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Post by mrhk on Nov 10, 2024 20:21:21 GMT
Restructure ideas to support the 183: Option 1183 - Withdrawn between Pinner and Harrow (340 stand). 114 - Withdrawn between Ruislip and Harrow, and instead extended to Pinner via the 183. Maintains the Pinner-Kenton link. 458 - New route from Ruislip to Edgware, via the 114 to Harrow then the 186. Using DDs every 10 minutes. 186 - Withdrawn between Northwick Park and Edgware. Extended from Brent Cross to North Cricklewood, serving new developments. 340 - Extended from Harrow to Northwick Park Hospital, and from Edgware to Mill Hill Broadway, maintaining links from the 186. Option 2183 - Withdrawn between Pinner and Harrow. H11 - Extended from Harrow to Northwick Park, freeing up stand space at Harrow for the 183 (and linking Pinner to Northwick Park). 373 - New route from Pinner to Brent Cross Shopping Centre, via the 183 to Kenton, then Draycott Avenue, Woodcock Hill, The Mall, Kingsbury Station, then the 183 to West Hendon and the 142 to Brent Cross. Creating a direct link from Harrow to Brent Cross, a new link from Kenton to Brent Cross, and other new links to the area around Woodcock Hill. Overlaps with the 183 to partially replace capacity from the SL10, which would no longer serve Kingsbury and Hendon. Using DDs every 12 minutes. SL10 - Diverted between Kenton and Finchley Central via Edgware, providing faster orbital links from Edgware to Harrow and Finchley. Via the 114 to Queensbury Circle, then Taunton Way, the 288 to Edgware, 221 to Mill Hill (Pursley Road), Devonshire Road and Dollis Road. After Kenton Station, stopping at Queensbury Circle, Deansbrook Road (for Edgware Community Hospital), St Margarets Church, Edgware Bus Station, Cloister Gardens, Mill Hill Broadway Station, Holders Hill Circus and Finchley Central Station. Both equally interesting ideas you've proposed however for the second option, I'm not too sure extending the H11 to Northwick Park would free up enough space. I would also look at extending or removing another route that terminates ar Harrow to provide sufficient standing space. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Nov 10, 2024 22:34:58 GMT
Restructure ideas to support the 183: Option 1183 - Withdrawn between Pinner and Harrow (340 stand). 114 - Withdrawn between Ruislip and Harrow, and instead extended to Pinner via the 183. Maintains the Pinner-Kenton link. 458 - New route from Ruislip to Edgware, via the 114 to Harrow then the 186. Using DDs every 10 minutes. 186 - Withdrawn between Northwick Park and Edgware. Extended from Brent Cross to North Cricklewood, serving new developments. 340 - Extended from Harrow to Northwick Park Hospital, and from Edgware to Mill Hill Broadway, maintaining links from the 186. Option 2183 - Withdrawn between Pinner and Harrow. H11 - Extended from Harrow to Northwick Park, freeing up stand space at Harrow for the 183 (and linking Pinner to Northwick Park). 373 - New route from Pinner to Brent Cross Shopping Centre, via the 183 to Kenton, then Draycott Avenue, Woodcock Hill, The Mall, Kingsbury Station, then the 183 to West Hendon and the 142 to Brent Cross. Creating a direct link from Harrow to Brent Cross, a new link from Kenton to Brent Cross, and other new links to the area around Woodcock Hill. Overlaps with the 183 to partially replace capacity from the SL10, which would no longer serve Kingsbury and Hendon. Using DDs every 12 minutes. SL10 - Diverted between Kenton and Finchley Central via Edgware, providing faster orbital links from Edgware to Harrow and Finchley. Via the 114 to Queensbury Circle, then Taunton Way, the 288 to Edgware, 221 to Mill Hill (Pursley Road), Devonshire Road and Dollis Road. After Kenton Station, stopping at Queensbury Circle, Deansbrook Road (for Edgware Community Hospital), St Margarets Church, Edgware Bus Station, Cloister Gardens, Mill Hill Broadway Station, Holders Hill Circus and Finchley Central Station. Both equally interesting ideas you've proposed however for the second option, I'm not too sure extending the H11 to Northwick Park would free up enough space. I would also look at extending or removing another route that terminates ar Harrow to provide sufficient standing space. I think the H11 may be enough, though it depends how full Harrow Bus Station is at the moment. The SL9 shouldn't require as many buses on stand at a time than the H9/H10 it replaced. Alternatively, if a lot more stand space does need to be made available at Harrow, one option could be to break the H18/H19 loop. Very few passengers travel across Harrow Weald, and there is an unused stand available on Long Elmes, and another just north of the bus garage. Perhaps the 395 and H17 could both extend from Harrow to Harrow Weald, one via Kenton and one via North Harrow. The H18/H19 seem to generally be busier at the Kenton side, so I would send the more frequent H17 that way. To avoid double runs to Harrow, the H17 could divert via the 114/183 between Harrow and Kenton, and the 395 could swap with the 258 between Harrow and South Harrow. The other option would be to look at the Superloop routes and change where they terminate. Since TFL are happy with keeping the SL7 at its current length, could the SL1 and SL9 both cope with an extension to Edgware (and the SL10 withdrawn)? |
