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Post by greenboy on Mar 12, 2024 22:05:08 GMT
If I'm understanding @adh45258 correctly the 244/291 would still operate between QEH and Woodlands Estate but by a different route and a higher frequency? It seems a reasonable suggestion to me unless I'm missing something? I might be wrong but I think trees in Broadwaters would also prevent double deckers on the 244? I'm not sure double deckers are the best option anyway, with many people making fairly short journeys I'm not sure many would go upstairs? With the combined 244/291 the problem is that the 291 will become useless - 291 is meant to be a shuttle from the hospital/Woolwich to Woodlands Estate- changing the route will only make things worse. Also, 291 already has a decent frequency anyway so increasing the frequency won't really make a difference. Yes with the 244 there are restrictions around Broadwaters but also low trees in Shooters Hill. Like I said before, it would benefit from deckers, but it "supposedly can't take them". So even if you wanted to reroute 291 around Shooters Hill, or 178 around Broadwaters, it just wouldn't work. I don't see how the 291 would become useless but yes if the 178 was extended through Broadwaters it would be restricted to single deckers. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Mar 12, 2024 22:20:03 GMT
With the combined 244/291 the problem is that the 291 will become useless - 291 is meant to be a shuttle from the hospital/Woolwich to Woodlands Estate- changing the route will only make things worse. Also, 291 already has a decent frequency anyway so increasing the frequency won't really make a difference. Yes with the 244 there are restrictions around Broadwaters but also low trees in Shooters Hill. Like I said before, it would benefit from deckers, but it "supposedly can't take them". So even if you wanted to reroute 291 around Shooters Hill, or 178 around Broadwaters, it just wouldn't work. I don't see how the 291 would become useless but yes if the 178 was extended through Broadwaters it would be restricted to single deckers. Could you trim the trees in the Broadwaters area specifically to enable deckers on the 178 to pass through? Or are there resident objections to DD’s in that area too. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Mar 12, 2024 22:48:10 GMT
Oh god. Is that the eastbound stop outside M&S Food? If it is, that’s a serious accident waiting to happen. It's the westbound stops opposite M&S. Almost as bad 😮 cheers, cl54. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Mar 12, 2024 22:50:00 GMT
With the combined 244/291 the problem is that the 291 will become useless - 291 is meant to be a shuttle from the hospital/Woolwich to Woodlands Estate- changing the route will only make things worse. Also, 291 already has a decent frequency anyway so increasing the frequency won't really make a difference. Yes with the 244 there are restrictions around Broadwaters but also low trees in Shooters Hill. Like I said before, it would benefit from deckers, but it "supposedly can't take them". So even if you wanted to reroute 291 around Shooters Hill, or 178 around Broadwaters, it just wouldn't work. I think as a general rule with routes that only get stand time on one end shouldn’t be extended or take a longer route. The 138, 291 & R70 are the only routes I’m aware of that do this, I would be interested to know if there are anymore. B13 is another. |
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Post by greenboy on Mar 13, 2024 14:22:59 GMT
I don't see how the 291 would become useless but yes if the 178 was extended through Broadwaters it would be restricted to single deckers. Could you trim the trees in the Broadwaters area specifically to enable deckers on the 178 to pass through? Or are there resident objections to DD’s in that area too. Unlikely I would think, it seems anything through Broadwaters would have to be single decker. |
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Post by londonbuses on Mar 13, 2024 19:20:03 GMT
Bexleyheath-Orpington changes
New route:
392 Bexleyheath to Orpington Station (3bph DD)
New route running via route B14 from Orpington Station to Crittals Corner, Revington Way, then route 492 from Ruxley Corner to Bexleyheath. Runs at 3bph using DDs (providing the B14/R11 route between St Mary Cray and Crittals Corner can take DDs). New stops added on Revington Way outside Foots Cray Tesco as a double run is not possible due to the banned right turn out of the Tesco.
Reasoning - Provides a direct, relatively fast connection between Orpington and Bexleyheath (and also has the added benefit of reinstating the direct connection between most of the R11 route and Foots Cray Tesco).
Other changes:
233 Eltham to Swanley (3bph SD)
Upgraded to longer buses (partially to account for the fact it becomes the only route between Ruxley and Sidcup).
269 Bexleyheath to Bromley North (5bph DD)
Withdrawn between Bexleyheath Library and Bexleyheath Town Centre as was consulted on previously. PVR reduced from 13 to 12.
492 Bexleyheath to Bluewater (3bph DD)
Withdrawn between Bexleyheath Town Centre and Sidcup station. Frequency increased from 2bph to 3bph, PVR remains at 6 but crosslink with 401 removed. Sunday morning service added.
