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Post by LondonNorthern on Jun 29, 2021 20:24:14 GMT
Just to be clear, it's the buses that were locked up, not the drivers The ending of service was brutal; London Easylink went into Administration and during the afternoon of 21st August 2002 the liquidator ordered that all drivers were to turf their passengers off on the spot and return directly to the depot, they weren't even allowed to finish their journeys. Blue Triangle was given the job of organising emergency cover and managed to secure a very limited service for the 185 that same afternoon. A wide variety of vehicles and operators could be seen for many weeks until the route was transferred to East Thames Buses, the TfL-owned "operator of last resort" which had been set up following the failure of Harris Bus, in April 2003. That's an interesting point, do we have an operator of last resort at the moment? I know it''s been talked about a lot with the trains but what is TFL's plan if a company goes under? Or is that not so much a worry anymore because you don't have as many small fragile operators around. Sullivan's has lots of destinations on it's stocks blinds due to it's consistent partipication in Rail Replacement Work.
Plus they had blinds for the 11/15/23 on their blinds on some of their older stock (I believe they even had the 42 on VPL174 - was this possibly linked to ETBs demise)?
Anyway those 11/15/23 blinded buses would definitely not be compliant the Lolynes have left Sullivan's and are now scrapped. So to conclude I don't know but Sullivans have got blinds on some of their remaining buses but perhaps it's for tube strikes.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2021 20:27:10 GMT
Another Operator that went was Mitcham Belle It was a long established coach operator that started bus services It started on route 127 (Purley-Tooting) in 1999 with depot in Mitcham Then took on route 200 (but it’s depot was too small so had to expand into Beddington Lane) They also took on 152, then 493 with Nimbuses (although they borrowed some buses from Sovereign and others for a while) They were taken over by Centra in 2004 In 2005 some Centra Heathrow area operations and Surrey routes were sold to Flights Hallmark Centra also had some Surrey routes (from when they took over Thames bus of New Haw in 2003) Centra lost 127 (Dec 2005), K5 (Feb 2006), 152 (April 2006) Then surrendered remaining routes 200, 201, 493 in May 2006 and closed I forget the details but some of the Surrey routes ended up with Wiltax, others with Travel London West (which became Abellio Surrey) From memory the 200 and 201 were taken over by East Thames Buses, but 493 went to Armchair (which became Metroline at Brentford) on an emergency contract as East Thames couldn’t cope with another route. I think their inability to be able to act as Operator of Last Resort was part of the reason for selling East Thames buses to Go Ahead. The 200 contract was reassigned to London General and not East Thames. I believe TfL decided to sell on East Thames as it wasn’t financially viable to run anymore.
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Post by galwhv69 on Jun 29, 2021 20:27:58 GMT
Another Operator that went was Mitcham Belle It was a long established coach operator that started bus services It started on route 127 (Purley-Tooting) in 1999 with depot in Mitcham Then took on route 200 (but it’s depot was too small so had to expand into Beddington Lane) They also took on 152, then 493 with Nimbuses (although they borrowed some buses from Sovereign and others for a while) They were taken over by Centra in 2004 In 2005 some Centra Heathrow area operations and Surrey routes were sold to Flights Hallmark Centra also had some Surrey routes (from when they took over Thames bus of New Haw in 2003) Centra lost 127 (Dec 2005), K5 (Feb 2006), 152 (April 2006) Then surrendered remaining routes 200, 201, 493 in May 2006 and closed I forget the details but some of the Surrey routes ended up with Wiltax, others with Travel London West (which became Abellio Surrey) From memory the 200 and 201 were taken over by East Thames Buses, but 493 went to Armchair (which became Metroline at Brentford) on an emergency contract as East Thames couldn’t cope with another route. I think their inability to be able to act as Operator of Last Resort was part of the reason for selling East Thames buses to Go Ahead. Was the depot that Mitcham Belle used on Streatham Road opposite the northbound Ashbourne Road stop? It was in use until just a few years ago, and has now been turned into housing. From what I remwmber, it was a pretty small space, with some of MBC's coaches often parking on the local roads nearby or under the railway bridge. Definitely couldn't fit much there
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Post by LK65EBO on Jun 29, 2021 20:28:42 GMT
Out of interest what happened to the speculation thread over operators leaving London? Don't know, I will start it again. Don't you think it might have been taken down for a reason?
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Post by galwhv69 on Jun 29, 2021 20:30:26 GMT
That's an interesting point, do we have an operator of last resort at the moment? I know it''s been talked about a lot with the trains but what is TFL's plan if a company goes under? Or is that not so much a worry anymore because you don't have as many small fragile operators around. Sullivan's has lots of destinations on it's stocks blinds due to it's consistent partipication in Rail Replacement Work.
