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Post by DE20106 on Jan 5, 2024 21:20:25 GMT
Looking at the specs for the double deck Volvo BZL, it is very underpowered @ 200kw (272bhp) which is also the same as the standard single deck output but the single deck also has a option of 400kw (544bhp). I mean looking at the VMSLs for the 251 they weigh 12725kgs already so surely the double decker must be somewhere around 13,700kgs. I would say 272hp is slightly above average for a double deck bus. An ADL Enviro400 has 250hp, a Scania N230UD has 230hp, a Volvo B5LH has 240hp. Scania’s certainly don’t feel like they only have 230bhp, they drive like they have about 20000 😂 How incredible that a 9 litre Scania engine only produces 230bph, when most 2 litre engines in cars and vans produce more than that
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Post by busoccultation on Jan 5, 2024 22:14:41 GMT
I would say 272hp is slightly above average for a double deck bus. An ADL Enviro400 has 250hp, a Scania N230UD has 230hp, a Volvo B5LH has 240hp. Scania’s certainly don’t feel like they only have 230bhp, they drive like they have about 20000 😂 How incredible that a 9 litre Scania engine only produces 230bph, when most 2 litre engines in cars and vans produce more than that Indeed, the more powerful N270UD version is bascially on another level like most of Metrobus Crawley Omnicity DD fleet which are N270 examples which are such a blast on those Sussex/Surrey country roads they used on.
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Post by Volvo on Jan 6, 2024 18:32:41 GMT
Looking at the specs for the double deck Volvo BZL, it is very underpowered @ 200kw (272bhp) which is also the same as the standard single deck output but the single deck also has a option of 400kw (544bhp). I mean looking at the VMSLs for the 251 they weigh 12725kgs already so surely the double decker must be somewhere around 13,700kgs. I would say 272hp is slightly above average for a double deck bus. An ADL Enviro400 has 250hp, a Scania N230UD has 230hp, a Volvo B5LH has 240hp. They also don't weigh over 13,000kgs unloaded. Do you mean the B5TL has 240? As the B5LH has 400bhp peak performance (240bhp engine + 160bhp motor) then drops to 334bhp continuous (240+94bhp) according to Volvo's specs and the heaviest B5LH I have personally seen is GALs BX14TJV which weighs 12, 450kgs iirc other than that London spec B5LHs are around 1, 000kgs less than that. Also I believe E400Hs are around 280bhp iirc. I bet that if these buse types you mentioned weighed over 13,000kgs with stated horsepower they wouldn't be as quick as they are now (or then). As a driver I certainly notice the difference on any bus from driving it empty to even having a 1/4 load. I also know that despite having 400+ bhp the BCEs have nothing the best VH/ADHs because you can just feel the heaviness behind the BCEs. I don't know what the electroliners have as can't find the information online but I know the BYD E400s have 408bhp, the BYD E200s have 240 and the new Integral ADL electric e400 forthcoming has around 540bhp.
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Post by Volvo on Jan 6, 2024 18:41:41 GMT
I would say 272hp is slightly above average for a double deck bus. An ADL Enviro400 has 250hp, a Scania N230UD has 230hp, a Volvo B5LH has 240hp. Scania’s certainly don’t feel like they only have 230bhp, they drive like they have about 20000 😂 How incredible that a 9 litre Scania engine only produces 230bph, when most 2 litre engines in cars and vans produce more than that You have to remember that large vehicle engines are more about torque (pulling power and carrying weight) rather than outright speed isn't their number one priority. So ofcourse these engine specs are going to look silly compared to what cars/vans have, for example when you think the 4.5litre engine in a E200MMC produces 180bhp and 650nm (479lb ft) for example a Audi S4/S5 TDI has 344bhp and 700nm (516lb ft) from a 3.0 Turbo V6 Diesel. Back on topic, I do agree after driving the only good Scania SP55 (that I have personally driven as the 10regs for the 79 were utter garbage) that thing felt like it had more than 230bhp and the quoted figures from the Scania website don't do much justice either but I suspect it's just because the 230 versions are heavily detuned rather than the 270 versions being uprated. ADL E400 (Cummins) 6.7ltr 250bhp, 1020nm (752lb ft) N/K230 - 9.3ltr 230bhp, 1050nm (774lb ft) N/K270 - 9.3ltr 270bhp, 1250nm (921lb ft) B9TL 9.4ltr 260bhp, 1100nm (811lb ft) B7TL 7.3ltr 215bhp, 900nm (664lb ft) B7TL 7.3ltr 250bhp, 1100nm (811lb ft) B7RLE 7.1ltr 290bhp, 1200nm (885lb ft) MAN 6.9ltr 220/240bhp, 924nm (682lb ft) These are just a few engines specs for comparison.
