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Post by greenboy on Apr 8, 2024 18:50:38 GMT
Obviously it would provide a link from Pampisford Road to Purley Way and would probably be more useful than the rerouted 166. Where is the prospect in that? The driving force behind Pampisford Road's passenger numbers is school traffic; but the 439's purpose is to link residential streets to retail. Besides, the 645 already links it to the Purley Way The network shouldn't be based on school traffic, as mentioned there's little more than playing fields along Purley Way between Collonades and Purley. |
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Post by PGAT on Apr 8, 2024 18:52:24 GMT
Where is the prospect in that? The driving force behind Pampisford Road's passenger numbers is school traffic; but the 439's purpose is to link residential streets to retail. Besides, the 645 already links it to the Purley Way The network shouldn't be based on school traffic, as mentioned there's little more than playing fields along Purley Way between Collonades and Purley. That's a pretty silly opinion to have, especially in this context. Pampisford Road serves 7 schools, so there are hundreds (potentially a thousand) of potential customers. Take that away and you have a residential street that does not justify up to 10bph. Also, as mentioned in my edited post earlier, going directly from the Colonnades to Purley is good actually |
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Post by danorak on Apr 8, 2024 19:27:38 GMT
Think concerns about overbussing Pampisfprd Road in this context are overstated. The 439 is half-hourly at best using small vehicles and there's no evening service. If I lived there, I would want a direct link to what is now the main nearby shops and it's a obvious gap in the network. Obviously it's not happening but the possibility of some redevelopment on the western part of Waddon Way adds weight.
As I think I've mentioned before, when the 289 was originally tendered in the 80s, there was a proposal to run this way.
Anyway I'm out of this one before it gets pointlessly intense.
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Post by greenboy on Apr 8, 2024 19:29:28 GMT
The network shouldn't be based on school traffic, as mentioned there's little more than playing fields along Purley Way between Collonades and Purley. That's a pretty silly opinion to have, especially in this context. Pampisford Road serves 7 schools, so there are hundreds (potentially a thousand) of potential customers. Take that away and you have a residential street that does not justify up to 10bph. Also, as mentioned in my edited post earlier, going directly from the Colonnades to Purley is good actually That's exactly my point, you only need school buses at school times! |
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Post by thekbq14 on Apr 11, 2024 23:06:02 GMT
I've always felt like Purley Way is busier in the northern section then the southern section. So for example I felt like a Streatham - Purley route would have been more useful than a Waddon Marsh - Whyteleafe route, especially as that part of Purley Way is more densely populated, more shops and you do get a lot of people changing at Thornton Heath Pond, plus would help the 109 which is busy in that section to Streatham. But instead the new houses in the Kenley area and linking that directly to Purley Way was prioritised which is fair. Advertising of it has been poor, and the frequency of the route wouldn't help especially with the 289 being DD and getting a frequency increase, so that will still take a lot of the patronage plus it goes further north in Purley Way so will be used more.
I think 439 an extension to Beddington ASDA will work, as there's no direct links from there to the southern part of Purley Way, and also as suggested Pampisford Road for round the corner link, but I'm not sure how busy it will be as it's not a main road it's a residential area and it is walkable through the Playing Fields or Waddon Way which a lot of locals tend to use to get to Purley Way so waiting 30 minutes for a 20 minute walk might not be the best change to do.