Plus they had blinds for the 11/15/23 on their blinds on some of their older stock (I believe they even had the 42 on VPL174 - was this possibly linked to ETBs demise)?
Anyway those 11/15/23 blinded buses would definitely not be compliant the Lolynes have left Sullivan's and are now scrapped. So to conclude I don't know but Sullivans have got blinds on some of their remaining buses but perhaps it's for tube strikes.
The Central London routes are on quite a few Sullivans buses, including the E's, and they are for film work, which Sullivans often do. They also have some stock destinations for Rail Replacement, however I believe that was more common in the older fleet such as the TPL's
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Post by redexpress on Jun 29, 2021 21:52:27 GMT
Thorpes I liked. DLF125 was probably my favourite dart out of all the batch. DLF41 as well was very unique. Certainly that time was interesting. Single decker 210s & 316s to Neasden. Ealing Community Transport was the only one to use one type of bus (Thorpes is so close by it having one marshall but the rest being darts) Just for anyone interested lots of the 52 plate DLFs at Thorpes ended up at Abellio for the 235 and then moved onto EOS out in Harlow before their demise so don't know where they are now. One of the KX53***s is now with Nu-Venture (there were two) DLF125 was with a company in plain white and was last pictured in the Summer of 2019 outside Barking Station with blank blinds. Some of the Y***JBH batch are now with Transdev Blazefield as trainers. The majority of the early batch did not find work after leaving Thorpes (so the S/W/X reg)
Thorpes had plenty of different bus types over the years, including several types of midibuses, Optare Solos and Optare Excels. Their acquisition of Metropolitan Omnibus also added B6BLEs and Metrobuses as well as those odd ex-Grey Green Volvo B10Ms that had been rebodied as double-deck buses by East Lancs. Several of these types were still in the fleet when they sold out to Metroline.
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Post by redexpress on Jun 29, 2021 22:06:20 GMT
What happened to London Surbuban. I remembered them when they used to operate the 41 and 271 back in the 90s and then they went to MTL which then became present day Metroline. London Suburban Buses was a new operator which took on routes 4 and 271 from London Northern in September 1993; they also won route 41 in January 1994. The 4 and 271 were returned in April 1996 to what by then had become MTL London Northern; and London Suburban Bus decided to close down its operation, the contract for route 41 being reassigned to Leaside Buses from 1st June. MTL London Northern was acquired by Metroline in August 1998. Leaside Buses was rebranded as Arriva London North in the April of that year. That's not quite right. MTL bought the London Suburban operation in April 1995; at first it remained as a separate unit on paper, but was absorbed into MTL London Northern later that year. The 4 and 271 transferred to HT in April 1996. In June 1996 the Edmonton base was closed down, with the 41 being surrendered to Cowie Leaside and the N6 transferring to HT.
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Post by redexpress on Jun 29, 2021 22:12:17 GMT
Just to be clear, it's the buses that were locked up, not the drivers The ending of service was brutal; London Easylink went into Administration and during the afternoon of 21st August 2002 the liquidator ordered that all drivers were to turf their passengers off on the spot and return directly to the depot, they weren't even allowed to finish their journeys. Blue Triangle was given the job of organising emergency cover and managed to secure a very limited service for the 185 that same afternoon. A wide variety of vehicles and operators could be seen for many weeks until the route was transferred to East Thames Buses, the TfL-owned "operator of last resort" which had been set up following the failure of Harris Bus, in April 2003. Whilst liquidators have an important job to do, they also have to remember we are all human including themselves. To stop service immediately, chuck people off buses, leave people at stops is in my view inhuman and not an appropriate way to behave. To quote the old saying ' the unacceptable face of capitalism'. Next time it might be the liquidators wife, children, mother, family etc that is left waiting at the stop! Anyway all in the past and hopefully will never happen again. I agree it was brutal, but IIRC the issue was that the insurance had lapsed, so it would have been illegal to continue to run any sort of service.
I believe one of the consequences of the London Easylink saga was that TfL tightened up their requirements for approval of new operators, so hopefully we won't see a repeat of that.
