 12:58:02 GMT
The 464 however is specifically timed so that neither of the two buses are using Saltbox Hill at the same time. I doubt any sort of extension would ever happen to the 464. I would say plenty of buses between New Addington & Addington Village as well as the Tramlink. I’m not saying it definitely should, see the word could for example. In any event, I’m sure there are other methods available to stop buses meeting on that section I hear you only thing that would work is Changing the whole timetable, probably not as drivers on that route towards New Addington are instructed to not proceed on Saltbox Hill until the other bus has passed.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 26, 2023 13:03:26 GMT
Extending the 464 instead towards Addington Village could work because of its lower frequency - remember that the 466 is every 8 minutes in comparison. The 464 could even continue onto Forestdale where the shorter buses are better suited to the bottom of Courtwood Lane than the 353 due to the amount of parking and how narrow the road is at the bottom near the roundabout Whilst I agree that part of Courtwood Lane does not need double deckers, let banish this issue Courtwood Lane has an issue with the deckers. They cope fine. Leyland Lynx's operated there without issue for years Guess they didn’t park as badly in the Lynx days then? Last two times I was down there, the first we were stuck because of a poorly parked van (there would of been enough of a gap in a short MMC in comparison) and the second was in an Omnitown which had to drive almost with no acceleration because of how ridiculously tight it was though at least people had correctly parked. I also didn’t say double deckers are out and out an issue as for balance, I’ve been through on a decker without trouble just that I think smaller vehicles are better suited for reasons hence my particular wording
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Post by Paul on Oct 26, 2023 14:01:33 GMT
I do think there would be some merit in creating a Biggin Hill to Addington Village link, if not the 130 then the 464 however as other people said this would overbus New Addington to Addington Village I’m not familiar with the timings of the 464 but it would surprise me if it isn’t timed to meet a tram at the New Addington tram stop. To that end, it seems somewhat superfluous to run the 464 down Lodge Lane to the Interchange. I think the 464/tram combination links Biggin Hill and the AVI sufficiently
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Post by londonbuses on Oct 28, 2023 12:42:50 GMT
218 Hammersmith to Wembley (5bph DD) Withdrawn between Acton Town Hall and North Acton, and extended from Acton Town Hall to Wembley via route 266 to North Acton, 260 to Park Royal ASDA and 440 to Wembley. Upgraded to DDs.
224 Ealing Broadway to St Raphael's (5bph SD) Withdrawn between Central Middlesex Hospital and Alperton, and extended to Ealing Broadway via route 224. Frequency increased from 3bph to 5bph.
226 Central Middlesex Hospital to Golders Green (5bph SD) Withdrawn between Central Middlesex Hospital and Ealing Broadway.
266 Brent Cross to Chiswick Business Park (7.5bph DD) Extended from Acton Town Hall to Chiswick Business Park via route 440.
440 Alperton Sainsburys to Chiswick Power Road (4bph SD) Route entirely restructured. New routing - 224 from Alperton Sainsburys to Abbey Road, Twyford Abbey Road, double run Iveagh Avenue, Twyford Abbey Road (through unused bus gate), Bodiam Way, 226 to Park Royal ASDA, existing 440 to North Acton, 218 to Acton Town Hall, Winchester Street, Acton Lane, Beaconsfield Road, South Parade, Acton Lane, Chiswick High Road and Power Road. Existing frequency of 4bph unchanged.
