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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Feb 29, 2024 19:22:45 GMT
I'm still not convinced by TFL's current proposals for the Silvertown Tunnel. I can't see the SL4 being significantly well used, particularly with such a high frequency, since it avoids some useful destinations along the non-stop section. Maybe there will be some demand in the peaks for travel to/from Canary Wharf, but perhaps not so much in the off-peak. Even then, I suspect many passengers around Blackheath, Lee and Grove Park would still choose to take a bus/train to Lewisham, then the DLR to Canary Wharf. The extended 129 may provide some useful links, but the frequency increase does seem excessive. I think it would be a much better use of resources to keep the 129 at around every 10-15 minutes, and introduce one or two other routes alongside through the tunnel, which combined would cover a much wider range of destinations across the river. Really though, the priority with the tunnel should be to work with the established interchange hubs at both North Greenwich and Canning Town, allowing passengers from various places to change onto a cross-river connection. This would include a frequent Canary Wharf to North Greenwich service (could also continue onwards to Crossharbour and Charlton), allowing passengers to easily access Canary Wharf from various areas in SE London. And the SL4's links south of Blackheath could alternatively be covered by extending the 335 to Grove Park. Though if an express route needs to go through the tunnel, maybe something along the 108 corridor might be more useful, as an already established busy route? The 108 could even then split into two routes, allowing passengers making shorter journey to have a more reliable service - with the new limited stop route maintaining cross-river links? One route could operate from North Greenwich to Lewisham, then continue further south to link to places like Catford, without having to make the 202 any longer? Overall, the combined network of routes through both the Blackwall and Silvertown tunnels should ideally all serve North Greenwich to the south (or at least most of them), and to the north also cover the Barking Road corridor and the Isle of Dogs, in addition to the areas served by the 108/129. I also think it's important that Canary Wharf, Canning Town and North Greenwich all have a direct bus service between each of them. Canary Wharf to Canning Town could be covered by just a short extension of the D3? Perhaps a route such as the 241 could be a decent candidate to extend across the Silvertown Tunnel towards North Greenwich. I don’t know if messing with the 304 could be an alternative. I'd probably leave the 304 alone, but can certainly get behind the 241 being sent somewhere south, or even the 330.
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Post by bk10mfe on Feb 29, 2024 19:39:32 GMT
Perhaps a route such as the 241 could be a decent candidate to extend across the Silvertown Tunnel towards North Greenwich. I don’t know if messing with the 304 could be an alternative. I'd probably leave the 304 alone, but can certainly get behind the 241 being sent somewhere south, or even the 330. I think the 330 would be the most appropriate option to extend through the tunnel as it runs right next to it & serves Canning Town. Perhaps it could run to Greenwich Cutty Sark, after North Greenwich it would run on the 188’s route, since the 188 has been proposed to be rerouted. I would additionally extend either the 309 or 323 to Pontoon Dock in place of the 330.
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Post by WH241 on Feb 29, 2024 20:23:34 GMT
I'd probably leave the 304 alone, but can certainly get behind the 241 being sent somewhere south, or even the 330. I think the 330 would be the most appropriate option to extend through the tunnel as it runs right next to it & serves Canning Town. Perhaps it could run to Greenwich Cutty Sark, after North Greenwich it would run on the 188’s route, since the 188 has been proposed to be rerouted. I would additionally extend either the 309 or 323 to Pontoon Dock in place of the 330. I know I can be a sarcastic so and so but are we basically saying every bus route is broken in London? I would find it slightly amusing if TfL ever took an idea proposed here forward then two weeks later there would be suggestions here about changing said route to create "new links". Now back on topic both the 241 and 330 are pretty local routes and really don't see what benefit they would have being extended when you have the 129 already being extended and serving Silvertown Way and the local area. No one from say Stratford would travel via Plaistow, Custom House then onwards via the tunnel. The only slight benefit the 330 has is it would link Canning Town station with the tunnel.
