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Post by buspete on Mar 9, 2021 18:45:10 GMT
I believe the 486 followed the 401 as far as Bexleyheath, then follows the current 492 to Dartford.
Hard to imagine that there was also no evening or Sunday buses, so if you wanted to get from Thamesmead to Bexleyheath, you needed to jump the 272 to Plumstead then the 96/122 to Bexleyheath.
Then Bexleyheath was quite a destination for shopping, as there were no Bluewater then and it was the only shopping centre in the area. It was a bit more high end than it is now.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2021 12:03:33 GMT
Thank you - gosh, I remember those timetables! Is there an index to that website? The front page just seems to point to working timetables. This is only right up to 2000's. Wow that site is a goldmine! |
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Post by danorak on Mar 10, 2021 13:29:54 GMT
I believe the 486 followed the 401 as far as Bexleyheath, then follows the current 492 to Dartford. Hard to imagine that there was also no evening or Sunday buses, so if you wanted to get from Thamesmead to Bexleyheath, you needed to jump the 272 to Plumstead then the 96/122 to Bexleyheath. Then Bexleyheath was quite a destination for shopping, as there were no Bluewater then and it was the only shopping centre in the area. It was a bit more high end than it is now. Thamesmead was still developing and I believe didn't gain a service to Bexleyheath until about 1984/5. Shoppers generally went to Woolwich, especially since the Bexleyheath shopping centre didn't open until about 1983. As for no Sunday service, of course there was no Sunday shopping and I don't think the 401 gained one until surprisingly late (1994?). A long term complaint of Thamesmead's early settlers was the poor public transport and it's still lacking in some ways. |
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Post by stuckonthe486 on Mar 10, 2021 14:48:33 GMT
Thank you - gosh, I remember those timetables! Is there an index to that website? The front page just seems to point to working timetables. This is only right up to 2000's. Thank you - that's fascinating and brought back waves of teenage geekiness! I remember being fascinated by these "different" green buses, like the old 492. I'd forgotten where it went on the Kent side, decades on I have now found out what Westminster Mill was... I believe the 486 followed the 401 as far as Bexleyheath, then follows the current 492 to Dartford. Hard to imagine that there was also no evening or Sunday buses, so if you wanted to get from Thamesmead to Bexleyheath, you needed to jump the 272 to Plumstead then the 96/122 to Bexleyheath. Then Bexleyheath was quite a destination for shopping, as there were no Bluewater then and it was the only shopping centre in the area. It was a bit more high end than it is now. Thamesmead was still developing and I believe didn't gain a service to Bexleyheath until about 1984/5. Shoppers generally went to Woolwich, especially since the Bexleyheath shopping centre didn't open until about 1983. As for no Sunday service, of course there was no Sunday shopping and I don't think the 401 gained one until surprisingly late (1994?). A long term complaint of Thamesmead's early settlers was the poor public transport and it's still lacking in some ways. It's interesting how much responsibility for serving Thamesmead during the 80s seemed to fall on London Country - or was that a commercial decision on their part? You can follow, to a small extent, the development of Thamesmead through those old timetables - the last 486 timetable has it ending at the Safeway (now Morrisons) when the "town centre" opened in the mid-80s. Woolwich was a bigger shopping draw until the mid-80s when it lost its big department store, Cuffs, with the Broadway centre in Bexleyheath opening not long after. As you say, Thamesmead still lacks meaningful connections to anywhere but its immediate neighbours- or North Greenwich or Bexleyheath - and is now left hanging on a DLR extension which won't really do that much for existing residents. |
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Post by danorak on Mar 10, 2021 15:20:28 GMT
