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Post by ian on Feb 5, 2021 13:14:02 GMT
These figures make depressing reading, Some routes have lost a million passengers in one year. A curious exception is the 303 which saw an increase. New developments have probably helped that route. Out of zone routes I looked at have dropped, but not as much by some big hitting routes. The 203 still manages to punch over 2 million, however with most of Heathrow closed, I suspect that may change. One Central route which didn’t drop greatly was the C1. I remember when that route was on the verge of extinction. With unemployment on the rise because of covid, this may have a knock on effect. Will we see more people on lower incomes ? Will this fuel bus patronage ? Will electric buses, higher petrol costs, higher general car running... this could in theory be a boost for buses. I’m trying to be optimistic! The 303 had a route change, effectively incorporating parts of the old 305 into one route.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 3, 2021 9:02:29 GMT
How did the 12 & 436 used to get so busy about 8 years back? The 436 drop was down to the reroute, but what happened with the 12?
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 3, 2021 11:49:08 GMT
How did the 12 & 436 used to get so busy about 8 years back? The 436 drop was down to the reroute, but what happened with the 12? People don't necessarily take a bus into the west end anymore. The new demographics of Peckham possibly prefer the southeastern service to LB or Victoria or the LO and Jubilee from Canada Water to reach Central London. Also the cutback to Whitehall for a few months wouldn't have helped either.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 3, 2021 11:58:26 GMT
How did the 12 & 436 used to get so busy about 8 years back? The 436 drop was down to the reroute, but what happened with the 12? People don't necessarily take a bus into the west end anymore. The new demographics of Peckham possibly prefer the southeastern service to LB or Victoria or the LO and Jubilee from Canada Water to reach Central London. Also the cutback to Whitehall for a few months wouldn't have helped either. I think it might be down to the constant roadworks in Central London as well as Whitehall being closed almost every weekend as well as people using the Overground & Jubilee.
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Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on Apr 15, 2021 15:24:22 GMT
Top Route of Single decker: 1. C10 4 887 436 2. 235 4 733 301 3. 195 4 731 490 4. 316 4 710 048 5. W15 4 700 456 6. 200 4 152 818 ( i understand this was before change to DD) 7. 276 4 149 795 8. C11 4 069 182 9. 46 4 046 858 10. 80 4 034 589 What about the 170?
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Post by lonmark on Apr 15, 2021 15:37:43 GMT
What about the 170?
remember it is only 2019-2020.
5 011 318
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Post by capitalomnibus on Apr 15, 2021 21:32:00 GMT
Top Route of Single decker: 1. C10 4 887 436 2. 235 4 733 301 3. 195 4 731 490 4. 316 4 710 048 5. W15 4 700 456 6. 200 4 152 818 ( i understand this was before change to DD) 7. 276 4 149 795 8. C11 4 069 182 9. 46 4 046 858 10. 80 4 034 589 I see the W15 has dropped, I am sure it used to be number 1 some years ago.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 15, 2021 22:56:28 GMT
Top Route of Single decker: 1. C10 4 887 436 2. 235 4 733 301 3. 195 4 731 490 4. 316 4 710 048 5. W15 4 700 456 6. 200 4 152 818 ( i understand this was before change to DD) 7. 276 4 149 795 8. C11 4 069 182 9. 46 4 046 858 10. 80 4 034 589 I see the W15 has dropped, I am sure it used to be number 1 some years ago. The C10 rose due to new developments and I assume Route 195 will rise even more due to Crossrail. Route 316 grew I assume due to Westfield but not sure on Route 235. I wonder whether the W15 dropped due to its poor reliability and overcrowding.
