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Post by SILENCED on Oct 17, 2020 14:09:25 GMT
There must be demand for two routes down Pamisford Road, as there are 2 extra SDO vehicles, plus additional COVID extra working between Purley and West Croydon. Maybe TfL have looked at journey patterns and too many journies would be broken if the 439 was used instead of 166. It is not as though they would have tgeopportunity to change to an additional service to continue there journey either. I've never seen anything to justify two routes along Pampisford Road, it's only busy at school times. Was not that the point of diverting the 405 in the first place, one could not cope on its own? |
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Post by greenboy on Oct 17, 2020 14:19:40 GMT
I've never seen anything to justify two routes along Pampisford Road, it's only busy at school times. Was not that the point of diverting the 405 in the first place, one could not cope on its own? I think it was because of school loadings. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 17, 2020 14:20:49 GMT
The 405 only gets as far as Park Street so the link through to West Croydon would be lost. I think the proposed level of service along Brighton Road is sufficient: x8 min on the 466, x10 min on the 60 and x12 min on the 312 looks plenty. It doesn't seem unreasonable to maintain the current level on Pampisford Road in that context. True but 412 users lost their link to West Croydon. I'm thinking more about 166 users who are likely to be less than impressed with the revised routing and if Brighton Road is over bussed reduce the 466, the x8 minute frequency is a tad excessive. Can’t at all agree with you about the 466. It remains the only bus route where I have been refused entry onto three buses in a row because of Covid restrictions. It is very heavily patronised most of the time I see it, although I will admit I only regularly use the Croydon - Caterham end. |
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Post by greenboy on Oct 17, 2020 14:30:33 GMT
True but 412 users lost their link to West Croydon. I'm thinking more about 166 users who are likely to be less than impressed with the revised routing and if Brighton Road is over bussed reduce the 466, the x8 minute frequency is a tad excessive. Can’t at all agree with you about the 466. It remains the only bus route where I have been refused entry onto three buses in a row because of Covid restrictions. It is very heavily patronised most of the time I see it, although I will admit I only regularly use the Croydon - Caterham end. Was that at school time? |
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Post by LJ17THF on Oct 17, 2020 14:34:48 GMT
I've never seen anything to justify two routes along Pampisford Road, it's only busy at school times. Was not that the point of diverting the 405 in the first place, one could not cope on its own? The 455 is a single decker route, and used to carry loads of people until the 405 was made to go there, and now the 405 seems sufficient. |
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 17, 2020 15:07:54 GMT
Was not that the point of diverting the 405 in the first place, one could not cope on its own? The 455 is a single decker route, and used to carry loads of people until the 405 was made to go there, and now the 405 seems sufficient. If that were the case, why was the 455 not diverted via Brighton Road, or curtailed at that time? So are we saying this is a prime example of TfL being reckless with their finances, and contributing to their current financial predicament? |
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 17, 2020 15:19:11 GMT
Can’t at all agree with you about the 466. It remains the only bus route where I have been refused entry onto three buses in a row because of Covid restrictions. It is very heavily patronised most of the time I see it, although I will admit I only regularly use the Croydon - Caterham end. Was that at school time? About 09:15 - so after most schoolchildren had arrived at school. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 17, 2020 17:45:17 GMT
I've never seen anything to justify two routes along Pampisford Road, it's only busy at school times. Do you have access to TfLs usage and ticketing data? Honestly, he has no clue what he is on about half the time - he thinks Pampisford Road is overbussed whilst also first saying how great it is Brighton Road gets a further increase but then suddenly changes his mind and wants the 466’s frequency cut back. |
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Post by greenboy on Oct 17, 2020 19:04:59 GMT
About 09:15 - so after most schoolchildren had arrived at school. Students seem to roll up to the Oasis Academy at various times of the morning, otherwise that section of route is generally affluent housing, Coulsdon Common and Caterham on the Hill is little more than a village green with a few shops so I can't really see how the current level of service is justified whilst the 166 by comparison is the poor relation. |
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Post by YY13VKP on Oct 17, 2020 19:51:01 GMT