Thank you - that's fascinating and brought back waves of teenage geekiness! I remember being fascinated by these "different" green buses, like the old 492. I'd forgotten where it went on the Kent side, decades on I have now found out what Westminster Mill was... Thamesmead was still developing and I believe didn't gain a service to Bexleyheath until about 1984/5. Shoppers generally went to Woolwich, especially since the Bexleyheath shopping centre didn't open until about 1983. As for no Sunday service, of course there was no Sunday shopping and I don't think the 401 gained one until surprisingly late (1994?). A long term complaint of Thamesmead's early settlers was the poor public transport and it's still lacking in some ways. It's interesting how much responsibility for serving Thamesmead during the 80s seemed to fall on London Country - or was that a commercial decision on their part? You can follow, to a small extent, the development of Thamesmead through those old timetables - the last 486 timetable has it ending at the Safeway (now Morrisons) when the "town centre" opened in the mid-80s. Woolwich was a bigger shopping draw until the mid-80s when it lost its big department store, Cuffs, with the Broadway centre in Bexleyheath opening not long after. As you say, Thamesmead still lacks meaningful connections to anywhere but its immediate neighbours- or North Greenwich or Bexleyheath - and is now left hanging on a DLR extension which won't really do that much for existing residents. I think it was just an historical quirk of the Central/Country bus split. Routes like the 401 used to go to the old power station at Belvedere and I suppose there was a kind of logic in those exposed North West Kent marshland type operations all sitting together. I remember an extension of the 198a beyond Lower Belvedere to Erith in about 1984 - about the same time they tried running it to Charlton Asda - but it wasn't successful. Remarkable when you think how busy the 229 is now. I should have done my dissertation on Thamesmead: I find its development endlessly fascinating. As for Cuffs, I still have the globe money box I was bought from there as a 5 year old! It currently has 4p in it... |
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Post by stuckonthe486 on Mar 10, 2021 15:53:59 GMT
Thank you - that's fascinating and brought back waves of teenage geekiness! I remember being fascinated by these "different" green buses, like the old 492. I'd forgotten where it went on the Kent side, decades on I have now found out what Westminster Mill was... It's interesting how much responsibility for serving Thamesmead during the 80s seemed to fall on London Country - or was that a commercial decision on their part? You can follow, to a small extent, the development of Thamesmead through those old timetables - the last 486 timetable has it ending at the Safeway (now Morrisons) when the "town centre" opened in the mid-80s. Woolwich was a bigger shopping draw until the mid-80s when it lost its big department store, Cuffs, with the Broadway centre in Bexleyheath opening not long after. As you say, Thamesmead still lacks meaningful connections to anywhere but its immediate neighbours- or North Greenwich or Bexleyheath - and is now left hanging on a DLR extension which won't really do that much for existing residents. I think it was just an historical quirk of the Central/Country bus split. Routes like the 401 used to go to the old power station at Belvedere and I suppose there was a kind of logic in those exposed North West Kent marshland type operations all sitting together. I remember an extension of the 198a beyond Lower Belvedere to Erith in about 1984 - about the same time they tried running it to Charlton Asda - but it wasn't successful. Remarkable when you think how busy the 229 is now. I should have done my dissertation on Thamesmead: I find its development endlessly fascinating. As for Cuffs, I still have the globe money box I was bought from there as a 5 year old! It currently has 4p in it... That's a good point - all that long-gone industry in Erith, Belvedere, Crayford and Dartford. And the mills down the Darent, which is where we came in with the old 492 to Horton Kirby. Ideas to link all those areas up again keep coming and going, but nobody really seems to have the will to do it (or they are all just banking on a Crossrail extension which feels fairly unlikely). |
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Post by buspete on Mar 10, 2021 21:00:47 GMT
Thank you - gosh, I remember those timetables! Is there an index to that website? The front page just seems to point to working timetables. This is only right up to 2000's. Looking at the brilliant link you provided, which is an interesting browse. I didn’t realise there was a daytime service pre 1986 that run from Bexleyheath to Swanley via Joyden’s Wood Estate, I only thought that the 421 went as far a Joyden’s Wood. With the loss of bus route 400/401 which also meant the loss of buses Bexleyheath - Dartford via Bexley and the decline of route 423, many broken links. Not sure if the improved frequency on the B15 then really compensated. |
