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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 20, 2023 23:53:15 GMT
There are some pinch points in there. I believe Wightman Road was rejected as unsuitable for buses some time ago. Mayes Road isn't a good bet either. Both have narrow points and parking issues. Mayes Rd can have buses and sometimes does get buses diverted down there. Wightman Road has had narrow pinch points because of the council. If some of these were removed buses can go down there. There has been a double decker taken down there some years ago.
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Dec 24, 2023 10:50:39 GMT
Following the discussion of route 209 in the Upcoming changes thread I've come up with some ideas of my own for the area, also accounting for the three major housing developments in the area. 33 - Re-extended to Hammersmith Bus Station. Decked if possible, frequency increased if not. 72 - Re-extended to Roehampton, Bessborough Road. Again decked if possible, frequency increased if not. 209 - Extended to Richmond Bus Station via route 419 in place of Avondale Road, and re-extended to Hammersmith. Increased to 7bph or 8bph. This would ensure the Stag Brewery redevelopment has a high frequency link to both Hammersmith and Richmond, and the North Sheen Homebase development a high frequency link to Hammersmith. 378 - Extended from Avondale Road to Brentford (either Commerce Road or Half Acre) via route 419, South Circular and route 237. Reduced to 3bph. This opens up new links across Barnes and Mortlake, serves both the Stag Brewery and Kew Retail Park redevelopments, and also links the mentioned points of interest to Brentford, Kew Gardens and Putney. 419 and 533 - Withdrawn as no longer required. The lost section of route 419 at Lonsdale Road would be incorporated into YX10FFN 's earlier idea for new route 495 in Hammersmith and Fulham.* I'm not sure of the best route for it to take, but I would go for something along the lines of Avondale Road, Mortlake High Street, The Terrace, Lonsdale Road, Hammersmith Bridge, Hammersmith Bus Station, Fulham Palace Road, St Dunstan's Road or Beryl Road, Margravine Road, Greyhound Road, Vereker Road, Barons Court Road or Barton Road and Palliser Road, Gliddon Road, Edith Road, Blythe Road or Brook Green and Aynhoe Road, then following the original route to White City. This would run 2bph. Alternatively, a new 2bph route from West Middlesex Hospital to Hammersmith could be introduced, running via route H37 to Richmond, 969 and then 419. *interestingly this post was made on Christmas Eve as well, exactly two years ago!
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Post by YX10FFN on Dec 24, 2023 11:44:26 GMT
Following the discussion of route 209 in the Upcoming changes thread I've come up with some ideas of my own for the area, also accounting for the three major housing developments in the area. Your idea for the 495 is not half bad, just a couple concerns. Taking the backstreets as I suggested requires midibus length buses due to tight roads especially in the area north of Hammersmith. The 419, even in its original form, suffered crush loads at certain times of the day, especially when serving Harrodian School. Unless a 609-type service was reintroduced, the route could not cope on its own with the bus length necessitated by the roads it takes north of Hammersmith. Also, my idea for the 495 saw it start at Fulham Broadway and approach Barons Court via North End Road, a major reason for this was to avoid Fulham Palace Road which encounters severe traffic. Wiggling around the backstreets and avoiding traffic hotspots may have even been a quicker option than the 295. So even with the doorstep service in Barons Court, the service may not be attractive to those residents if they know they’re gonna sit in traffic for 20 minutes before they reach Hammersmith
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Post by gwiwer on Dec 24, 2023 14:53:09 GMT
Avoid routing buses across Mortlake level crossing. The 969 copes because it is only a weekly service and there is only one unique stop on that short section of route. The barriers are down for more than 30 minutes in each hour and at peak times fomr as much as 45 minutes in an hour. Everyone knows to avoid that road if possible owing to the delays caused.
The same is of course true for Manor Road which has the same trains across it as Mortlake. Routing buses over those will lead to severe delays and dislocation. Which is probably why nothing (bar the weekly 969) uses them currently.