B14 Bexleyheath Bus Garage to Queen Mary's Hospital (3bph SD)
Withdrawn between Queen Mary's Hospital and Orpington. Diverted back to Bexleyheath Clock Tower, and then up to BX to terminate and stand. Frequency increased from 2bph to 3bph, PVR remains at 6 (5 daytime + 1 DD school extra). Sunday morning and evening service added.
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Post by bk10mfe on Mar 13, 2024 19:36:49 GMT
Bexleyheath-Orpington changes New route: 392 Bexleyheath to Orpington Station (3bph DD) New route running via route B14 from Orpington Station to Crittals Corner, Revington Way, then route 492 from Ruxley Corner to Bexleyheath. Runs at 3bph using DDs (providing the B14/R11 route between St Mary Cray and Crittals Corner can take DDs). New stops added on Revington Way outside Foots Cray Tesco as a double run is not possible due to the banned right turn out of the Tesco. Reasoning - Provides a direct, relatively fast connection between Orpington and Bexleyheath (and also has the added benefit of reinstating the direct connection between most of the R11 route and Foots Cray Tesco). Other changes: 233 Eltham to Swanley (3bph SD) Upgraded to longer buses (partially to account for the fact it becomes the only route between Ruxley and Sidcup). 269 Bexleyheath to Bromley North (5bph DD) Withdrawn between Bexleyheath Library and Bexleyheath Town Centre as was consulted on previously. PVR reduced from 13 to 12. 492 Bexleyheath to Dartford (3bph DD) Withdrawn between Bexleyheath Town Centre and Sidcup station. Frequency increased from 2bph to 3bph, PVR remains at 6 but crosslink with 401 removed. Sunday morning service added. B14 Bexleyheath Bus Garage to Queen Mary's Hospital (3bph SD) Withdrawn between Queen Mary's Hospital and Orpington. Diverted back to Bexleyheath Clock Tower, and then up to BX to terminate and stand. Frequency increased from 2bph to 3bph, PVR remains at 6 (5 daytime + 1 DD school extra). Sunday morning and evening service added. The 492 runs to Bluewater Shopping Centre not Dartford, presumably it would still run between Bexleyheath & Bluewater? |
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Post by londonbuses on Mar 13, 2024 19:38:15 GMT
Bexleyheath-Orpington changes New route: 392 Bexleyheath to Orpington Station (3bph DD) New route running via route B14 from Orpington Station to Crittals Corner, Revington Way, then route 492 from Ruxley Corner to Bexleyheath. Runs at 3bph using DDs (providing the B14/R11 route between St Mary Cray and Crittals Corner can take DDs). New stops added on Revington Way outside Foots Cray Tesco as a double run is not possible due to the banned right turn out of the Tesco. Reasoning - Provides a direct, relatively fast connection between Orpington and Bexleyheath (and also has the added benefit of reinstating the direct connection between most of the R11 route and Foots Cray Tesco). Other changes: 233 Eltham to Swanley (3bph SD) Upgraded to longer buses (partially to account for the fact it becomes the only route between Ruxley and Sidcup). 269 Bexleyheath to Bromley North (5bph DD) Withdrawn between Bexleyheath Library and Bexleyheath Town Centre as was consulted on previously. PVR reduced from 13 to 12. 492 Bexleyheath to Dartford (3bph DD) Withdrawn between Bexleyheath Town Centre and Sidcup station. Frequency increased from 2bph to 3bph, PVR remains at 6 but crosslink with 401 removed. Sunday morning service added. B14 Bexleyheath Bus Garage to Queen Mary's Hospital (3bph SD) Withdrawn between Queen Mary's Hospital and Orpington. Diverted back to Bexleyheath Clock Tower, and then up to BX to terminate and stand. Frequency increased from 2bph to 3bph, PVR remains at 6 (5 daytime + 1 DD school extra). Sunday morning and evening service added. The 492 runs to Bluewater Shopping Centre not Dartford, presumably it would still run between Bexleyheath & Bluewater? Yes, I'm not sure why I wrote Dartford but I've changed it now. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Mar 13, 2024 20:11:25 GMT
Bexleyheath-Orpington changes New route: 392 Bexleyheath to Orpington Station (3bph DD) New route running via route B14 from Orpington Station to Crittals Corner, Revington Way, then route 492 from Ruxley Corner to Bexleyheath. Runs at 3bph using DDs (providing the B14/R11 route between St Mary Cray and Crittals Corner can take DDs). New stops added on Revington Way outside Foots Cray Tesco as a double run is not possible due to the banned right turn out of the Tesco. Reasoning - Provides a direct, relatively fast connection between Orpington and Bexleyheath (and also has the added benefit of reinstating the direct connection between most of the R11 route and Foots Cray Tesco). Other changes: 233 Eltham to Swanley (3bph SD) Upgraded to longer buses (partially to account for the fact it becomes the only route between Ruxley and Sidcup). 269 Bexleyheath to Bromley North (5bph DD) Withdrawn between Bexleyheath Library and Bexleyheath Town Centre as was consulted on previously. PVR reduced from 13 to 12. 