No sadness on the 455 going on my part. Many bad memories of Abellio's awful performance reflective of BC's rather poor period of service which resulted in the loss of the 152, 157 and 455 all at once, three routes they never handled well at all. Some of those Nimbuses really struggled getting up Pampisford Road and made very strange smells. Were those Caetano's that bad? I never really rode them that much so I couldn't really tell, but I saw them struggling from time to time on Warham Road, making some weird noises. However, BC have improved a lot since the loss of the 152, 157 and 455, especially with those fires on the 152 and 157. I can't fault their service on the 109 (except for the people that ride it, they are a real annoyance), and ever since the 407 was converted to DD's it has been much better, especially since those terrible E200's left (although they looked quite smart when they initially came). The Caetano's were awful and felt like a massive downgrade compared to the DWL's they replaced. I only went on one - 8495 back in 2014, the legroom towards the back of the bus was the worst I've ever experienced on a London bus. That, combined with its poor mechanical condition and uncomfortable ride quality was enough to put me off the 455 until Metrobus took over  . On the other hand, the current allocation is lovely! Will be a shame to see the SE's and SOE's go in 2022. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 17, 2020 20:38:12 GMT
About 09:15 - so after most schoolchildren had arrived at school. Students seem to roll up to the Oasis Academy at various times of the morning, otherwise that section of route is generally affluent housing, Coulsdon Common and Caterham on the Hill is little more than a village green with a few shops so I can't really see how the current level of service is justified whilst the 166 by comparison is the poor relation. It is rare I will make a stand on certain things, but believe me, the 466 is consistently busy when I see and use it and it justifies the current frequency. |
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Post by TB123 on Oct 17, 2020 20:51:23 GMT
Students seem to roll up to the Oasis Academy at various times of the morning, otherwise that section of route is generally affluent housing, Coulsdon Common and Caterham on the Hill is little more than a village green with a few shops so I can't really see how the current level of service is justified whilst the 166 by comparison is the poor relation. It is rare I will make a stand on certain things, but believe me, the 466 is consistently busy when I see and use it and it justifies the current frequency. Hear hear. A busy link that definitely warrants 7.5bph |
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Post by YY13VKP on Oct 17, 2020 21:25:09 GMT
It is rare I will make a stand on certain things, but believe me, the 466 is consistently busy when I see and use it and it justifies the current frequency. Hear hear. A busy link that definitely warrants 7.5bph I can vouch for that too, even back in 2014/15 when I was using the route every day it was crying out for a frequency increase which it eventually got. There are so many schools that are served by the 466 too so rightly justifies its current frequency. |
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Post by YY13VKP on Oct 17, 2020 21:30:27 GMT
I can not see what the purpose of the new 439 is - it doesn't link many major destinations and is likely to be infrequent and low-capacity. It also forces the 434 to extend to Caterham, where the 407/443 is likely sufficient, while the 434 routeing - there must be an alternative solution is TFL want to serve both Northwood Avenue and Higher Drive. Waddon Marsh, like the S4, is not a very useful place to terminate, other than being able to change onto Trams. If additional capacity is needed over Purley Way, the 439 is unlikely to make much difference, converting the 289 to DD would be a better solution. If they left the 434 routing as it is and sent the 439 via Higher Drive/Cullesden Road instead, there would be more of a purpose for it as it would then be serving the proposed housing developments on Higher Drive. Currently it's just there to replace the 434 along Northwood Avenue/Oaks Way and potentially taking pressure off the 289 towards Waddon Marsh. I would've suggested extending the route to serve Valley Park or even Beddington/Pollards Hill which could increase ridership. |
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Post by greenboy on Oct 17, 2020 21:49:16 GMT
Hear hear. A busy link that definitely warrants 7.5bph I can vouch for that too, even back in 2014/15 when I was using the route every day it was crying out for a frequency increase which it eventually got. There are so many schools that are served by the 466 too so rightly justifies its current frequency. School loadings shouldn't dictate the frequency 7 days a week. |
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. On the other hand, the current allocation is lovely! Will be a shame to see the SE's and SOE's go in 2022.