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 11, 2024 11:00:15 GMT
Here are all the changes of bus routes that I think should happen in Enfield (as well as changes to bus routes that go through Enfield.) I am a local here and have been so for the past 30 years. 1. Extend the 279 to Finsbury Park station. -Will provide better onwards connections west and south towards central London, far better than Manor House ever could 2. Create a new bus route from Waltham Cross right the way down to Tottenham Hale, all via the A1055. Via Enfield lock/Mollison Avenue, Brimsdown station, Ponders End station, Picketts Lock Centre, Meridian Water, Northumberland Park and Tottenham Hale/Seven Sisters - The Picketts Lock centre currently does not have any form of bus/train link northwards. I do NOT count Ponders End as it is simply too far away to be of any assistance (try walking the distance if u disagree with me!) Also helps travel connections easier for the likes of Finsbury Park, Holloway, etc. *DOUBLE DECK.* -Could call it the LV1 bus. 3. Make a new bus route from Waltham Cross to Chingford - no reason here, just think it’ll make good links. Could potentially be a single decker route (Could call it the LV2) 4. A new bus route from Tottenham Hale to Chingford via the A1055, then onto the A406 via meridian water then following the 444 bus route . -Again making new links. Could also take pressure of Victoria line and national rail (Could call this LV3) I cannot see any gain sending the 279 to Finsbury Park. A lot of people get off these routes at Manor House, same with the 259. Just a pointless extension. What you fail to forget it mirrors the 259 from Edmonton Green, if someone really wanted to make the 4 more stops for a connection of the 19 or 4. Some of these destinations are available from Manor House or even Seven Sisters. Despite seeming a bit of an insignificant destination, loadings on the 279 to/from Manor House are pretty heavy. I can imagine a factor would be the zone 2 fare option from people using the route along Tottenham High Road. If the 259/349 was revisited again I would hope the 279 is left at MH this time rather then going to Stamford Hill. |
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Post by wirewiper on Nov 11, 2024 12:26:25 GMT
I cannot see any gain sending the 279 to Finsbury Park. A lot of people get off these routes at Manor House, same with the 259. Just a pointless extension. What you fail to forget it mirrors the 259 from Edmonton Green, if someone really wanted to make the 4 more stops for a connection of the 19 or 4. Some of these destinations are available from Manor House or even Seven Sisters. Despite seeming a bit of an insignificant destination, loadings on the 279 to/from Manor House are pretty heavy. I can imagine a factor would be the zone 2 fare option from people using the route along Tottenham High Road. If the 259/349 was revisited again I would hope the 279 is left at MH this time rather then going to Stamford Hill. Manor House is not an insignificant destination, it has been a major interchange ever since the Piccadilly Line station opened there in 1932. Indeed it was designed to relieve the pressure on Finsbury Park from people changing from trams and buses. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 11, 2024 12:37:52 GMT
Despite seeming a bit of an insignificant destination, loadings on the 279 to/from Manor House are pretty heavy. I can imagine a factor would be the zone 2 fare option from people using the route along Tottenham High Road. If the 259/349 was revisited again I would hope the 279 is left at MH this time rather then going to Stamford Hill. Manor House is not an insignificant destination, it has been a major interchange ever since the Piccadilly Line station opened there in 1932. Indeed it was designed to relieve the pressure on Finsbury Park from people changing from trams and buses. I agree. That's why I said seeming as it's not the most major of towns. Also worth noting for many years it was a scheduled short working for routes no doubt to mop up the crowds. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Nov 11, 2024 22:55:00 GMT
I feel like the 123 should be rerouted to Edmonton Green once the Harringay proposals go ahead. I just don’t think it will be used all that well once it’s cutback to Turnpike Lane since it would be cutoff from the Wood Green Shopping City & I could see many existing users switching to the 230/243. Also provides lots of new links such at the Tottenham Hale-Tottenham Stadium.