492 Bexleyheath to Bluewater (3bph DD) Withdrawn between Bexleyheath Town Centre and Sidcup station. Frequency increased from 2bph to 3bph, PVR remains at 6 but crosslink with 401 removed. Sunday morning service added. B14 Bexleyheath Bus Garage to Queen Mary's Hospital (3bph SD) Withdrawn between Queen Mary's Hospital and Orpington. Diverted back to Bexleyheath Clock Tower, and then up to BX to terminate and stand. Frequency increased from 2bph to 3bph, PVR remains at 6 (5 daytime + 1 DD school extra). Sunday morning and evening service added. Not sure about any of this I’m afraid. I’m particularly not a fan of chopping the 492 up - there’s a lot of overlap traffic between the two legs from Bexleyheath - it’s a number of broken links. I think longer buses are avoided on the 233 because of the narrow Northview Estate in Swanley : the same estate also precludes double decks. I would think that the B14/R11 route through the Crays could take double decks - the R1 certainly couldn’t. |
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Post by Paul on Mar 13, 2024 20:44:22 GMT
Bexleyheath-Orpington changes New route: 392 Bexleyheath to Orpington Station (3bph DD) New route running via route B14 from Orpington Station to Crittals Corner, Revington Way, then route 492 from Ruxley Corner to Bexleyheath. Runs at 3bph using DDs (providing the B14/R11 route between St Mary Cray and Crittals Corner can take DDs). New stops added on Revington Way outside Foots Cray Tesco as a double run is not possible due to the banned right turn out of the Tesco. Reasoning - Provides a direct, relatively fast connection between Orpington and Bexleyheath (and also has the added benefit of reinstating the direct connection between most of the R11 route and Foots Cray Tesco). Other changes: 233 Eltham to Swanley (3bph SD) Upgraded to longer buses (partially to account for the fact it becomes the only route between Ruxley and Sidcup). 269 Bexleyheath to Bromley North (5bph DD) Withdrawn between Bexleyheath Library and Bexleyheath Town Centre as was consulted on previously. PVR reduced from 13 to 12. 492 Bexleyheath to Bluewater (3bph DD) Withdrawn between Bexleyheath Town Centre and Sidcup station. Frequency increased from 2bph to 3bph, PVR remains at 6 but crosslink with 401 removed. Sunday morning service added. B14 Bexleyheath Bus Garage to Queen Mary's Hospital (3bph SD) Withdrawn between Queen Mary's Hospital and Orpington. Diverted back to Bexleyheath Clock Tower, and then up to BX to terminate and stand. Frequency increased from 2bph to 3bph, PVR remains at 6 (5 daytime + 1 DD school extra). Sunday morning and evening service added. I’m agreeing a lot with twobellstogo this evening! I don’t see the merit in splitting the 492 - I see it a lot in Sidcup even when not on SL3 duty and it’s always busy. It’s one of those routes that does it’s job well With the introduction of the SL3, standing the 269 at Bexleyheath Library is asking for trouble. It can get extremely tight around there with the B13 and B14 also standing there. And speaking of the B14, terminating a service at a bus garage should only be used if it’s being run by the operator of the garage and should not be tendered as such. I suspect you’d have trouble finding space at Queen Mary’s Hospital as well However, I do like your 392 - not least because it would make my wife’s journey to and from work far easier and far safer! New stops on Edgington Way (not Revington) would work and there is space to do so. Bexleyheath to Orpington could do with a direct link in my opinion and the B14 is anything but direct! I also don’t see much of an issue with the routing using deckers. I’ve personally driven a decker on diversion along Chipperfield Road with no issues and I don’t see any issues along Mickleham Road either |
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Post by bk10mfe on Mar 13, 2024 21:10:06 GMT
Bexleyheath-Orpington changes New route: 392 Bexleyheath to Orpington Station (3bph DD) New route running via route B14 from Orpington Station to Crittals Corner, Revington Way, then route 492 from Ruxley Corner to Bexleyheath. Runs at 3bph using DDs (providing the B14/R11 route between St Mary Cray and Crittals Corner can take DDs). New stops added on Revington Way outside Foots Cray Tesco as a double run is not possible due to the banned right turn out of the Tesco. Reasoning - Provides a direct, relatively fast connection between Orpington and Bexleyheath (and also has the added benefit of reinstating the direct connection between most of the R11 route and Foots Cray Tesco). Other changes: 233 Eltham to Swanley (3bph SD) Upgraded to longer buses (partially to account for the fact it becomes the only route between Ruxley and Sidcup). 269 Bexleyheath to Bromley North (5bph DD) Withdrawn between Bexleyheath Library and Bexleyheath Town Centre as was consulted on previously. PVR reduced from 13 to 12. 