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Post by twobellstogo on Feb 29, 2024 20:56:10 GMT
I think the 330 would be the most appropriate option to extend through the tunnel as it runs right next to it & serves Canning Town. Perhaps it could run to Greenwich Cutty Sark, after North Greenwich it would run on the 188’s route, since the 188 has been proposed to be rerouted. I would additionally extend either the 309 or 323 to Pontoon Dock in place of the 330. I know I can be a sarcastic so and so but are we basically saying every bus route is broken in London? I would find it slightly amusing if TfL ever took an idea proposed here forward then two weeks later there would be suggestions here about changing said route to create "new links". Now back on topic both the 241 and 330 are pretty local routes and really don't see what benefit they would have being extended when you have the 129 already being extended and serving Silvertown Way and the local area. No one from say Stratford would travel via Plaistow, Custom House then onwards via the tunnel. The only slight benefit the 330 has is it would link Canning Town station with the tunnel. I sometimes use the 241 from Stratford to connect with eastbound Liz line trains to Abbey Wood, but I agree with you, I don’t see that the 241 has any need to head to Silvertown Tunnel and beyond. If a route with a decent amount of East London running is extended, I wonder about something like the 304, that serves areas with slightly more complications about getting south of the river.
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Post by bk10mfe on Feb 29, 2024 21:33:11 GMT
I know I can be a sarcastic so and so but are we basically saying every bus route is broken in London? I would find it slightly amusing if TfL ever took an idea proposed here forward then two weeks later there would be suggestions here about changing said route to create "new links". Now back on topic both the 241 and 330 are pretty local routes and really don't see what benefit they would have being extended when you have the 129 already being extended and serving Silvertown Way and the local area. No one from say Stratford would travel via Plaistow, Custom House then onwards via the tunnel. The only slight benefit the 330 has is it would link Canning Town station with the tunnel. I sometimes use the 241 from Stratford to connect with eastbound Liz line trains to Abbey Wood, but I agree with you, I don’t see that the 241 has any need to head to Silvertown Tunnel and beyond. If a route with a decent amount of East London running is extended, I wonder about something like the 304, that serves areas with slightly more complications about getting south of the river. I also agree with not sending the 241 south of the river as it doesn’t run to Canning Town & Stratford has enough links to North Greenwich with the Jubilee line & 108. I also don’t think the 304 should be sent south of the river due to the awful traffic in East Ham. The 330 is ideal for this as it serves Canning Town as previously mentioned & is the most direct option available, with the Silvertown Way-Pontoon Dock section being easily replaceable. I believe the 241 may be extended in the future on the Stratford end to the Here East developments anyway.
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Post by B9TL205 on Feb 29, 2024 21:42:41 GMT
I think Crystal Palace-North Greenwich on the 202 might just about work. Bear in mind the Silvertown tunnel opening will relieve some of the traffic from the Blackwall tunnel. Plus it would create a plethora of new links from North Greenwich towards Lee & Catford, in the past it has been suggested the 129 be extended to Catford which would have been more viable if it wasn’t being extended through the tunnel as well. Even Blackheath Village needs some support towards North Greenwich due how both busy & unreliable the 108 is I'm still not convinced by TFL's current proposals for the Silvertown Tunnel. I can't see the SL4 being significantly well used, particularly with such a high frequency, since it avoids some useful destinations