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Post by enviro498 on Jan 6, 2024 19:08:49 GMT
I would say 272hp is slightly above average for a double deck bus. An ADL Enviro400 has 250hp, a Scania N230UD has 230hp, a Volvo B5LH has 240hp. They also don't weigh over 13,000kgs unloaded. Do you mean the B5TL has 240? As the B5LH has 400bhp peak performance (240bhp engine + 160bhp motor) then drops to 334bhp continuous (240+94bhp) according to Volvo's specs and the heaviest B5LH I have personally seen is GALs BX14TJV which weighs 12, 450kgs iirc other than that London spec B5LHs are around 1, 000kgs less than that. Also I believe E400Hs are around 280bhp iirc. I bet that if these buse types you mentioned weighed over 13,000kgs with stated horsepower they wouldn't be as quick as they are now (or then). As a driver I certainly notice the difference on any bus from driving it empty to even having a 1/4 load. I also know that despite having 400+ bhp the BCEs have nothing the best VH/ADHs because you can just feel the heaviness behind the BCEs. I don't know what the electroliners have as can't find the information online but I know the BYD E400s have 408bhp, the BYD E200s have 240 and the new Integral ADL electric e400 forthcoming has around 540bhp. That is a fair point about the weight, I forgot that obviously the batteries make the bus much heavier. Even as a passenger I can feel the difference in performance as passenger loadings increase. I see why you think they would be underpowered now as the BYD DDs are only slightly faster than the diesels near me and have much more power. I didn't realise the B5LH has 400hp peak performance, it explains why some of them feel very quick despite the relatively small engine.
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Post by Volvo on Jan 6, 2024 21:53:35 GMT
They also don't weigh over 13,000kgs unloaded. Do you mean the B5TL has 240? As the B5LH has 400bhp peak performance (240bhp engine + 160bhp motor) then drops to 334bhp continuous (240+94bhp) according to Volvo's specs and the heaviest B5LH I have personally seen is GALs BX14TJV which weighs 12, 450kgs iirc other than that London spec B5LHs are around 1, 000kgs less than that. Also I believe E400Hs are around 280bhp iirc. I bet that if these buse types you mentioned weighed over 13,000kgs with stated horsepower they wouldn't be as quick as they are now (or then). As a driver I certainly notice the difference on any bus from driving it empty to even having a 1/4 load. I also know that despite having 400+ bhp the BCEs have nothing the best VH/ADHs because you can just feel the heaviness behind the BCEs. I don't know what the electroliners have as can't find the information online but I know the BYD E400s have 408bhp, the BYD E200s have 240 and the new Integral ADL electric e400 forthcoming has around 540bhp. That is a fair point about the weight, I forgot that obviously the batteries make the bus much heavier. Even as a passenger I can feel the difference in performance as passenger loadings increase. I see why you think they would be underpowered now as the BYD DDs are only slightly faster than the diesels near me and have much more power. I didn't realise the B5LH has 400hp peak performance, it explains why some of them feel very quick despite the relatively small engine. I am telling you especially having driven every single BCE@ BT now, they are almost all different. The best ones are 149-156, 138-148 are not so great and some are just terrible like 139, 140 & 143 which I have had recently. 149-156 are pretty quick (under lighter loads) to get upto 30 but none impress me like a good B5LH, E400H or even a diesel because you still feel all that weight behind the acceleration. When you have rubbish ones like BCE47139, 140, 143 that accelerate like they are in limp mode on a light run, when when you do your service trips, your leg is in pain. Especially trips that leave Colindale towards Winchmore Hill on a school day between 0730 - 0830 as you go up Greyhound Hill & Osidge Lane with a full load, these 3 buses especially are like going to the gym to do leg day. Btw I should have stated the euro 6 B5Lhs have 400, the Euro 5 ones are 375bhp peak performance and then drops to 309bhp continuous. Anyway this is why I'm telling people that when you get a good B5LH they are serious machines and that the E400H isn't faster, the biggest hinderence with the B5LH is the silly i-shift gearbox if they had the same single speed gearbox with the power they do the E400H would never ever stand a chance, especially Euro 6 Vs Euro 6 because in general the Euro 6 B5LHs aew around 400kgs lighter.
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Post by SILENCED on Jan 7, 2024 8:54:16 GMT
I see on buslistsontheweb EMN1-4 are listed as MC950EV rather than MC870EV. Is this correct?