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Mar 10, 2021 23:09:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2021 23:09:50 GMT
Looking at the brilliant link you provided, which is an interesting browse. I didn’t realise there was a daytime service pre 1986 that run from Bexleyheath to Swanley via Joyden’s Wood Estate, I only thought that the 421 went as far a Joyden’s Wood. With the loss of bus route 400/401 which also meant the loss of buses Bexleyheath - Dartford via Bexleyheath and the decline of route 423, many broken links. Not sure if the improved frequency on the B15 then really compensated. Yeah I was pleasantly surprised to discover the old 421 route on that site. It’s a shame the Bexleyheath to Swanley link was lost, I’ve always thought it would be a handy one to have. At one point circa 1984 the 421 ran to Belvedere and Thamesmead as well. |
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Post by buspete on Mar 12, 2021 1:17:11 GMT
Do we know why the Swanley section got axed?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2021 2:29:26 GMT
Do we know why the Swanley section got axed? The Swanley to Joydens Wood corridor that the 421 served was paralleled by the 423 (that ran onto Dartford rather than Bexleyheath). One route was (and still is) enough for that corridor as much as a connection between Bexleyheath and Swanley would be nice to have. It looks like a decent hourly service in 1981 and then by 1986 it’s gone. |
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Post by lazy_eye_metaphor on Mar 12, 2021 10:24:25 GMT
I believe the 486 followed the 401 as far as Bexleyheath, then follows the current 492 to Dartford. Hard to imagine that there was also no evening or Sunday buses, so if you wanted to get from Thamesmead to Bexleyheath, you needed to jump the 272 to Plumstead then the 96/122 to Bexleyheath. Then Bexleyheath was quite a destination for shopping, as there were no Bluewater then and it was the only shopping centre in the area. It was a bit more high end than it is now. The old 486 followed the current 492 only as far as Crayford, then via Crayford Way and Burnham Road to Dartford. |
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Post by buspete on Mar 13, 2021 22:40:15 GMT
Did the 486 then run up Crayford Way to Barnes Cray, where the 428 runs now? So Crayford Way was served by bus routes 486, 450 and 480. Burnham Road lost its bus service then
Which interestingly Crayford to Dartford is completed over bused, however where the 492 runs along the back streets in the Chastilian Road/Shepherd Lane area is poorly bused. Bexleybus didn’t make any improvement, neither did time unfortunately.
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Post by vjaska on Mar 13, 2021 23:25:14 GMT
Did the 486 then run up Crayford Way to Barnes Cray, where the 428 runs now? So Crayford Way was served by bus routes 486, 450 and 480. Burnham Road lost its bus service then Which interestingly Crayford to Dartford is completed over bused, however where the 492 runs along the back streets in the Chastilian Road/Shepherd Lane area is poorly bused. Bexleybus didn’t make any improvement, neither did time unfortunately. Is Crayford to Dartford really overbussed? I mean the 492 goes a completely different way whilst the 96 is very busy and prone to issues outside the operators control with the 428 providing an adequate fallback unless I'm missing something? |
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Post by beaver14uk on Mar 13, 2021 23:50:48 GMT
No the 486 followed the 492 as now. Burnham Rd was served by the old 492. Did the 486 then run up Crayford Way to Barnes Cray, where the 428 runs now? So Crayford Way was served by bus routes 486, 450 and 480. Burnham Road lost its bus service then Which interestingly Crayford to Dartford is completed over bused, however where the 492 runs along the back streets in the Chastilian Road/Shepherd Lane area is poorly bused. Bexleybus didn’t make any improvement, neither did time unfortunately. |
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Post by buspete on Mar 14, 2021 3:15:44 GMT
I thought it did, but a fellow board member seems to dither. So originally the 492 wouldn’t have served Crayford at all?
There are roughly 12 buses an hour between Crayford and Dartford. Whilst where the 492 serves is only 2 buses an hour, which I would have thought there would be wriggle room for improvement there. Recently there were proposals to terminate the 428 at Crayford.
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