|
|
Post by bk10mfe on Feb 9, 2024 14:21:17 GMT
What's the point in this? The 83 changes have been successful so far and the 83 was far too long in its original form. The reason I’m considering it now is because since SL10 now exists, it actually does support the 83 between Hendon Central Station and Kingsbury Green/Kingsbury Road so 83 is likely to move faster between those sections unless there is congestion at certain areas. The SL10 doesn’t really help with the 83 that much as they have largely very different links. Hanger Lane & Wembley are the worst traffic hotspots that the 83 would run into. Additionally you’re leaving the Windmill Lane area unserved if you went through with these changes. |
|
|
|
Post by twobellstogo on Feb 9, 2024 16:09:33 GMT
This policy really needs to be revisited by TfL - it is incredibly insular and short-sighted. I could reel off a whole list of services/corridors that should be TfL but are not - the 3 from Sevenoaks to Orpington, the 420 from Redhill to Sutton, the A307 Portsmouth Road direct run from Kingston to Esher and branches beyond where necessary, the 84B from Barnet to Potters Bar, taking the 375 on to Ongar… I completely agree with you, the Greater London shouldn't be a barrier to providing important bus connections. Realistically, all of these sections of non-TfL routes should be incorporated into the TfL bus network: 3 Orpington to Sevenoaks 3 Uxbridge to Slough 84B Barnet to Potters Bar 409 Selsdon to Caterham on the Hill 420 Sutton to Redhill 442 Heathrow T5 to Staines 458 Kingston to Staines 477 Orpington to Bluewater 515 Kingston to Esher (via Thames Ditton and Lower Green) 555 Heathrow Central/Hatton Cross to Walton-on-Thames E16 Worcester Park to Epsom Some route extensions are also needed where routes unnecessarily terminate due to the Greater London border, such as extending the 116 from Ashford Hospital to Staines, the 293 from Epsom Hospital to Leatherhead, the 466 from Caterham-on-the-Hill to Caterham station, and extending all journeys on the 166 to Epsom Hospital.
Some of these just wouldn’t work as TfL services even in times of plenty, despite my support for more out county TfL buses. 442 only tickles the TfL area as it is, and this is undoubtedly a Surrey responsibility. I don’t think the whole of the 458 is a TfL thing really - not withstanding my thought that a direct Kingston - Portsmouth Road - Esher service would fit. Maybe the northern half of the 715 would be better - there is very little cross Cobham traffic in my considerable experience. There is currently no room for another Esher terminator. I’d be reluctant to split the 515. Maybe a K6 Kingston - Thames Ditton - Hampton Court might be a nice thing. 555 - much the same as 442 - a definite Surrey route. No real need for a 466 extension, and I’m not sure there’s a need for the 116 to extend either - Ashford to Staines is already well catered for. There’s hardly a soul on the current services from Epsom to Leatherhead, and I doubt TfL-ising the service will make a whole lot of difference. 477 - really only as far as Swanley. Don’t know enough about the route to say whether a split is sensible. 3 - Uxbridge to Slough - using that logic means that the Chiltern Hundreds should be TfL too, and no-one would suggest that’s a good idea. I’ll give you the Kent 3, 84B, 409 and 420 though 😂 |
|
|
|
Post by bk10mfe on Feb 9, 2024 19:32:13 GMT
Some proposed changes around the Hendon/Colindale/Brent Cross areas:
New route 402: Would run between St Raphael’s & Colindale Superstores via 232 to Brent Cross Shopping Centre, 324 up to the end of Colindeep lane, The Hyde & Capitol Way. Would run at a frequency of 4bph using single deckers. Takes a similar route to the old mobility route 972 which was a very cool route in my opinion.
232: Withdrawn between Brent Cross Shopping Centre & St Raphael’s, converted to double deck operation.
324: Withdrawn between Colindeep Lane & Brent Cross Tesco. Extended to Brent Cross West via Edgware Road & Geron Way.
143: Extended to Brent Cross Tesco to replace the 324.