along the non-stop section. Maybe there will be some demand in the peaks for travel to/from Canary Wharf, but perhaps not so much in the off-peak. Even then, I suspect many passengers around Blackheath, Lee and Grove Park would still choose to take a bus/train to Lewisham, then the DLR to Canary Wharf. The extended 129 may provide some useful links, but the frequency increase does seem excessive. I think it would be a much better use of resources to keep the 129 at around every 10-15 minutes, and introduce one or two other routes alongside through the tunnel, which combined would cover a much wider range of destinations across the river. Really though, the priority with the tunnel should be to work with the established interchange hubs at both North Greenwich and Canning Town, allowing passengers from various places to change onto a cross-river connection. This would include a frequent Canary Wharf to North Greenwich service (could also continue onwards to Crossharbour and Charlton), allowing passengers to easily access Canary Wharf from various areas in SE London. And the SL4's links south of Blackheath could alternatively be covered by extending the 335 to Grove Park. Though if an express route needs to go through the tunnel, maybe something along the 108 corridor might be more useful, as an already established busy route? The 108 could even then split into two routes, allowing passengers making shorter journey to have a more reliable service - with the new limited stop route maintaining cross-river links? One route could operate from North Greenwich to Lewisham, then continue further south to link to places like Catford, without having to make the 202 any longer? Overall, the combined network of routes through both the Blackwall and Silvertown tunnels should ideally all serve North Greenwich to the south (or at least most of them), and to the north also cover the Barking Road corridor and the Isle of Dogs, in addition to the areas served by the 108/129. I also think it's important that Canary Wharf, Canning Town and North Greenwich all have a direct bus service between each of them. Canary Wharf to Canning Town could be covered by just a short extension of the D3? It really doesn't. You've mentioned the route being busy, that is true - you'd be inconveniencing passengers who use the service from Poplar towards the Peninsula IKEA.
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Post by bk10mfe on Mar 3, 2024 8:16:23 GMT
Changes to route 150 & new route 342: 150: Withdrawn between Ilford Hainault St & Becontree Heath. 342: New route running between Ilford & Upminster, standing on Roden St near the Sainsbury’s in Ilford & Upminster Station forecourt in Upminster (346 is being moved out so stand space is now free there). Would run via 128 up to stop Norwood Ave, then 248 to Upminster Station. 4bph DD route. Provides a new direct route between Ilford & Becontree Heath to Hornchurch & Upminster.
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Post by ADH45258 on Mar 4, 2024 19:34:33 GMT
Idea to rework the Superloop network into two loops around the suburbs, providing more orbital links:
Outer Loop - adapted from existing SL routes.
SL3/SL5/SL7 - Unchanged.
SL9 - Extended from Harrow to Edgware, via the 114 to Queensbury Circle, then Taunton Way and Camrose Avenue.
SL10 & SL1 - Withdrawn in the current form.
SL1 - Alternative route introduced between Edgware and Chingford, via the 292/384 to Stirling Corner, 107 to Barnet, 307 to Enfield and 313 to Chingford.
SL2 - Revised to operate between Chingford and Barking Riverside, roughly via the 179 then EL1. Option to introduce a passenger ferry across the river at Barking Riverside, connecting to the SL3 at Thamesmead.
Inner Loop - Lots of ways this could be split up into individual routes, but in total would cover the following route, using the Silvertown Tunnel to cross the river:
