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Post by danorak on Jan 15, 2021 20:32:55 GMT
In terms of frequency for the 68 and 86. The 168 paralleing between Elephant and Euston and the 59 up to Waterloo makes me think it is slightly overbussed and the 188 definitely does not need to be there either. Regarding the 86 possibly a very small frequency change in certain hours as the Elizabeth Line follows between Stratford and Romford and same going for the N25 I can see a scenario where the 59 and 188 are removed, definitely. Not so sure about the 168 though. Potentially cut back to Elephant? This is assuming there is stand space. Don't think the 86 will be cut back personally. I'd be surprised to see cutbacks along the Old Kent Road given that this is one area that is particularly remote from rail alternatives.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2021 20:40:42 GMT
Just realised there is two very similar threads now discussing the cuts perhaps they could be merged?
This one was more about service reductions in Lockdown one?
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Post by TB123 on Jan 15, 2021 20:45:10 GMT
Just realised there is two very similar threads now discussing the cuts perhaps they could be merged?
This one was more about service reductions in Lockdown one?
This is more about the short term ramifications whereas the one I started is more about the longer term changes that could plan especially those arising from the recent report.
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Post by TB123 on Jan 15, 2021 20:46:18 GMT
I can see a scenario where the 59 and 188 are removed, definitely. Not so sure about the 168 though. Potentially cut back to Elephant? This is assuming there is stand space. Don't think the 86 will be cut back personally. I'd be surprised to see cutbacks along the Old Kent Road given that this is one area that is particularly remote from rail alternatives. I'd have thought that too but we shall have to wait and see. I hope TfL use any consultation for buses on that corridor to tie in some possible changes from the network paper for the area.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 15, 2021 20:54:39 GMT
Cant see the 86 touched. As for the 68 could be cut to Herne Hill as was planned in 1994. There is no stand space in Herne Hill - the old stand space on Hurst Street has long gone.
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Post by TB123 on Jan 15, 2021 20:55:39 GMT
Cant see the 86 touched. As for the 68 could be cut to Herne Hill as was planned in 1994. There is no stand space in Herne Hill - the old stand space on Hurst Street has long gone. Only place I could see the 68 being cut back to is Aldwych personally
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Post by greg on Jan 15, 2021 21:00:27 GMT
In terms of frequency for the 68 and 86. The 168 paralleing between Elephant and Euston and the 59 up to Waterloo makes me think it is slightly overbussed and the 188 definitely does not need to be there either. Regarding the 86 possibly a very small frequency change in certain hours as the Elizabeth Line follows between Stratford and Romford and same going for the N25 I can see a scenario where the 59 and 188 are removed, definitely. Not so sure about the 168 though. Potentially cut back to Elephant? This is assuming there is stand space. Don't think the 86 will be cut back personally. I think the 68 maybe to Holborn? The main overbuss is on Southampton Row and Old Kent Road need the 168 anyway. The 168 will still provide for the 68 in current time as far as Elephant, whereas the 59 should not be cutback as it turns off at Waterloo to Kennington and is a key link right there.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 15, 2021 21:01:29 GMT
Can't see the 86 being touched but I do see the 188 potentially cut back to Elephant but only in tandem with other changes in the area. Can't see what they could do with the 68 either In terms of frequency for the 68 and 86. The 168 paralleing between Elephant and Euston and the 59 up to Waterloo makes me think it is slightly overbussed and the 188 definitely does not need to be there either. Regarding the 86 possibly a very small frequency change in certain hours as the Elizabeth Line follows between Stratford and Romford and same going for the N25 I'd suggest as others said to see the 86 corridor for yourself - TfL Rail/Elizabeth Line will not put such a dent in that the 86 will be cutback. Arguably, that corridor is a contender for busiest corridor in London. The 188 could certainly be cut back as that should help it's reliability enormously and allow it to concentrate on the service east of Elephant. Elephant has limited space and the Old Kent Road requires the frequency of routes it has especially given the 415 was extended to the Tesco due to capacity concerns (doubles up as a useful cross Elephant link too) so can't see the logic in cutting the 168 back at all. No logic in the 53 cutback either as St Thomas's Hospital is used by people who live quite a distance away in South East London as local hospitals there refer them to Kings & Tommies