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Post by YY13VKP on Apr 21, 2024 23:07:38 GMT
Seen a post on a neighbourhood group from one of the councillors in Kenley regarding the 434's rerouting, that they received an update from TfL last Wednesday. The post says that the only issue that's now preventing the 434's rerouting in Kenley is the sightlines on Wattendon Road. TfL also said they are "working with Croydon Council on this and will provide a further update once they get a timescale for completing the necessary work". Whilst this might take a little while yet, this seems to confirm that TfL will be taking no further action on the other issues raised on the route test, including the junction between Hayes Lane and Park Road (which was health and safety gone mad) and the grass kerbs on Hayes Lane which is good news. Surely the solution now would be to impose double yellow/red lines on those corners on Wattendon Road? The people who park there can surely either park on their driveways (which every house on Wattendon Road has)or find somewhere else to go  . Still optimistic that the 434 could be rerouted by the summer, especially if it's only Wattendon Road that needs to be made suitable for buses. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 22, 2024 11:28:24 GMT
Seen a post on a neighbourhood group from one of the councillors in Kenley regarding the 434's rerouting, that they received an update from TfL last Wednesday. The post says that the only issue that's now preventing the 434's rerouting in Kenley is the sightlines on Wattendon Road. TfL also said they are "working with Croydon Council on this and will provide a further update once they get a timescale for completing the necessary work". Whilst this might take a little while yet, this seems to confirm that TfL will be taking no further action on the other issues raised on the route test, including the junction between Hayes Lane and Park Road (which was health and safety gone mad) and the grass kerbs on Hayes Lane which is good news. Surely the solution now would be to impose double yellow/red lines on those corners on Wattendon Road? The people who park there can surely either park on their driveways (which every house on Wattendon Road has)or find somewhere else to go . Still optimistic that the 434 could be rerouted by the summer, especially if it's only Wattendon Road that needs to be made suitable for buses. It certainly seems to be health and safety gone mad as I got around to doing the 439 at the weekend and that junction really isn’t an issue nor are the longer vehicles either |
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Post by thekbq14 on Apr 23, 2024 17:17:10 GMT
Seen a post on a neighbourhood group from one of the councillors in Kenley regarding the 434's rerouting, that they received an update from TfL last Wednesday. The post says that the only issue that's now preventing the 434's rerouting in Kenley is the sightlines on Wattendon Road. TfL also said they are "working with Croydon Council on this and will provide a further update once they get a timescale for completing the necessary work". Whilst this might take a little while yet, this seems to confirm that TfL will be taking no further action on the other issues raised on the route test, including the junction between Hayes Lane and Park Road (which was health and safety gone mad) and the grass kerbs on Hayes Lane which is good news. Surely the solution now would be to impose double yellow/red lines on those corners on Wattendon Road? The people who park there can surely either park on their driveways (which every house on Wattendon Road has)or find somewhere else to go . Still optimistic that the 434 could be rerouted by the summer, especially if it's only Wattendon Road that needs to be made suitable for buses. It certainly seems to be health and safety gone mad as I got around to doing the 439 at the weekend and that junction really isn’t an issue nor are the longer vehicles either I'm guessing the changes to Health and Safety could be a future issue that is come across if a route is diverted or extended through back streets like the case here. If so tfl will have a harder time fitting their "400m criteria" and also will mean a lot of people missing routes and links closer to them. |
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Post by YY13VKP on Apr 28, 2024 12:06:16 GMT
Seen a post on a neighbourhood group from one of the councillors in Kenley regarding the 434's rerouting, that they received an update from TfL last Wednesday. The post says that the only issue that's now preventing the 434's rerouting in Kenley is the sightlines on Wattendon Road. TfL also said they are "working with Croydon Council on this and will provide a further update once they get a timescale for completing the necessary work". Whilst this might take a little while yet, this seems to confirm that TfL will be taking no further action on the other issues raised on the route test, including the junction between Hayes Lane and Park Road (which was health and safety gone mad) and the grass kerbs on Hayes Lane which is good news. Surely the solution now would be to impose double yellow/red lines on those corners on Wattendon Road? The people who park there can surely either park on their driveways (which every house on Wattendon Road has)or find somewhere else to go . Still optimistic that the 434 could be rerouted by the summer, especially if it's only Wattendon Road that needs to be made suitable for buses. Another update posted in the same group by the local councillors suggest that this issue is now with Croydon Council's Highways and Parking team who are planning to implement parking controls on Wattendon Road. They anticipate that the 434's re routing could take place around mid to late summer, though this all depends on on consultations and approvals taking place. Hoping Croydon Council don't take forever with this process though. |
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Post by YY13VKP on May 22, 2024 21:56:36 GMT
A minor flaw I noticed today in the timetables of both the 434 and 439 is that the 439 heading south towards Whyteleafe seems to run at such an uneven pattern that at some points in the day, they are timed to arrive into Purley High Street/Purley Station at the same time as a 434, sometimes even a 407. For example this afternoon around 17:20, I noticed there was a 407, immediately followed by a 434 and then a 439 2 minutes later. And 6 minutes earlier there was 17:14 train to Caterham. Once the 439 had passed there was a 10 minute gap back to the next 407.
Not the biggest problem in the world given that the Purley to Caterham corridor isn't short of options now (around 9bph - 5 407's, 2 434's and 2 439's within an hour plus a 2tph Southern service). But as a scheduler myself, the current southbound 434 and 439 timetables don't seem very efficient to me especially if they are not designed to arrive at Purley at the same times as each other in one direction. Surely it would be more efficient to create a gap of at least 5 to 15 minutes between the two routes as it sometimes seems to be in the northbound direction?