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Post by bustavane on Jan 7, 2024 9:47:49 GMT
I see on buslistsontheweb EMN1-4 are listed as MC950EV rather than MC870EV. Is this correct? Comparing photos of the EMNs with Abellio's 1xxx batches would seem to suggest this is correct - the EMNs have 1 more (small) window bay. I see buslistsontheweb.co.uk give a higher seating capacity (24 to 20). Has anyone done a physical check?
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Post by astock5000 on Jan 7, 2024 22:33:29 GMT
I see on buslistsontheweb EMN1-4 are listed as MC950EV rather than MC870EV. Is this correct? Comparing photos of the EMNs with Abellio's 1xxx batches would seem to suggest this is correct - the EMNs have 1 more (small) window bay. I see buslistsontheweb.co.uk give a higher seating capacity (24 to 20). Has anyone done a physical check? Their window layout on the offside also matches Stagecoach's MC950EVs while BristolRE has a video on YouTube from last month showing the interior of EMN1, where it can be seen to have 24 seats (three pairs each side on the raised rear section, two pairs offside before the steps and three pairs plus a single nearside, and one more single seat immediately behind the cab). I'd therefore agree that all the evidence points to the Arriva batch indeed being MC950EVs.
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Post by ADH45258 on Jan 8, 2024 10:14:45 GMT
Comparing photos of the EMNs with Abellio's 1xxx batches would seem to suggest this is correct - the EMNs have 1 more (small) window bay. I see buslistsontheweb.co.uk give a higher seating capacity (24 to 20). Has anyone done a physical check? Their window layout on the offside also matches Stagecoach's MC950EVs while BristolRE has a video on YouTube from last month showing the interior of EMN1, where it can be seen to have 24 seats (three pairs each side on the raised rear section, two pairs offside before the steps and three pairs plus a single nearside, and one more single seat immediately behind the cab). I'd therefore agree that all the evidence points to the Arriva batch indeed being MC950EVs. Would this make them the same length as the 339's batch?
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Post by vjaska on Jan 8, 2024 12:31:46 GMT
Their window layout on the offside also matches Stagecoach's MC950EVs while BristolRE has a video on YouTube from last month showing the interior of EMN1, where it can be seen to have 24 seats (three pairs each side on the raised rear section, two pairs offside before the steps and three pairs plus a single nearside, and one more single seat immediately behind the cab). I'd therefore agree that all the evidence points to the Arriva batch indeed being MC950EVs. Would this make them the same length as the 339's batch? Yes, the 339 batch is 9.4m
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Post by Dad91 on Jan 9, 2024 6:44:20 GMT
Any updates new BZL Stagecoach London buses for D7 277 276 has any been built yet
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Post by ilovelondonbuses on Jan 10, 2024 20:47:11 GMT
Update 10/01/2024
With the impending rebrand of Abellio London to Transport UK London Bus, I have renamed the Abellio orders section to "Transport UK London Bus (Abellio London)" to reflect the current transition period. The section has been updated with the information of the confirmation of another 80 Wrightbus electric double deck buses (56) and single deck buses (24). In addition, as the operators in my post are alphabetically ordered the Abellio section has moved from the top to under the Sullivan Buses order section.
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Post by DE20106 on Jan 10, 2024 21:10:38 GMT
Update 10/01/2024 With the impending rebrand of Abellio London to Transport UK London Bus, I have renamed the Abellio orders section to "Transport UK London Bus (Abellio London)" to reflect the current transition period. The section has been updated with the information of the confirmation of another 80 Wrightbus electric double deck buses (56) and single deck buses (24). In addition, as the operators in my post are alphabetically ordered the Abellio section has moved from the top to under the Sullivan Buses order section. Do we know the date of the full rebrand when it’s legally known under the new name? Like when we see the new name on tender announcements and on legal lettering on the side of buses etc. Also will it remain under two operating licenses, like how it is Abellio for QB, BC and WL, and Abellio West London for GW, TF and DH? (eg maybe Transport UK and Transport UK west)
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Post by ilovelondonbuses on Jan 10, 2024 22:29:09 GMT
Update 10/01/2024 With the impending rebrand of Abellio London to Transport UK London Bus, I have renamed the Abellio orders section to "Transport UK London Bus (Abellio London)" to reflect the current transition period. The section has been updated with the information of the confirmation of another 80 Wrightbus electric double deck buses (56) and single deck buses (24). In addition, as the operators in my post are alphabetically ordered the Abellio section has moved from the top to under the Sullivan Buses order section. Do we know the date of the full rebrand when it’s legally known under the new name? Like when we see the new name on tender announcements and on legal lettering on the side of buses etc. Also will it remain under two operating licenses, like how it is Abellio for QB, BC and WL, and Abellio West London for GW, TF and DH? (eg maybe Transport UK and Transport UK west) 3rd February 2024 apparently.
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