492 Bexleyheath to Bluewater (3bph DD) Withdrawn between Bexleyheath Town Centre and Sidcup station. Frequency increased from 2bph to 3bph, PVR remains at 6 but crosslink with 401 removed. Sunday morning service added. B14 Bexleyheath Bus Garage to Queen Mary's Hospital (3bph SD) Withdrawn between Queen Mary's Hospital and Orpington. Diverted back to Bexleyheath Clock Tower, and then up to BX to terminate and stand. Frequency increased from 2bph to 3bph, PVR remains at 6 (5 daytime + 1 DD school extra). Sunday morning and evening service added. I’m agreeing a lot with twobellstogo this evening! I don’t see the merit in splitting the 492 - I see it a lot in Sidcup even when not on SL3 duty and it’s always busy. It’s one of those routes that does it’s job well With the introduction of the SL3, standing the 269 at Bexleyheath Library is asking for trouble. It can get extremely tight around there with the B13 and B14 also standing there. And speaking of the B14, terminating a service at a bus garage should only be used if it’s being run by the operator of the garage and should not be tendered as such. I suspect you’d have trouble finding space at Queen Mary’s Hospital as well However, I do like your 392 - not least because it would make my wife’s journey to and from work far easier and far safer! New stops on Edgington Way (not Revington) would work and there is space to do so. Bexleyheath to Orpington could do with a direct link in my opinion and the B14 is anything but direct! I also don’t see much of an issue with the routing using deckers. I’ve personally driven a decker on diversion along Chipperfield Road with no issues and I don’t see any issues along Mickleham Road either How well does the B14 load along its route? It may be made even more indirect & busy if it gets merged onto the R6. |
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Post by ronnie on Mar 13, 2024 21:41:12 GMT
With the combined 244/291 the problem is that the 291 will become useless - 291 is meant to be a shuttle from the hospital/Woolwich to Woodlands Estate- changing the route will only make things worse. Also, 291 already has a decent frequency anyway so increasing the frequency won't really make a difference. Yes with the 244 there are restrictions around Broadwaters but also low trees in Shooters Hill. Like I said before, it would benefit from deckers, but it "supposedly can't take them". So even if you wanted to reroute 291 around Shooters Hill, or 178 around Broadwaters, it just wouldn't work. I think as a general rule with routes that only get stand time on one end shouldn’t be extended or take a longer route. The 138, 291 & R70 are the only routes I’m aware of that do this, I would be interested to know if there are anymore. The B12, B13, B15, R5, R8, R9, R10, 327, 499 also have stand time at one end only. The 346 also used to do this till a few days back Believe H2/H3 as well but not sure |
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Post by Paul on Mar 13, 2024 21:43:14 GMT
How well does the B14 load along its route? It may be made even more indirect & busy if it gets merged onto the R6. In my, admittedly very limited, experience of the B14, there aren’t that many end to end journeys. Orpington to Bexleyheath can be completed far quicker by other methods. What the B14 does well is connect neighbourhoods to town centres and the hospital. If you were going to curtail the B14 then I doubt it would be missed between St Mary Cray and Orpington. However, it’s looking likely that the route will be diverted over the R6. I don’t see too many problems - those wanting St Mary Cray Station and St Paul’s Cray are likely to simply use the R1 and R11 since the B14 will be far more indirect. It just makes a more direct Orpington/Bexleyheath link a bit more necessary in my opinion |
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Post by bk10mfe on Mar 13, 2024 21:50:01 GMT
I think as a general rule with routes that only get stand time on one end shouldn’t be extended or take a longer route. The 138, 291 & R70 are the only routes I’m aware of that do this, I would be interested to know if there are anymore. The B12, B13, B15, R5, R8, R9, R10, 327, 499 also have stand time at one end only. The 346 also used to do this till a few days back Believe H2/H3 as well but not sure Yes all of the routes you’ve mentioned above all only get stand time at one end, those 138/291/R70 were the only ones I could think of immediately. The H2/H3 also only stand in Golders Green, as do the H9/H10/H18/H19 in Harrow. 389/399 I believe are part of that list too. |
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Post by COBO on Mar 13, 2024 21:53:01 GMT
The B12, B13, B15, R5, R8, R9, R10, 327, 499 also have stand time at one end only. The 346 also used to do this till a few days back Believe H2/H3 as well but not sure Yes all of the routes you’ve mentioned above all only get stand time at one end, those 138/291/R70 were the only ones I could think of immediately. The H2/H3 also only stand in Golders Green, as do the H9/H10/H18/H19 in Harrow. H9/H10 don’t stand in Harrow they stand at Northwick Park Hospital. |
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