I just think it would make for a more consistent service with passengers not having long to wait if they missed one or the other from Purley, and would also help to increase patronage on both routes rather than one of the routes taking the lions share of passengers and the other route carrying fresh air. It would also allow people along the 439's Hail and Ride section who lost their direct bus link to Coulsdon with the 434 being taken away to maintain that connection with a guarantee that they will be able to connect onto the other bus and not have to wait longer than 20 minutes between the two.
Of course, this could all be temporary as I would guess the 434 would get a new timetable if the re-routing around Kenley goes ahead this summer (or could be pushed back now that there's an election taking place). It currently has a lot of stand time at both ends that could probably be moved around so that they arrive at Purley Cross within a good gap between 407's and 439's. And there could be other constraints that I may not be aware of that means the service is the way it is currently, but I'm hoping there's some adjustments made once the 434 gets rerouted.
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Post by VMH2537 on May 22, 2024 22:17:58 GMT
A minor flaw I noticed today in the timetables of both the 434 and 439 is that the 439 heading south towards Whyteleafe seems to run at such an uneven pattern that at some points in the day, they are timed to arrive into Purley High Street/Purley Station at the same time as a 434, sometimes even a 407. For example this afternoon around 17:20, I noticed there was a 407, immediately followed by a 434 and then a 439 2 minutes later. And 6 minutes earlier there was 17:14 train to Caterham. Once the 439 had passed there was a 10 minute gap back to the next 407. Not the biggest problem in the world given that the Purley to Caterham corridor isn't short of options now (around 9bph - 5 407's, 2 434's and 2 439's within an hour plus a 2tph Southern service). But as a scheduler myself, the current southbound 434 and 439 timetables don't seem very efficient to me especially if they are not designed to arrive at Purley at the same times as each other in one direction. Surely it would be more efficient to create a gap of at least 5 to 15 minutes between the two routes as it sometimes seems to be in the northbound direction? I just think it would make for a more consistent service with passengers not having long to wait if they missed one or the other from Purley, and would also help to increase patronage on both routes rather than one of the routes taking the lions share of passengers and the other route carrying fresh air. It would also allow people along the 439's Hail and Ride section who lost their direct bus link to Coulsdon with the 434 being taken away to maintain that connection with a guarantee that they will be able to connect onto the other bus and not have to wait longer than 20 minutes between the two. Of course, this could all be temporary as I would guess the 434 would get a new timetable if the re-routing around Kenley goes ahead this summer (or could be pushed back now that there's an election taking place). It currently has a lot of stand time at both ends that could probably be moved around so that they arrive at Purley Cross within a good gap between 407's and 439's. And there could be other constraints that I may not be aware of that means the service is the way it is currently, but I'm hoping there's some adjustments made once the 434 gets rerouted. The problem is TfL qualifies services being coordinated as bunching eachother and are often very hellbent on even spacing services within strategic corridors. The only exception we currently have is the 406/416 between Kingston and Epsom. We've again only seen a reduction in short workings as well the elimination of routes operating as branches arguing on the lines 'it will simply user experience' rather than focusing on service quality as a whole. It just brings unessesery costs and wasted potential rather than having to rely on some people who have a 'certain thinking' this is the way forward. A similar issue can be said regarding the 377/456. Despite both routes ramming themselves during the school run between Highlands School and Enfield Town, services aren't coordinated to be even spaced. On a weird occasion, both routes have a 10/20 minute gap between the hours of 9:00 and 14:00 on weekdays towards Enfield Town. |
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Post by YY13VKP on Jul 20, 2024 13:21:35 GMT
Whilst there’s been no further update on the 434 re-routing, I noticed today that the S4 and 439 stands have finally been separated at Waddon Marsh. The 439 continues to use the stand outside Sainsbury’s while the S4 now stands opposite the TKMaxx on Waddon Marsh.
Really though, both routes should have been made to drop off at the stop opposite Sainsbury’s and then stand where the S4 has been placed now from the start, as that had a lot more room for both cars to pass and buses to stand. But at least the initial problems of having more than two buses stopping there and blocking the crossing has been alleviated.
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Post by YY13VKP on Aug 1, 2024 17:46:02 GMT
An update has been posted by the Kenley Councillors regarding the 434’s rerouting:
Hopefully with all being well, we could see the 434 being rerouted at some point in September.
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Post by YY13VKP on Sept 25, 2024 20:55:59 GMT
There has finally been some movement in implementing parking restrictions which will enable the 434 rerouting to go ahead. Croydon Council are now advertising the parking restrictions which are available to see via The Gazette (which I'll be honest - thought it was the name of a newspaper when I saw it mentioned on the Kenley Councillors website!) www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4707439In short, they are looking to implement double yellow lines on areas on Firs Road and Wattendon Road which have been identified as affecting the drivers line of sight. |
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