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Post by thesquirrels on Apr 16, 2021 7:26:31 GMT
I see the W15 has dropped, I am sure it used to be number 1 some years ago. The C10 rose due to new developments and I assume Route 195 will rise even more due to Crossrail. Route 316 grew I assume due to Westfield but not sure on Route 235. I wonder whether the W15 dropped due to its poor reliability and overcrowding. I wonder if the improvements made to the LO routes that shadow the W15 (e.g. Hackney to Walthamstow on the Chingford Line, Hackney - Leytonstone via Stratford & central, Leytonstone to Walthamstow on GOBLIN) mean it is beginning to lose passengers to those services? For a direct service the W15 can be painfully slow, and often in standee conditions.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 16, 2021 8:45:34 GMT
The C10 rose due to new developments and I assume Route 195 will rise even more due to Crossrail. Route 316 grew I assume due to Westfield but not sure on Route 235. I wonder whether the W15 dropped due to its poor reliability and overcrowding. I wonder if the improvements made to the LO routes that shadow the W15 (e.g. Hackney to Walthamstow on the Chingford Line, Hackney - Leytonstone via Stratford & central, Leytonstone to Walthamstow on GOBLIN) mean it is beginning to lose passengers to those services? For a direct service the W15 can be painfully slow, and often in standee conditions. It is very weird because the W11 was removed down Palmerston Road and that road was busy patronage wise even with the W15. I am in support of splitting the W15 (which I know is being proposed by TFL themselves) into a Walthamstow to Hackney Central route & a Whipps Cross to Higham Hill route.
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Post by mondraker275 on Apr 18, 2021 9:13:12 GMT
I wonder if the improvements made to the LO routes that shadow the W15 (e.g. Hackney to Walthamstow on the Chingford Line, Hackney - Leytonstone via Stratford & central, Leytonstone to Walthamstow on GOBLIN) mean it is beginning to lose passengers to those services? For a direct service the W15 can be painfully slow, and often in standee conditions. It is very weird because the W11 was removed down Palmerston Road and that road was busy patronage wise even with the W15. I am in support of splitting the W15 (which I know is being proposed by TFL themselves) into a Walthamstow to Hackney Central route & a Whipps Cross to Higham Hill route. I must have missed this plan, can you expand? If I had to mess about with it, I would run the W15 to avoid Whipps Cross, so from Higham Hill to Walthamstow as normal but then follow the N26 route to Hackney. You would then extend the 339 to Whipps Cross as promised. On the W15, I dont think it has lost passengers to the LO, as they are not really parallel and they are better ways to get between Walthamstow and Hackney by bus than the W15 (e.g. 55/56). I think it is a general case of slower journey times and people walking, especially in Walthamstow with the many changes to improve cycling at the expense of road space. It is a big bang idea to both close residential roads and also make main roads with wide cycle lanes. All routes generally have gone down. Whereas C10 has maintained it's level and hence W15 has gone below it rather than C10 going past the W15. Having seen the top 10 list, I have taken 9 of them in the past year except the 36, which oddly I have never taken and so need to see what the fuss is about. Love the 18, always busy but very quick everytime I take it.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 18, 2021 10:15:08 GMT
It is very weird because the W11 was removed down Palmerston Road and that road was busy patronage wise even with the W15. I am in support of splitting the W15 (which I know is being proposed by TFL themselves) into a Walthamstow to Hackney Central route & a Whipps Cross to Higham Hill route. I must have missed this plan, can you expand? If I had to mess about with it, I would run the W15 to avoid Whipps Cross, so from Higham Hill to Walthamstow as normal but then follow the N26 route to Hackney. You would then extend the 339 to Whipps Cross as promised. On the W15, I dont think it has lost passengers to the LO, as they are not really parallel and they are better ways to get between Walthamstow and Hackney by bus than the W15 (e.g. 55/56). I think it is a general case of slower journey times and people walking, especially in Walthamstow with the many changes to improve cycling at the expense of road space. It is a big bang idea to both close residential roads and also make main roads with wide cycle lanes. All routes generally have gone down. Whereas C10 has maintained it's level and hence W15 has gone below it rather than C10 going past the W15. Having seen the top 10 list, I have taken 9 of them in the past year except the 36, which oddly I have never taken and so need to see what the fuss is about. Love the 18, always busy but very quick everytime I take it. I'm really glad I don't go through Waltham Forest anymore unless I use a 123 or anything else - honestly I really feel bad for anyone who has to rely on the bus down there. These schemes are awful and should've never been introduced as all it does is push traffic away from said place and onto the main roads. I suggested the W15 split as more of a benchmark where it was Higham Hill to Whipps Cross & Walthamstow Central to Hackney Town Hall but nonetheless like your idea. I was maybe thinking about the W15 as being operational as it's been mentioned the W14/15 were operated very poorly back in 2012