From North Greenwich: 132 to Blackheath (Shooters Hill Road) 54 to Catford 181 to Lower Sydenham 450 to Crystal Palace (omitting the Kingswood loop) 417 to Crown Point 249 to Streatham 57 to Wimbledon 93 to Putney Heath 493 to Richmond 65 to Ealing Broadway 483 to Wembley 182 to Neasden 112 to Brent Cross 186 to Hendon Central SL10 to Finchley Central (Gravel Hill) N20 to East Finchley 102 to Muswell Hill 144 to Turnpike Lane 41 or 230 to Tottenham Hale 230 to Walthamstow Central 69 to Leyton 158 to Stratford 241 to Custom House and through the Silvertown Tunnel back to North Greenwich
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Post by greenboy on Mar 4, 2024 19:57:36 GMT
Idea to rework the Superloop network into two loops around the suburbs, providing more orbital links: Outer Loop - adapted from existing SL routes.SL3/SL5/SL7 - Unchanged. SL9 - Extended from Harrow to Edgware, via the 114 to Queensbury Circle, then Taunton Way and Camrose Avenue. SL10 & SL1 - Withdrawn in the current form. SL1 - Alternative route introduced between Edgware and Chingford, via the 292/384 to Stirling Corner, 107 to Barnet, 307 to Enfield and 313 to Chingford. SL2 - Revised to operate between Chingford and Barking Riverside, roughly via the 179 then EL1. Option to introduce a passenger ferry across the river at Barking Riverside, connecting to the SL3 at Thamesmead. Inner Loop - Lots of ways this could be split up into individual routes, but in total would cover the following route, using the Silvertown Tunnel to cross the river:
From North Greenwich: 132 to Blackheath (Shooters Hill Road) 54 to Catford 181 to Lower Sydenham 450 to Crystal Palace (omitting the Kingswood loop) 417 to Crown Point 249 to Streatham 57 to Wimbledon 93 to Putney Heath 493 to Richmond 65 to Ealing Broadway 483 to Wembley 182 to Neasden 112 to Brent Cross 186 to Hendon Central SL10 to Finchley Central (Gravel Hill) N20 to East Finchley 102 to Muswell Hill 144 to Turnpike Lane 41 or 230 to Tottenham Hale 230 to Walthamstow Central 69 to Leyton 158 to Stratford 241 to Custom House and through the Silvertown Tunnel back to North Greenwich North Greenwich to Crystal Palace sounds plausible but likely to take a lot of passengers from the 54 and 202.
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Post by bk10mfe on Mar 4, 2024 20:35:20 GMT
Idea to rework the Superloop network into two loops around the suburbs, providing more orbital links: Outer Loop - adapted from existing SL routes.SL3/SL5/SL7 - Unchanged. SL9 - Extended from Harrow to Edgware, via the 114 to Queensbury Circle, then Taunton Way and Camrose Avenue. SL10 & SL1 - Withdrawn in the current form. SL1 - Alternative route introduced between Edgware and Chingford, via the 292/384 to Stirling Corner, 107 to Barnet, 307 to Enfield and 313 to Chingford. SL2 - Revised to operate between Chingford and Barking Riverside, roughly via the 179 then EL1. Option to introduce a passenger ferry across the river at Barking Riverside, connecting to the SL3 at Thamesmead. Inner Loop - Lots of ways this could be split up into individual routes, but in total would cover the following route, using the Silvertown Tunnel to cross the river:
From North Greenwich: 132 to Blackheath (Shooters Hill Road) 54 to Catford 181 to Lower Sydenham 450 to Crystal Palace (omitting the Kingswood loop) 417 to Crown Point 249 to Streatham 57 to Wimbledon 93 to Putney Heath 493 to Richmond 65 to Ealing Broadway 483 to Wembley 182 to Neasden 112 to Brent Cross 186 to Hendon Central SL10 to Finchley Central (Gravel Hill) N20 to East Finchley 102 to Muswell Hill 144 to Turnpike Lane 41 or 230 to Tottenham Hale 230 to Walthamstow Central 69 to Leyton 158 to Stratford 241 to Custom House and through the Silvertown Tunnel back to North Greenwich North Greenwich to Crystal Palace sounds plausible but likely to take a lot of passengers from the 54 and 202. Perhaps the proposed North Greenwich-Crystal Palace route could run via the 132 to Blackheath as proposed, the 53 to New Cross (I think the 53 would benefit from having this new route running alongside it), 171/172 to Honor Oak & 122 to Crystal Palace (could also go via the 202’s routing instead after Upper Sydneham). This makes it a different enough route from the 54/202 & would take fewer passengers from those routes.