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Post by ADH45258 on Oct 28, 2023 18:17:58 GMT
218 Hammersmith to Wembley (5bph DD) Withdrawn between Acton Town Hall and North Acton, and extended from Acton Town Hall to Wembley via route 266 to North Acton, 260 to Park Royal ASDA and 440 to Wembley. Upgraded to DDs. 224 Ealing Broadway to St Raphael's (5bph SD) Withdrawn between Central Middlesex Hospital and Alperton, and extended to Ealing Broadway via route 224. Frequency increased from 3bph to 5bph. 226 Central Middlesex Hospital to Golders Green (5bph SD) Withdrawn between Central Middlesex Hospital and Ealing Broadway. 266 Brent Cross to Chiswick Business Park (7.5bph DD) Extended from Acton Town Hall to Chiswick Business Park via route 440. 440 Alperton Sainsburys to Chiswick Power Road (4bph SD) Route entirely restructured. New routing - 224 from Alperton Sainsburys to Abbey Road, Twyford Abbey Road, double run Iveagh Avenue, Twyford Abbey Road (through unused bus gate), Bodiam Way, 226 to Park Royal ASDA, existing 440 to North Acton, 218 to Acton Town Hall, Winchester Street, Acton Lane, Beaconsfield Road, South Parade, Acton Lane, Chiswick High Road and Power Road. Existing frequency of 4bph unchanged. If the 226 were to be cut back to Park Royal it could probably convert to DDs to increase capacity? Not sure about sending the 224 to Ealing, as the higher frequency may not be needed on the rest of the route. An alternative though might be to reroute the 206 to operate between Ealing Broadway and Kilburn Park (also offering a slight overlap with the 226 towards Willesden). Then have another route cover the 206 from Harlesden to Wembley Park, continuing via Fryent Way to Kingsbury and beyond for some new links? For example perhaps the 288 could be revised to run between Edgware and Willesden Junction (and the 303 extended to Broadfields)? I wonder if TFL might look at reviewing the 224 again at some point, following the 79's recent extension to Stonebridge Park? Some swaps with the 218 could allow a revised 440 to take over part of the 224 as you suggest.
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Post by VH45241 on Oct 30, 2023 22:30:40 GMT
218 Hammersmith to Wembley (5bph DD) Withdrawn between Acton Town Hall and North Acton, and extended from Acton Town Hall to Wembley via route 266 to North Acton, 260 to Park Royal ASDA and 440 to Wembley. Upgraded to DDs. 224 Ealing Broadway to St Raphael's (5bph SD) Withdrawn between Central Middlesex Hospital and Alperton, and extended to Ealing Broadway via route 224. Frequency increased from 3bph to 5bph. 226 Central Middlesex Hospital to Golders Green (5bph SD) Withdrawn between Central Middlesex Hospital and Ealing Broadway. 266 Brent Cross to Chiswick Business Park (7.5bph DD) Extended from Acton Town Hall to Chiswick Business Park via route 440. 440 Alperton Sainsburys to Chiswick Power Road (4bph SD) Route entirely restructured. New routing - 224 from Alperton Sainsburys to Abbey Road, Twyford Abbey Road, double run Iveagh Avenue, Twyford Abbey Road (through unused bus gate), Bodiam Way, 226 to Park Royal ASDA, existing 440 to North Acton, 218 to Acton Town Hall, Winchester Street, Acton Lane, Beaconsfield Road, South Parade, Acton Lane, Chiswick High Road and Power Road. Existing frequency of 4bph unchanged. I only have an issue with the 266 suggestion, as a spare driver that drives the 266 and the 440 and many other routes at RP, having the 266 go to chiswick business park via the 440 route will be very difficult as bollo bridge road is tight, to have a 7.5bph high frequecy route go down that road you will see buses get stuck on that road, i have seen and experience this happen gunnersbury lane was closed and all traffic was diverted to bollo bridge road. it was a nightmare to be driving those 2 days
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Post by COBO on Oct 31, 2023 4:00:51 GMT
To not clog the consultation page I think I have an idea that resolve the problem: 123: Withdrawn between Lordship Lane and Wood Green and diverted to Turnpike Lane via route 144 to Turnpike Lane. 243: Diverted between The Roundway West Arm and Wood Green via route 123.
By doing this you'll be maintaining the round a corner link between Westbury Avenue and Wood Green and also removing stand space at Wood Green for the 91.
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Post by ADH45258 on Oct 31, 2023 18:41:53 GMT
To not clog the consultation page I think I have an idea that resolve the problem: 123: Withdrawn between Lordship Lane and Wood Green and diverted to Turnpike Lane via route 144 to Turnpike Lane. 243: Diverted between The Roundway West Arm and Wood Green via route 123. By doing this you'll be maintaining the round a corner link between Westbury Avenue and Wood Green and also removing stand space at Wood Green for the 91. I'm not sure the 123 change is entirely for stand space. Cutting back to Turnpike Lane will also make some savings which (along with the 232 change) could directly fund the 91's extension. If the local link between Wood Green Station and Westbury Avenue is important - another solution could perhaps be to divert the W4 slightly here? So from Turnpike Lane Station the W4 could go via Westbury Avenue, Rusper Road and Downhills Way, back to the line of route at Downhills Park Road.
