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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 1, 2023 9:00:39 GMT
Unless Susan Hall makes it a front-line policy to review the overpayment of staff within London Underground you'll never ever catch me voting for a Tory. I'd vote for Khan despite his mistakes. I'm assuming you're not affected by ULEZ then? Not directly, but I am still not in support of it. One thing is always for sure is that no matter what, a Tory will always be worse. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 1, 2023 9:01:43 GMT
The reason Emirates fly out of Manchester is so that they can fill planes to their own obscure destinations such as Adelaide, most people would opt for this because flying BA would result in flying down to London, then to Singapore or Doha before connecting onto a flight to Adelaide. Once again Emirates haven't saturated the market out of Manchester simply because they do not have the demand to saturate it. Virgin Atlantic fly to at most 5 destinations in the USA which is peanuts. Orlando is flown because of Virgin Holidays while the rest are flown to provide Delta connections. There isn't anything Manchester has that Heathrow doesn't have on a larger scale. There's not a massive queue of airlines waiting to get into Manchester as the existing airlines cater to the demand that's already present and the demand from there isn't increasing. Manchester fully relies on origin travel and not connecting travel like Heathrow does. The UK unfortunately has its aviation market in the south and the world has adapted to the UK having its aviation market in the South. Refusing to expand Heathrow will do nothing but cause the UK to lose out to the Middle East and European hubs who are catering for what the passengers want. The fact is nobody wants to go to Manchester apart from people who already live there or have a very specific interest in the area such as family. You can expand Manchester but all you will accomplish is a load of wasted money and a very crowded Heathrow because people are not moving away from the airport. You have to do what passengers and airlines want and they only want Heathrow. Countries around the world have worked this out, the UK is yet to work this out and has just been throwing away economic gain as a few people don't want to move out of their houses. What do the passengers want? To fly out of Heathrow. Its why Qatar has 8 flights in a day and Emirates has 6-7 depending on the season. They could set up more at Gatwick but none have shown interest in doing that. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Sept 1, 2023 9:35:55 GMT
Gatwick and Manchester both wouldn't be worth it at all. Airlines don't want to fly to Gatwick, if you expand Gatwick the aim is to alleviate congestion at Heathrow but that won't end up happening because none of the airlines which currently hold Heathrow at capacity will voluntarily move a flight from Heathrow to Gatwick. Airlines such as Emirates and Qatar who fly to both Heathrow and Gatwick pretty much only use Gatwick for any overspill of services that they still very much would like to have at Heathrow. Virgin themselves didn't hesitate at all to move out of Gatwick when they needed to slim their route portfolio down. There's also the argument where if you forcibly move routes then people will move to Gatwick. But it doesn't work like that either. British Airways for example have a route network of flying to Indian cities such as Hyderabad and Chennai where there's no demand to fill an A380 out everyday but you can certainly fill planes if you base them out of Heathrow. Whenever I fly to Chennai I tend to use Emirates for unrelated reasons, but British Airways have to keep a route like that at Heathrow in order to compete with Emirates and Qatar. Move something like that to Gatwick and all that will happen is the passengers for the route will fly on competition instead, which in turn will cause issues for the UK economy as you've now lost people from British Airways who tend to have a higher benefit on the UK economy as opposed to helping the economy in Doha or Dubai. Likewise these routes, and other ones heavily rely on transit passengers funnelling through a single hub airport. British Airways again for their medium demand routes require passengers from North America to help fill planes. If you're flying from Vancouver to Delhi for example you're very likely to pick British Airways if you can transfer in Heathrow without leaving the building, but you'll probably end up flying Air France or Lufthansa if the BA change requires you leaving the airport and applying for a Visa while with Air France or Lufthansa you can easily change in Charles De Gaulle or Frankfurt trouble free. Then you have the issue with Manchester. The demand up north will not be able to sustain any obscure destinations. You need to order planes to match, and baring in mind that even Heathrow relies on foreign traffic to allow BA to serve obscure destinations you stand next to zero chance at Manchester. All that will happen if you expand Manchester is the UK's second airline Emirates will sweep in and start hoovering people up to Dubai instead because British Airways will show completely no interest in a move up north. There's