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Dec 24, 2023 19:44:43 GMT
Following the discussion of route 209 in the Upcoming changes thread I've come up with some ideas of my own for the area, also accounting for the three major housing developments in the area. Your idea for the 495 is not half bad, just a couple concerns. Taking the backstreets as I suggested requires midibus length buses due to tight roads especially in the area north of Hammersmith. The 419, even in its original form, suffered crush loads at certain times of the day, especially when serving Harrodian School. Unless a 609-type service was reintroduced, the route could not cope on its own with the bus length necessitated by the roads it takes north of Hammersmith. Also, my idea for the 495 saw it start at Fulham Broadway and approach Barons Court via North End Road, a major reason for this was to avoid Fulham Palace Road which encounters severe traffic. Wiggling around the backstreets and avoiding traffic hotspots may have even been a quicker option than the 295. So even with the doorstep service in Barons Court, the service may not be attractive to those residents if they know they’re gonna sit in traffic for 20 minutes before they reach Hammersmith Regarding your first point, the 609 could certainly be reintroduced to support the new 495. However, the majority of customers who used the 419 prior to the bridge closure would instead use the 209; only Lonsdale Road residents would likely use the 495 over the 209, which has been said to not be hugely well used. The 209 could be further increased in frequency if required. I agree with the 495 starting at Fulham Broadway and with the proposed route if it were to be introduced as an entirely separate route, but incorporating into it the 419 Lonsdale Road section means that the optimal routing can't be used. I'm not sure of a better routing to serve Barons Court though. Any suggestions?
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Post by Trafalgax on Dec 25, 2023 19:59:49 GMT
New Route EL4: Barking - Romford, Queen’s Hospital.
Via: Fanshawe Road (A123) Ilford Lane (A123) Ilford Hill Ilford, Hanault Street High Road (A118) Seven Kings Station Goodmayes Chadwell Heath London Road (A118) Romford Market Romford Station Queen’s Hospital
Some time ago, I heard on here that residents (most likely elderly) along the 86 have wanted it to get extended to Queen’s Hospital, but a route that frequent probably will have standing issues at the hospital, so I proposed another route to run alongside the 86 from Ilford to Romford, going further to the hospital.
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Dec 25, 2023 20:03:34 GMT
New Route EL4: Barking - Romford, Queen’s Hospital. Via: Fanshawe Road (A123) Ilford Lane (A123) Ilford Hill Ilford, Hanault Street High Road (A118) Seven Kings Station Goodmayes Chadwell Heath London Road (A118) Romford Market Romford Station Queen’s Hospital Some time ago, I heard on here that residents (most likely elderly) along the 86 have wanted it to get extended to Queen’s Hospital, but a route that frequent probably will have standing issues at the hospital, so I proposed another route to run alongside the 86 from Ilford to Romford, going further to the hospital. How frequently would it run?
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Post by Trafalgax on Dec 25, 2023 20:07:46 GMT
New Route EL4: Barking - Romford, Queen’s Hospital. Via: Fanshawe Road (A123) Ilford Lane (A123) Ilford Hill Ilford, Hanault Street High Road (A118) Seven Kings Station Goodmayes Chadwell Heath London Road (A118) Romford Market Romford Station Queen’s Hospital Some time ago, I heard on here that residents (most likely elderly) along the 86 have wanted it to get extended to Queen’s Hospital, but a route that frequent probably will have standing issues at the hospital, so I proposed another route to run alongside the 86 from Ilford to Romford, going further to the hospital. How frequently would it run? Definitely not as much as the 86, probably around 10 to 12 minutes.
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Post by britishguy54 on Dec 25, 2023 21:01:13 GMT
New Route EL4: Barking - Romford, Queen’s Hospital. Via: Fanshawe Road (A123) Ilford Lane (A123) Ilford Hill Ilford, Hanault Street High Road (A118) Seven Kings Station Goodmayes Chadwell Heath London Road (A118) Romford Market Romford Station Queen’s Hospital Some time ago, I heard on here that residents (most likely elderly) along the 86 have wanted it to get extended to Queen’s Hospital, but a route that frequent probably will have standing issues at the hospital, so I proposed another route to run alongside the 86 from Ilford to Romford, going further to the hospital. It seems to run almost too closely to the 86… I understand the route needs some extra help, but a route this close is a bit much. Romford also has solid alternative connections to Ilford, such as 128 and 296. The route could still go between Romford and Barking, but could skip Ilford, going via South Park Drive, and Seven Kings Road (or its parallel roads). The EL numbers are also only really used for routes in Barking Riverside, not Barking as a whole.