|
|
|
|
Post by londonbuses2018 on Feb 9, 2024 21:27:38 GMT
I agree with you about extending 240 to Hampstead or even Camden Town, but Golders Green to Stanmore could potentially be a decent link. I don’t think Golders Green-Stanmore is a link that’s really needed. If people wanted that link they could just get 102/210 to Brent Cross followed by either 142 or 324 to Stanmore. When Colindale shuts until 2025 for station improvements TFL are providing a bus link from Golders Green to Stanmore, also the entire line would shut for a week after easter and in the summer running from Golders Green to Edgware. metro.co.uk/2024/01/04/parts-northern-line-will-close-2024-20063526/ |
|
|
|
Post by bk10mfe on Feb 9, 2024 21:47:07 GMT
I don’t think Golders Green-Stanmore is a link that’s really needed. If people wanted that link they could just get 102/210 to Brent Cross followed by either 142 or 324 to Stanmore. When Colindale shuts until 2025 for station improvements TFL are providing a bus link from Golders Green to Stanmore, also the entire line would shut for a week after easter and in the summer running from Golders Green to Edgware. metro.co.uk/2024/01/04/parts-northern-line-will-close-2024-20063526/I think the bus service will only run between Golders Green & Edgware, presumably via the N5’s routing. |
|
|
|
Post by sdaniel on Feb 9, 2024 22:12:30 GMT
I think the bus service will only run between Golders Green & Edgware, presumably via the N5’s routing. The N5 doesn’t serve Brent Cross Station. |
|
|
|
Post by sdaniel on Feb 9, 2024 22:14:00 GMT
Some proposed changes around the Hendon/Colindale/Brent Cross areas: New route 402: Would run between St Raphael’s & Colindale Superstores via 232 to Brent Cross Shopping Centre, 324 up to the end of Colindeep lane, The Hyde & Capitol Way. Would run at a frequency of 4bph using single deckers. Takes a similar route to the old mobility route 972 which was a very cool route in my opinion. 232: Withdrawn between Brent Cross Shopping Centre & St Raphael’s, converted to double deck operation. 324: Withdrawn between Colindeep Lane & Brent Cross Tesco. Extended to Brent Cross West via Edgware Road & Geron Way. 143: Extended to Brent Cross Tesco to replace the 324. 232 can still be a double decker if it goes to Brent Park. But it cannot go to St Raphael’s as a double decker. |
|
|
|
Post by bk10mfe on Feb 9, 2024 22:23:40 GMT
I think the bus service will only run between Golders Green & Edgware, presumably via the N5’s routing. The N5 doesn’t serve Brent Cross Station. The stops Highfields Ave & Limes Ave are in walking distance from Brent Cross Station. |
|
|
|
Post by bk10mfe on Feb 9, 2024 22:25:43 GMT
Some proposed changes around the Hendon/Colindale/Brent Cross areas: New route 402: Would run between St Raphael’s & Colindale Superstores via 232 to Brent Cross Shopping Centre, 324 up to the end of Colindeep lane, The Hyde & Capitol Way. Would run at a frequency of 4bph using single deckers. Takes a similar route to the old mobility route 972 which was a very cool route in my opinion. 232: Withdrawn between Brent Cross Shopping Centre & St Raphael’s, converted to double deck operation. 324: Withdrawn between Colindeep Lane & Brent Cross Tesco. Extended to Brent Cross West via Edgware Road & Geron Way. 143: Extended to Brent Cross Tesco to replace the 324. 232 can still be a double decker if it goes to Brent Park. But it cannot go to St Raphael’s as a double decker. Yes but there isn’t anywhere to stand the 232 at Brent Park as the 16/92 take up all the available space & neither route can viably be extended or removed from that area. |
|
|
|
Post by ADH45258 on Feb 10, 2024 1:57:24 GMT
232 can still be a double decker if it goes to Brent Park. But it cannot go to St Raphael’s as a double decker. Yes but there isn’t anywhere to stand the 232 at Brent Park as the 16/92 take up all the available space & neither route can viably be extended or removed from that area. I think the best option would have been to split the 112/232 to form a third route instead of the 112's extension to Finchley. This would increase capacity overall, and help improve reliability when traffic along the North Circular is particularly bad. So the 112 would revert to operating between Brent Cross and Ealing Broadway, and converted to DDs if possible. And the 232 cut back to Brent Cross too, maybe terminating at Brent Cross West Station, and also converting to DDs. Then alongside introduce a new SD route between St Raphaels and North Finchley. |
|
|
|
Post by ADH45258 on Feb 10, 2024 2:00:06 GMT
I think the bus service will only run between Golders Green & Edgware, presumably via the N5’s routing. The N5 doesn’t serve Brent Cross Station. Could probably go more directly than the N5 anyway, looping round the 125 stand to serve Colindale Station, then via the 186 to Hendon Central and Brent Cross Flyover, and following the 210 via Brent Cross Station to Golders Green? |
|
|
|
Post by bk10mfe on Feb 10, 2024 7:41:08 GMT
Yes but there isn’t anywhere to stand the 232 at Brent Park as the 16/92 take up all the available space & neither route can viably be extended or removed from that area. I think the best option would have been to split the 112/232 to form a third route instead of the 112's extension to Finchley. This would increase capacity overall, and help improve reliability when traffic along the North Circular is particularly bad. So the 112 would revert to operating between Brent Cross and Ealing Broadway, and converted to DDs if possible. And the 232 cut back to Brent Cross too, maybe terminating at Brent Cross West Station, and also converting to DDs. Then alongside introduce a new SD route between St Raphaels and North Finchley. To be fair the 232’s rerouting in the Harringay Heartlands may further prevent it from being decked. |