not much incentive for a completely new airline to start up there either as routes which require bilaterals and have caps on the amount of flights are already maxed out by British Airways and Virgin Atlantic. The best solution for Manchester is the one that's already in place where people fly from Manchester to Heathrow with British Airways and change onto a larger plane at Heathrow filled with people from other corners of the world too where they can then continue their journeys. No matter what way you look at it the answer will always and every single time come back to Heathrow expansion as the only option. Expanding another airport is not the answer and while to an outsider it presents the opportunity of new jobs and local development the reality will not be the case. The Airline market is deregulated and airlines are free to do what they want, all you will end up doing is giving Dubai and Doha a massive boost to their own economies and the UK aviation economy will suffer as a result. People need to accept that and stop hindering the UK aviation economy. Dubai and Doha are already giants due to the UK's reluctance to get anything done. In the time it's taken us to even get remotely close to a decision, Doha has completely relocated its old airport to a new one which is said to be among the best in the world, and Dubai has expanded one of their Terminals with a building around the size of LHR Terminal 3. London to Dubai and London to Doha are some of the biggest aviation markets in the world and all that money is leaving the UK economy and heading straight to the Middle East as they're the people who are catering to people's travel needs. If anyone here thinks Heathrow is not the answer, I'd be very interested to hear your views in how you'd persuade private airlines to move their flights to a newly expanded Gatwick or even up North to Manchester. The British government cannot use laws to force specific airlines out, British Airways themselves are Spanish owned and aren't state owned. London's airports are not over capacity, the capacity exists at Stansted if needed. The issue is the capacity is unavailable at Heathrow and that's where everyone wants to fly. Exactly look at British Airways long haul Gatwick routes. Flying to leisure destinations like the Caribbean using very old Boeing 777-200 with no first class. These routes can work from Gatwick you move Washington/Chicago to Gatwick passengers will move to the competition at Heathrow. IAG brand Aer Lingus have a base at Manchester Airport so no reason to put British Airways there. British Airways 777 used are not that old. The ones to the Caribbean do have first class sections. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Sept 1, 2023 9:37:04 GMT
I'm assuming you're not affected by ULEZ then? Not directly, but I am still not in support of it. One thing is always for sure is that no matter what, a Tory will always be worse. And Labour would be 10 times worse  |
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Post by george on Sept 1, 2023 11:03:06 GMT
Exactly look at British Airways long haul Gatwick routes. Flying to leisure destinations like the Caribbean using very old Boeing 777-200 with no first class. These routes can work from Gatwick you move Washington/Chicago to Gatwick passengers will move to the competition at Heathrow. IAG brand Aer Lingus have a base at Manchester Airport so no reason to put British Airways there. British Airways 777 used are not that old. The ones to the Caribbean do have first class sections. On Heathrow routes they do but not Gatwick. The ones at Gatwick are old around 24 years. The club world (business class) also use yin-yang style seating which is really dated now a days. Compared to what the competition is offering. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 1, 2023 11:37:56 GMT
British Airways 777 used are not that old. The ones to the Caribbean do have first class sections. On Heathrow routes they do but not Gatwick. The ones at Gatwick are old around 24 years. The club world (business class) also use yin-yang style seating which is really dated now a days. Compared to what the competition is offering. Even BA's latest offering is a far cry from what Emirates and Qatar offer. I flew a BA A380 last year and then an Emirates one a few months later, not touching BA with a barge pole if Emirates and Qatar also fly to the same place. |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 1, 2023 11:49:49 GMT
What do the passengers want? To fly out of Heathrow. Its why Qatar has 8 flights in a day and Emirates has 6-7 depending on the season. They could set up more at Gatwick but none have shown interest in doing that. Interestingly, everyone I know much prefers to use Gatwick and dislikes Heathrow |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 1, 2023 12:00:44 GMT
To fly out of Heathrow. Its why Qatar has 8 flights in a day and Emirates has 6-7 depending on the season. They could set up more at Gatwick but none have shown interest in doing that. Interestingly, everyone I know much prefers to use Gatwick and dislikes Heathrow Would be a very small minority, if even that. British Airways tried to move a flight to Ghana from Heathrow to Gatwick and it got such bad uproar that the Ghanaian government got involved and threatened to take away BA's landing rights if BA dared move the flight to Gatwick, needless to say BA backed out of that move very quickly. Even EasyJet, Gatwick's biggest airline has been trying to get slots at Heathrow for years and keep getting declined. |