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Post by greg on Jan 15, 2021 21:04:36 GMT
In terms of frequency for the 68 and 86. The 168 paralleing between Elephant and Euston and the 59 up to Waterloo makes me think it is slightly overbussed and the 188 definitely does not need to be there either. Regarding the 86 possibly a very small frequency change in certain hours as the Elizabeth Line follows between Stratford and Romford and same going for the N25 I'd suggest as others said to see the 86 corridor for yourself - TfL Rail/Elizabeth Line will not put such a dent in that the 86 will be cutback. Arguably, that corridor is a contender for busiest corridor in London. The 188 could certainly be cut back as that should help it's reliability enormously and allow it to concentrate on the service east of Elephant. Elephant has limited space and the Old Kent Road requires the frequency of routes it has especially given the 415 was extended to the Tesco due to capacity concerns (doubles up as a useful cross Elephant link too) so can't see the logic in cutting the 168 back at all. No logic in the 53 cutback either as St Thomas's Hospital is used by people who live quite a distance away in South East London as local hospitals there refer them to Kings & Tommies Yeah i did not think properly on the 86 so apolgies. Bar the 168, i dont think it should be cut at all but mentioning it as the 68 follows this route too partially. I imagine a 68 cut to Holborn Station may be ok with the 168 left as it is as Old Kent Road is not overbussed but Southampton Row
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 15, 2021 21:12:01 GMT
I never thought the 48 would be cut so anything is possible now with tfl.
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Post by greenboy on Jan 15, 2021 21:27:10 GMT
I never thought the 48 would be cut so anything is possible now with tfl. I wouldn't be greatly shocked if the 68 went the same way with just minimal replacement....... TfL would probably then remove the 4 from the 468 to try and fool people.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 15, 2021 21:48:37 GMT
When I put my spin Dr hat on I saw the 4 being dropped from the 468 aswell. With tfl failing to mention that the section between Elephant and Euston not being replaced and proclaiming that through 68 is being extended to South Croydon.
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Post by LJ17THF on Jan 15, 2021 22:36:29 GMT
I never thought the 48 would be cut so anything is possible now with tfl. I wouldn't be greatly shocked if the 68 went the same way with just minimal replacement....... TfL would probably then remove the 4 from the 468 to try and fool people. Yes, they would probably do that since it has a much lower number and runs with LT's. Though I very much doubt this, combined, the 68 and 468 have a PVR of 47 (obviously they do not run in the same places and serve other places).
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Post by SILENCED on Jan 15, 2021 22:49:01 GMT
I wouldn't be greatly shocked if the 68 went the same way with just minimal replacement....... TfL would probably then remove the 4 from the 468 to try and fool people. Yes, they would probably do that since it has a much lower number and runs with LT's. Though I very much doubt this, combined, the 68 and 468 have a PVR of 47 (obviously they do not run in the same places and serve other places). They are talking about cutting a pvr of 300 ... some big cuts will have to occur to achieve this!
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Post by greg on Jan 16, 2021 21:38:49 GMT
Some things that would probably happen: I have learned its Central London only so have not mentioned any routes outside
1 - withdrawn between Holborn and Tottenham Court Road 113 - withdrawn between Portman Square and Oxford Circus 53 - withdrawn between Elephant & Castle and County Hall 188 - withdrawn between Waterloo and Russel Square 91 - withdrawn between Holborn and Trafalgar Square 73 - extended from Stoke Newington to Northumberland Park via the 476 274 - withdrawn between Portman Square and Lancaster Gate 68/414/476: withdrawn completely 14/168/468: frequency increase 2/12/13/15/18/21/29/38/55/73/88/91/113/134/390/453: frequency decrease
17: from King’s Cross diverted to Bart’s Hospital via route 46 46: withdrawn between King’s Cross and Bart’s Hospital 214 - withdrawn between Islington, Angel and Moorgate 271 - withdrawn between Old Street and Moorgate
I think routes 73 and 453 which will be replacing parts of other routes (53/476) - i still think they should get a frequency decrease because they are still unbelievably high. The 73’s current PVR i believe is 35 - I think 24 is adequate even during the peaks
Buses serving areas like Victoria and Liverpool Street I didn’t add because I didn’t think I had enough knowledge to speak on it - but I think a 47 cut to London Bridge?
I mentioned all the routes from the top of my head
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