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Post by Trafalgax on Dec 25, 2023 21:14:43 GMT
New Route EL4: Barking - Romford, Queen’s Hospital. Via: Fanshawe Road (A123) Ilford Lane (A123) Ilford Hill Ilford, Hanault Street High Road (A118) Seven Kings Station Goodmayes Chadwell Heath London Road (A118) Romford Market Romford Station Queen’s Hospital Some time ago, I heard on here that residents (most likely elderly) along the 86 have wanted it to get extended to Queen’s Hospital, but a route that frequent probably will have standing issues at the hospital, so I proposed another route to run alongside the 86 from Ilford to Romford, going further to the hospital. It seems to run almost too closely to the 86… I understand the route needs some extra help, but a route this close is a bit much. Romford also has solid alternative connections to Ilford, such as 128 and 296. The route could still go between Romford and Barking, but could skip Ilford, going via South Park Drive, and Seven Kings Road (or its parallel roads). The EL numbers are also only really used for routes in Barking Riverside, not Barking as a whole. That’s the whole point, to run alongside the 86 section so that the residents have a connect to the hospital like they wanted.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 26, 2023 15:21:07 GMT
It seems to run almost too closely to the 86… I understand the route needs some extra help, but a route this close is a bit much. Romford also has solid alternative connections to Ilford, such as 128 and 296. The route could still go between Romford and Barking, but could skip Ilford, going via South Park Drive, and Seven Kings Road (or its parallel roads). The EL numbers are also only really used for routes in Barking Riverside, not Barking as a whole. That’s the whole point, to run alongside the 86 section so that the residents have a connect to the hospital like they wanted. I don't remember residents crying out from the 86 route for a link to Queens, the 128 is walking distance from most of the 86 route and goes to the Hospital. There's no reason at all for the route to go to Barking as the 5 goes to Queens and the nearest hospital to Barking is Newham and not Queens.
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Post by mkay315 on Dec 26, 2023 15:25:45 GMT
That’s the whole point, to run alongside the 86 section so that the residents have a connect to the hospital like they wanted. I don't remember residents crying out from the 86 route for a link to Queens, the 128 is walking distance from most of the 86 route and goes to the Hospital. There's no reason at all for the route to go to Barking as the 5 goes to Queens and the nearest hospital to Barking is Newham and not Queens. I mean they also have King George Hospital with the EL3 taking them there as well
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Post by Trafalgax on Dec 26, 2023 15:44:36 GMT
That’s the whole point, to run alongside the 86 section so that the residents have a connect to the hospital like they wanted. I don't remember residents crying out from the 86 route for a link to Queens, the 128 is walking distance from most of the 86 route and goes to the Hospital. There's no reason at all for the route to go to Barking as the 5 goes to Queens and the nearest hospital to Barking is Newham and not Queens. Well, I do. It was mentioned on one of the threads on here some time ago, I can't remember which one. Not all routes are made for end-to-end purposes, with that logic, the 253 should be withdrawn because the 30 passes both Hackney Central and Euston.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 26, 2023 17:07:18 GMT
I don't remember residents crying out from the 86 route for a link to Queens, the 128 is walking distance from most of the 86 route and goes to the Hospital. There's no reason at all for the route to go to Barking as the 5 goes to Queens and the nearest hospital to Barking is Newham and not Queens. Well, I do. It was mentioned on one of the threads on here some time ago, I can't remember which one. Not all routes are made for end-to-end purposes, with that logic, the 253 should be withdrawn because the 30 passes both Hackney Central and Euston. But this route is surely intended for end to end that purpose? The only difference to the 86 here is the bit to Barking, which has the 5? The 86s line of route is near the 128s line of route and the hopper fare means people can always just take one of many buses from Romford Station.
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Post by Trafalgax on Dec 26, 2023 18:19:30 GMT
Well, I do. It was mentioned on one of the threads on here some time ago, I can't remember which one. Not all routes are made for end-to-end purposes, with that logic, the 253 should be withdrawn because the 30 passes both Hackney Central and Euston. But this route is surely intended for end to end that purpose? The only difference to the 86 here is the bit to Barking, which has the 5? The 86s line of route is near the 128s line of route and the hopper fare means people can always just take one of many buses from Romford Station. It isn't intended for end-to-end purposes. I've already mentioned the purpose of it in my first comment. Particularly, only Ilford to Goodmayes are within walking distance of the 128, and while it's true that you can just take the 86 to Romford Station and get another one to the hospital, in the perspective of a non-enthusiastic, would you rather switch over buses or take one bus straight there?
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