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Post by SILENCED on Sept 1, 2023 12:25:42 GMT
Interestingly, everyone I know much prefers to use Gatwick and dislikes Heathrow Would be a very small minority, if even that. British Airways tried to move a flight to Ghana from Heathrow to Gatwick and it got such bad uproar that the Ghanaian government got involved and threatened to take away BA's landing rights if BA dared move the flight to Gatwick, needless to say BA backed out of that move very quickly. Even EasyJet, Gatwick's biggest airline has been trying to get slots at Heathrow for years and keep getting declined. For me, if I have the option I would use Gatwick purely on the basis that is easier to get to from my location than Heathrow. |
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Post by enviroPB on Sept 1, 2023 12:31:52 GMT
To fly out of Heathrow. Its why Qatar has 8 flights in a day and Emirates has 6-7 depending on the season. They could set up more at Gatwick but none have shown interest in doing that. Interestingly, everyone I know much prefers to use Gatwick and dislikes Heathrow Two terminals instead of 5, a light rail system shuttle between the North and South terminals at no extra cost and easy access to the 24 hour train station downstairs. No brainer in my eyes really! |
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Post by MKAY315 on Sept 1, 2023 12:39:51 GMT
Interestingly, everyone I know much prefers to use Gatwick and dislikes Heathrow Would be a very small minority, if even that. British Airways tried to move a flight to Ghana from Heathrow to Gatwick and it got such bad uproar that the Ghanaian government got involved and threatened to take away BA's landing rights if BA dared move the flight to Gatwick, needless to say BA backed out of that move very quickly. Even EasyJet, Gatwick's biggest airline has been trying to get slots at Heathrow for years and keep getting declined. To add on that they have however added flights to Gatwick to go to Ghana but its only 3 days a week to supplement the flights from Heathrow. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Sept 1, 2023 12:43:06 GMT
Interestingly, everyone I know much prefers to use Gatwick and dislikes Heathrow Would be a very small minority, if even that. British Airways tried to move a flight to Ghana from Heathrow to Gatwick and it got such bad uproar that the Ghanaian government got involved and threatened to take away BA's landing rights if BA dared move the flight to Gatwick, needless to say BA backed out of that move very quickly. Even EasyJet, Gatwick's biggest airline has been trying to get slots at Heathrow for years and keep getting declined. Well there must be a demand for Gatwick to Ghana seeing a BA are to launch a three times a week service for Accra from Gatwick. |
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Post by TB123 on Sept 1, 2023 12:45:51 GMT
All this airport talk.
Here's a novel idea. Build an extra runway at both Heathrow and Gatwick.
Hell make it two at Gatwick with the Northern runway project too.
Couple it with paying for everyone in flight path vicinity to get triple glazing installed, as well as massive investment in supporting public transport infrastructure (Western & Southern Heathrow rail links, HS4Air) and new roads where appropriate.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 1, 2023 12:50:15 GMT
Would be a very small minority, if even that. British Airways tried to move a flight to Ghana from Heathrow to Gatwick and it got such bad uproar that the Ghanaian government got involved and threatened to take away BA's landing rights if BA dared move the flight to Gatwick, needless to say BA backed out of that move very quickly. Even EasyJet, Gatwick's biggest airline has been trying to get slots at Heathrow for years and keep getting declined. Well there must be a demand for Gatwick to Ghana seeing a BA are to launch a three times a week service for Accra from Gatwick. Yes, there's the demand. But all this demand is just demand that can't get into Heathrow. If British Airways could find 3 new slots at Heathrow then I'm sure that's where the flights will be going, but there's other destinations better served from Heathrow. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 1, 2023 12:52:05 GMT
All this airport talk. Here's a novel idea. Build an extra runway at both Heathrow and Gatwick. Hell make it two at Gatwick with the Northern runway project too. Couple it with paying for everyone in flight path vicinity to get triple glazing installed, as well as massive investment in supporting public transport infrastructure (Western & Southern Heathrow rail links, HS4Air) and new roads where appropriate. Will Gatwick need the extra runway if Heathrow gets it? The extra availability at Heathrow will almost certainly be taken up by airlines and destinations currently camped out at Gatwick awaiting availability into Heathrow. |
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