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 18, 2021 11:35:40 GMT
I must have missed this plan, can you expand? If I had to mess about with it, I would run the W15 to avoid Whipps Cross, so from Higham Hill to Walthamstow as normal but then follow the N26 route to Hackney. You would then extend the 339 to Whipps Cross as promised. On the W15, I dont think it has lost passengers to the LO, as they are not really parallel and they are better ways to get between Walthamstow and Hackney by bus than the W15 (e.g. 55/56). I think it is a general case of slower journey times and people walking, especially in Walthamstow with the many changes to improve cycling at the expense of road space. It is a big bang idea to both close residential roads and also make main roads with wide cycle lanes. All routes generally have gone down. Whereas C10 has maintained it's level and hence W15 has gone below it rather than C10 going past the W15. Having seen the top 10 list, I have taken 9 of them in the past year except the 36, which oddly I have never taken and so need to see what the fuss is about. Love the 18, always busy but very quick everytime I take it. I'm really glad I don't go through Waltham Forest anymore unless I use a 123 or anything else - honestly I really feel bad for anyone who has to rely on the bus down there. These schemes are awful and should've never been introduced as all it does is push traffic away from said place and onto the main roads. I suggested the W15 split as more of a benchmark where it was Higham Hill to Whipps Cross & Walthamstow Central to Hackney Town Hall but nonetheless like your idea. I was maybe thinking about the W15 as being operational as it's been mentioned the W14/15 were operated very poorly back in 2012 Even the 123 is a huge pain between Tottenham Hale and Blackhorse Road, seeing that empty bus lane next to you which is now blocked off for cyclists when not a single cyclist actually uses it half the time.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 18, 2021 12:08:26 GMT
It is very weird because the W11 was removed down Palmerston Road and that road was busy patronage wise even with the W15. I am in support of splitting the W15 (which I know is being proposed by TFL themselves) into a Walthamstow to Hackney Central route & a Whipps Cross to Higham Hill route. I must have missed this plan, can you expand? If I had to mess about with it, I would run the W15 to avoid Whipps Cross, so from Higham Hill to Walthamstow as normal but then follow the N26 route to Hackney. You would then extend the 339 to Whipps Cross as promised. On the W15, I dont think it has lost passengers to the LO, as they are not really parallel and they are better ways to get between Walthamstow and Hackney by bus than the W15 (e.g. 55/56). I think it is a general case of slower journey times and people walking, especially in Walthamstow with the many changes to improve cycling at the expense of road space. It is a big bang idea to both close residential roads and also make main roads with wide cycle lanes. All routes generally have gone down. Whereas C10 has maintained it's level and hence W15 has gone below it rather than C10 going past the W15. Having seen the top 10 list, I have taken 9 of them in the past year except the 36, which oddly I have never taken and so need to see what the fuss is about. Love the 18, always busy but very quick everytime I take it. No one knows the details but a W17 is to be proposed, rumoured as a way of splitting the W15.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Apr 18, 2021 17:01:17 GMT
How did the 12 & 436 used to get so busy about 8 years back? The 436 drop was down to the reroute, but what happened with the 12? People don't necessarily take a bus into the west end anymore. The new demographics of Peckham possibly prefer the southeastern service to LB or Victoria or the LO and Jubilee from Canada Water to reach Central London. Also the cutback to Whitehall for a few months wouldn't have helped either. I'd also say the drop in frequency and the 20mph speed limit in Southwark hasn't helped either with Route 12. Trains from Peckham Rye with the connections to the tube at Canada Water are a lot more attractive than crawling along the streets of Peckham, Camberwell and Walworth. The current trend is for passengers to use buses as feeder routes to tube and rail stations, so I'd suspect it's now being used to get to either Elephant & Castle tube and Peckham Rye. The 36 on the other hand connects with stations including New Cross Gate, Queen's Road Peckham, Oval, Vauxhall, Pimlico, Victoria, Hyde Park Corner, Marble Arch, Paddington, Royal Oak and Queen's Park, so there's plenty of patronage there for each of those stations. 436 will probably see a boost again when the Northern line extension opens.
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