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Post by ADH45258 on Oct 31, 2023 21:02:34 GMT
Restructure idea including several routes discussed recently:
11 - Extended from Fulham Broadway to Hammersmith via the 211.
211 - Withdrawn, replaced by revised routes 11 and 49.
49 - Revised to operate between White City and Vauxhall, via current route from White City to Chelsea, then Kings Road to Sloane Square, and the 452 to Vauxhall. Links Chelsea to Battersea in place of the 211 (though serving the Power Station by Chelsea Bridge only).
452 - Withdrawn between Vauxhall and Sloane Square (though could continue to terminate near Victoria Coach Station if stand space is unavailable). Rerouted at Ladbroke Grove Sainsburys to extend via the 18 to Harlesden (Craven Park) - no longer serving Kensal Rise. To support the 18, and cover the missing local link between Kensal Green and Ladbroke Grove / Notting Hill.
156 - Withdrawn between Vauxhall and Clapham Junction, and instead extended to South Kensington via the 49.
436 - Extended from Battersea Park to Clapham Junction via the 156.
24 - Extended from Pimlico (serving Lupus Street in both directions) via Chelsea Bridge to Battersea Power Station.
C1 - Withdrawn, replaced by revised routes 49, 360 and C3, plus existing routes to/from Knightsbridge.
C3 - Extended from Earls Court to White City via the C1.
360 - Diverted between Pimlico and Sloane Square via the C10 to Victoria, then Eaton Square. Also extended from South Kensington Station (no longer serving Exhibition Road) to Hammersmith via the C1 to Earls Court Station, then the A4 (serving new stops near West Kensington and Barons Court).
C10 - Diverted between Millbank and Victoria more directly via Horseferry Road, fully covering the 507.
3 - Removed from Victoria, and restored back to terminate near Trafalgar Square.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 31, 2023 21:16:51 GMT
Restructure idea including several routes discussed recently: 11 - Extended from Fulham Broadway to Hammersmith via the 211. 211 - Withdrawn, replaced by revised routes 11 and 49. 49 - Revised to operate between White City and Vauxhall, via current route from White City to Chelsea, then Kings Road to Sloane Square, and the 452 to Vauxhall. Links Chelsea to Battersea in place of the 211 (though serving the Power Station by Chelsea Bridge only). 452 - Withdrawn between Vauxhall and Sloane Square (though could continue to terminate near Victoria Coach Station if stand space is unavailable). Rerouted at Ladbroke Grove Sainsburys to extend via the 18 to Harlesden (Craven Park) - no longer serving Kensal Rise. To support the 18, and cover the missing local link between Kensal Green and Ladbroke Grove / Notting Hill. 156 - Withdrawn between Vauxhall and Clapham Junction, and instead extended to South Kensington via the 49. 436 - Extended from Battersea Park to Clapham Junction via the 156. 24 - Extended from Pimlico (serving Lupus Street in both directions) via Chelsea Bridge to Battersea Power Station. C1 - Withdrawn, replaced by revised routes 49, 360 and C3, plus existing routes to/from Knightsbridge. C3 - Extended from Earls Court to White City via the C1. 360 - Diverted between Pimlico and Sloane Square via the C10 to Victoria, then Eaton Square. Also extended from South Kensington Station (no longer serving Exhibition Road) to Hammersmith via the C1 to Earls Court Station, then the A4 (serving new stops near West Kensington and Barons Court). C10 - Diverted between Millbank and Victoria more directly via Horseferry Road, fully covering the 507. 3 - Removed from Victoria, and restored back to terminate near Trafalgar Square. Unsurprisingly, I disagree with a lot of this: I don't think the 11 should be extended after finally being chopped into a more manageable state, it should be left to have some stability as it is for a while. I also think the 211 should be given a chance even though I've not been a fan of the proposed extension and in any case, I'm not convinced by total withdrawal of that or the other changes to the 49, 452, 360 C1 & C3. Victoria is already directly linked to Battersea Power Station with the 44 where if you alight at Chelsea Bridge, your right next to the shopping complex so not sure what the 24 brings to the table
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