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Post by ADH45258 on Mar 4, 2024 22:24:28 GMT
Idea to rework the Superloop network into two loops around the suburbs, providing more orbital links: Inner Loop - Lots of ways this could be split up into individual routes, but in total would cover the following route, using the Silvertown Tunnel to cross the river:
From North Greenwich: 132 to Blackheath (Shooters Hill Road) 54 to Catford 181 to Lower Sydenham 450 to Crystal Palace (omitting the Kingswood loop) 417 to Crown Point 249 to Streatham 57 to Wimbledon 93 to Putney Heath 493 to Richmond 65 to Ealing Broadway 483 to Wembley 182 to Neasden 112 to Brent Cross 186 to Hendon Central SL10 to Finchley Central (Gravel Hill) N20 to East Finchley 102 to Muswell Hill 144 to Turnpike Lane 41 or 230 to Tottenham Hale 230 to Walthamstow Central 69 to Leyton 158 to Stratford 241 to Custom House and through the Silvertown Tunnel back to North Greenwich North Greenwich to Crystal Palace sounds plausible but likely to take a lot of passengers from the 54 and 202. North Greenwich wouldn't necessarily be a start/end point. Potentially you could have the route through the Silvertown Tunnel continue further south to Lewisham. Then the next route from Lewisham to Crystal Palace or Streatham.
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Post by vjaska on Mar 5, 2024 1:40:26 GMT
North Greenwich to Crystal Palace sounds plausible but likely to take a lot of passengers from the 54 and 202. North Greenwich wouldn't necessarily be a start/end point. Potentially you could have the route through the Silvertown Tunnel continue further south to Lewisham. Then the next route from Lewisham to Crystal Palace or Streatham. Lewisham to Streatham does not need to be accomplished via a Superloop route and the corridor beyond Tooting on the 57 is awful for traffic. There aren't too many other corridors left where you can suddenly implement extra Superloop without completely changing road layout's to implement the priority needed - the ones implemented work for the most part because majority of the corridors are quieter and/or the North Circular, even with it's issues, runs to a far better standard due to the numerous upgrades it got.
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Post by twobellstogo on Mar 5, 2024 7:32:56 GMT
North Greenwich wouldn't necessarily be a start/end point. Potentially you could have the route through the Silvertown Tunnel continue further south to Lewisham. Then the next route from Lewisham to Crystal Palace or Streatham. Lewisham to Streatham does not need to be accomplished via a Superloop route and the corridor beyond Tooting on the 57 is awful for traffic. There aren't too many other corridors left where you can suddenly implement extra Superloop without completely changing road layout's to implement the priority needed - the ones implemented work for the most part because majority of the corridors are quieter and/or the North Circular, even with it's issues, runs to a far better standard due to the numerous upgrades it got. Not my area, but the 66 corridor might be a possibility. Maybe Upminster - Hornchurch - Romford, then via the 66 to Leytonstone, but only stopping at Newbury Park and Gants Hill. Locals - feel free to say how silly I am!
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Post by greenboy on Mar 5, 2024 10:07:48 GMT
North Greenwich to Crystal Palace sounds plausible but likely to take a lot of passengers from the 54 and 202. North Greenwich wouldn't necessarily be a start/end point. Potentially you could have the route through the Silvertown Tunnel continue further south to Lewisham. Then the next route from Lewisham to Crystal Palace or Streatham. Lewisham to Streatham might be better via the South Circular from Catford although I wouldn't envisage any particularly fast journey times.
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Post by mkay315 on Mar 5, 2024 12:09:29 GMT
Lewisham to Streatham does not need to be accomplished via a Superloop route and the corridor beyond Tooting on the 57 is awful for traffic. There aren't too many other corridors left where you can suddenly implement extra Superloop without completely changing road layout's to implement the priority needed - the ones implemented work for the most part because majority of the corridors are quieter and/or the North Circular, even with it's issues, runs to a far better standard due to the numerous upgrades it got. Not my area, but the 66 corridor might be a possibility. Maybe Upminster - Hornchurch - Romford, then via the 66 to Leytonstone, but only stopping at Newbury Park and Gants Hill. Locals - feel free to say how silly I am! This might be a handy link especially with how the Central Line is like at the moment. I could go even one step further by maybe bringing it to Stratford City or International depending on if there is space. The only downside is when the A12 goes down. The tailbacks like the NCR and A13 can be pretty bad.
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