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Post by sdaniel on Nov 11, 2024 23:49:11 GMT
I feel like the 123 should be rerouted to Edmonton Green once the Harringay proposals go ahead. I just don’t think it will be used all that well once it’s cutback to Turnpike Lane since it would be cutoff from the Wood Green Shopping City & I could see many existing users switching to the 230/243. Also provides lots of new links such at the Tottenham Hale-Tottenham Stadium. You will break the Tottenham Hale and Lordship Lane direct link if you were to divert the 123 to Edmonton Green. No doubt I’m against the 123 being curtailed to TPL Station but diverting it to Edmonton Green doesn’t make it any better. If you want to create a Tottenham Hale-Tottenham Stadium link then the best route to divert is the 192 via Monument Way, Tottenham High Road, Northumberland Park (341’s way), Meridian Water then 192 going it’s normal route from Meridian Water to Enfield. And for that to happen, that’s why I suggested some time ago that 158 should be rerouted to Meridian Water through Tottenham Hale and Watermead Way (192’s current route between Tottenham Hale & Meridian Water) then extend the 41/N41 to Chingford Mount. |
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Post by sdaniel on Nov 15, 2024 1:22:20 GMT
Restructure ideas for merging 73 & 476:
73: Oxford Circus - Meridian Water (merged with 476 & converted into 24 hour route)
76: Waterloo - Walthamstow Central (extended to Walthamstow Central via N73’s way from Tottenham Hale)
476: Withdrawn (merged with route 73)
N73: Withdrawn (replaced by 76 between Stoke Newington and Walthamstow Central)
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Post by vjaska on Nov 15, 2024 4:41:31 GMT
Restructure ideas for merging 73 & 476:73: Oxford Circus - Meridian Water (merged with 476 & converted into 24 hour route) 76: Waterloo - Walthamstow Central (extended to Walthamstow Central via N73’s way from Tottenham Hale) 476: Withdrawn (merged with route 73) N73: Withdrawn (replaced by 76 between Stoke Newington and Walthamstow Central) The 76's max running time is already 92 minutes long so I can't see such an extension happening. I also don't think any merging needs to take place on this corridor and I don't understand why so many want to merge these two routes together but I'm not local so maybe I'm missing something. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 15, 2024 9:04:34 GMT
Restructure ideas for merging 73 & 476:73: Oxford Circus - Meridian Water (merged with 476 & converted into 24 hour route) 76: Waterloo - Walthamstow Central (extended to Walthamstow Central via N73’s way from Tottenham Hale) 476: Withdrawn (merged with route 73) N73: Withdrawn (replaced by 76 between Stoke Newington and Walthamstow Central) The 76's max running time is already 92 minutes long so I can't see such an extension happening. I also don't think any merging needs to take place on this corridor and I don't understand why so many want to merge these two routes together but I'm not local so maybe I'm missing something. If anything its more likely the overlap between the 73 and 476 will be shortened with say the 476 becoming Angel to Meridian Water. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Nov 15, 2024 9:24:46 GMT
The 76's max running time is already 92 minutes long so I can't see such an extension happening. I also don't think any merging needs to take place on this corridor and I don't understand why so many want to merge these two routes together but I'm not local so maybe I'm missing something. If anything its more likely the overlap between the 73 and 476 will be shortened with say the 476 becoming Angel to Meridian Water. I think the 73 running between Oxford Circus & Northumberland Park is sensible, however I would only have half the service going to Northumberland Park(with the other half curtailing at Stoke Newington as present) as the 73’s frequency is 2x that of the 476’s. I also don’t see a need to go all the way to Meridian Water as the 341 already shares a lot of common links. |