|
|
|
Post by evergreenadam on Feb 10, 2024 9:31:43 GMT
This policy really needs to be revisited by TfL - it is incredibly insular and short-sighted. I could reel off a whole list of services/corridors that should be TfL but are not - the 3 from Sevenoaks to Orpington, the 420 from Redhill to Sutton, the A307 Portsmouth Road direct run from Kingston to Esher and branches beyond where necessary, the 84B from Barnet to Potters Bar, taking the 375 on to Ongar… I completely agree with you, the Greater London shouldn't be a barrier to providing important bus connections. Realistically, all of these sections of non-TfL routes should be incorporated into the TfL bus network:
3 Orpington to Sevenoaks 3 Uxbridge to Slough 84B Barnet to Potters Bar 409 Selsdon to Caterham on the Hill 420 Sutton to Redhill 442 Heathrow T5 to Staines 458 Kingston to Staines 477 Orpington to Bluewater 515 Kingston to Esher (via Thames Ditton and Lower Green) 555 Heathrow Central/Hatton Cross to Walton-on-Thames E16 Worcester Park to Epsom
Some route extensions are also needed where routes unnecessarily terminate due to the Greater London border, such as extending the 116 from Ashford Hospital to Staines, the 293 from Epsom Hospital to Leatherhead, the 466 from Caterham-on-the-Hill to Caterham station, and extending all journeys on the 166 to Epsom Hospital.
Have always thought the withdrawal of the 116 between Ashford Hospital and Staines was a mistake, providing a direct bus service on the Staines Road corridor would be a non brainer to attract car drivers back onto the bus. The current indirect routeings of the 117 and 203 between Hounslow and Staines are not attractive if you could drive instead. That said I’m not sure there would be enough demand to support a direct service to Staines running x12mins with double deckers, the passenger subsidy would be very high. A better use of the money would be to increase both the 117 and 203 to x15mins. The 117 certainly deserves it at the Hounslow end given that it cannot be decked. |
|
|
|
Post by bk10mfe on Feb 10, 2024 9:42:03 GMT
I completely agree with you, the Greater London shouldn't be a barrier to providing important bus connections. Realistically, all of these sections of non-TfL routes should be incorporated into the TfL bus network:
3 Orpington to Sevenoaks 3 Uxbridge to Slough 84B Barnet to Potters Bar 409 Selsdon to Caterham on the Hill 420 Sutton to Redhill 442 Heathrow T5 to Staines 458 Kingston to Staines 477 Orpington to Bluewater 515 Kingston to Esher (via Thames Ditton and Lower Green) 555 Heathrow Central/Hatton Cross to Walton-on-Thames E16 Worcester Park to Epsom
Some route extensions are also needed where routes unnecessarily terminate due to the Greater London border, such as extending the 116 from Ashford Hospital to Staines, the 293 from Epsom Hospital to Leatherhead, the 466 from Caterham-on-the-Hill to Caterham station, and extending all journeys on the 166 to Epsom Hospital.
Have always thought the withdrawal of the 116 between Ashford Hospital and Staines was a mistake, providing a direct bus service on the Staines Road corridor would be a non brainer to attract car drivers back onto the bus. The current indirect routeings of the 117 and 203 between Hounslow and Staines are not attractive if you could drive instead. That said I’m not sure there would be enough demand to support a direct service to Staines running x12mins with double deckers, the passenger subsidy would be very high. A better use of the money would be to increase both the 117 and 203 to x15mins. The 117 certainly deserves it at the Hounslow end given that it cannot be decked. Could it be viable to have the 117 & 235 swap termini to enable the 117 to become decked? You could have the 117 terminate at County Court as the Great West Quarter isn't well used anyway. |
|
|
|
Post by evergreenadam on Feb 10, 2024 10:18:21 GMT
Have always thought the withdrawal of the 116 between Ashford Hospital and Staines was a mistake, providing a direct bus service on the Staines Road corridor would be a non brainer to attract car drivers back onto the bus. The current indirect routeings of the 117 and 203 between Hounslow and Staines are not attractive if you could drive instead. That said I’m not sure there would be enough demand to support a direct service to Staines running x12mins with double deckers, the passenger subsidy would be very high. A better use of the money would be to increase both the 117 and 203 to x15mins. The 117 certainly deserves it at the Hounslow end given that it cannot be decked. Could it be viable to have the 117 & 235 swap termini to enable the 117 to become decked? You could have the 117 terminate at County Court as the Great West Quarter isn't well used anyway. There’s absolutely no way the bus service to Great West Quarter will be withdrawn, the reasons why have been discussed on other threads. The section between the County Court and Great West Quarter gets a reasonable following and has its purpose, it also relieves the 237 which could not cope on its own at this point. |
|