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Post by greenboy on Nov 15, 2024 9:26:44 GMT
Restructure ideas for merging 73 & 476:73: Oxford Circus - Meridian Water (merged with 476 & converted into 24 hour route) 76: Waterloo - Walthamstow Central (extended to Walthamstow Central via N73’s way from Tottenham Hale) 476: Withdrawn (merged with route 73) N73: Withdrawn (replaced by 76 between Stoke Newington and Walthamstow Central) I agree with merging the 73 and 476, did you mean just the night service on the 76 extended to Walthamstow? I don't think a daytime extension could be justified. |
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Post by sdaniel on Nov 15, 2024 14:09:18 GMT
Restructure ideas for merging 73 & 476:73: Oxford Circus - Meridian Water (merged with 476 & converted into 24 hour route) 76: Waterloo - Walthamstow Central (extended to Walthamstow Central via N73’s way from Tottenham Hale) 476: Withdrawn (merged with route 73) N73: Withdrawn (replaced by 76 between Stoke Newington and Walthamstow Central) The 76's max running time is already 92 minutes long so I can't see such an extension happening. I also don't think any merging needs to take place on this corridor and I don't understand why so many want to merge these two routes together but I'm not local so maybe I'm missing something. Addressing your point about merging 73 and 476. The 73 has been cut back a lot. 73 used to run from Victoria to Seven Sisters but has been cut back a lot for it to now run from Oxford Circus to Stoke Newington. 476 used to run from Northumberland Park to Euston but has been cut back to Kings Cross and was even proposed to be further cut to Newington Green so at this point it makes no sense why 73 and 476 are different routes if they are going to continue to be curtailed otherwise they are both at risk for withdrawals. |
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Post by sdaniel on Nov 15, 2024 14:15:27 GMT
Restructure ideas for merging 73 & 476:73: Oxford Circus - Meridian Water (merged with 476 & converted into 24 hour route) 76: Waterloo - Walthamstow Central (extended to Walthamstow Central via N73’s way from Tottenham Hale) 476: Withdrawn (merged with route 73) N73: Withdrawn (replaced by 76 between Stoke Newington and Walthamstow Central) I agree with merging the 73 and 476, did you mean just the night service on the 76 extended to Walthamstow? I don't think a daytime extension could be justified. Well there isn’t an N76 so that was why I proposed the 24hr route to extend. But the max running time is 92 minutes so it could be a bit too long, making the max running time increase to about 105 minutes. |
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Post by vjaska on Nov 15, 2024 14:16:56 GMT
The 76's max running time is already 92 minutes long so I can't see such an extension happening. I also don't think any merging needs to take place on this corridor and I don't understand why so many want to merge these two routes together but I'm not local so maybe I'm missing something. Addressing your point about merging 73 and 476. The 73 has been cut back a lot. 73 used to run from Victoria to Seven Sisters but has been cut back a lot for it to now run from Oxford Circus to Stoke Newington. 476 used to run from Northumberland Park to Euston but has been cut back to Kings Cross and was even proposed to be further cut to Newington Green so at this point it makes no sense why 73 and 476 are different routes if they are going to continue to be curtailed otherwise they are both at risk for withdrawals. Your reasoning doesn't really make sense when suggesting for a merging of both routes - 73 used to run from Hammersmith at one point yet was cut back and a 476 was spawned in 2003 so using cut back as a justification doesn't make much sense IMO. We have no idea whether they will be curtailed further and I don't see how either route is at risk, particularly the 476 given it's been mooted on several occasions as being extended eventually to Meridian Water - neither is in the same boat as the 45 or 414. |
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