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Post by redexpress on Jun 29, 2021 22:15:28 GMT
Another Operator that went was Mitcham Belle It was a long established coach operator that started bus services It started on route 127 (Purley-Tooting) in 1999 with depot in Mitcham Then took on route 200 (but it’s depot was too small so had to expand into Beddington Lane) They also took on 152, then 493 with Nimbuses (although they borrowed some buses from Sovereign and others for a while) They were taken over by Centra in 2004 In 2005 some Centra Heathrow area operations and Surrey routes were sold to Flights Hallmark Centra also had some Surrey routes (from when they took over Thames bus of New Haw in 2003) Centra lost 127 (Dec 2005), K5 (Feb 2006), 152 (April 2006) Then surrendered remaining routes 200, 201, 493 in May 2006 and closed I forget the details but some of the Surrey routes ended up with Wiltax, others with Travel London West (which became Abellio Surrey) From memory the 200 and 201 were taken over by East Thames Buses, but 493 went to Armchair (which became Metroline at Brentford) on an emergency contract as East Thames couldn’t cope with another route. I think their inability to be able to act as Operator of Last Resort was part of the reason for selling East Thames buses to Go Ahead. Was the depot that Mitcham Belle used on Streatham Road opposite the northbound Ashbourne Road stop? It was in use until just a few years ago, and has now been turned into housing. From what I remwmber, it was a pretty small space, with some of MBC's coaches often parking on the local roads nearby or under the railway bridge. Definitely couldn't fit much there Yes that's the one. I wonder if it wins the prize for the smallest yard to have operated a London bus route (in the modern era at least). Every time I went past it I was amazed that they managed to fit the 127's allocation in there.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jun 29, 2021 23:25:55 GMT
I remember the bad days of Stagecoach they even left London for a while and then came back. That was the good days of Stagecoach, now is the bad days.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jun 29, 2021 23:26:49 GMT
Just to be clear, it's the buses that were locked up, not the drivers The ending of service was brutal; London Easylink went into Administration and during the afternoon of 21st August 2002 the liquidator ordered that all drivers were to turf their passengers off on the spot and return directly to the depot, they weren't even allowed to finish their journeys. Blue Triangle was given the job of organising emergency cover and managed to secure a very limited service for the 185 that same afternoon. A wide variety of vehicles and operators could be seen for many weeks until the route was transferred to East Thames Buses, the TfL-owned "operator of last resort" which had been set up following the failure of Harris Bus, in April 2003. Whilst liquidators have an important job to do, they also have to remember we are all human including themselves. To stop service immediately, chuck people off buses, leave people at stops is in my view inhuman and not an appropriate way to behave. To quote the old saying ' the unacceptable face of capitalism'. Next time it might be the liquidators wife, children, mother, family etc that is left waiting at the stop! Anyway all in the past and hopefully will never happen again. I would not be surprised it is to do with insurance and many other legal problems why it was done at an abrupt end.
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Post by HA2215 on Jun 29, 2021 23:43:58 GMT
London Surbuban, was owned by MTL, MTL having previously purchased. London Northern, , when MTL lost route 41 to cowie leaside, aka arriva .. the 271 and route 4 left Edmonton and went to HT, i still drove the N6 at EC prior to full closure I know factually as I transferred to HT and was rostered on route 4 .. caused HT midi bus drivers to whine as I didn’t have to go on the C11 W5 etc, even though I did on OT..l HT was a great depot.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 29, 2021 23:50:46 GMT
Not sure what exactly happened, all I know is Crystals sold their Crayford business to Tellings-Golden Miller, and TGM later sold that to Metrobus in 2005, without the Crayford garage. Ah I must thought wrong. Thank you for clear this up! Now I remember what you was saying about that business to TGM then later sold to Metrobus. Got it. Yep indeed as the buses went with it leading to Metrobus having their first Caetano Nimbus & Solos in the TfL side (they already had Caetano’s in the provincial fleet). I actually had my first R2 ride in this period under Metrobus on a Nimbus
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Post by vjaska on Jun 30, 2021 0:00:06 GMT
Another Operator that went was Mitcham Belle It was a long established coach operator that started bus services It started on route 127 (Purley-Tooting) in 1999 with depot in Mitcham Then took on route 200 (but it’s depot was too small so had to expand into Beddington Lane) They also took on 152, then 493 with Nimbuses (although they borrowed some buses from Sovereign and others for a while) They were taken over by Centra in 2004 In 2005 some Centra Heathrow area operations and Surrey routes were sold to Flights Hallmark Centra also had some Surrey routes (from when they took over Thames bus of New Haw in 2003) Centra lost 127 (Dec 2005), K5 (Feb 2006), 152 (April 2006) Then surrendered remaining routes 200, 201, 493 in May 2006 and closed I forget the details but some of the Surrey routes ended up with Wiltax, others with Travel London West (which became Abellio Surrey) From memory the 200 and 201 were taken over by East Thames Buses, but 493 went to Armchair (which became Metroline at Brentford) on an emergency contract as East Thames couldn’t cope with another route. I think their inability to be able to act as Operator of Last Resort was part of the reason for selling East Thames buses to Go Ahead. Was the depot that Mitcham Belle used on Streatham Road opposite the northbound Ashbourne Road stop? It was in use until just a few years ago, and has now been turned into housing. From what I remwmber, it was a pretty small space, with some of MBC's coaches often parking on the local roads nearby or under the railway bridge. Definitely couldn't fit much there Yeah, that’s the one. I actually have much fonder memories of Mitcham Belle having rode the 201 a lot under this period before & after the Herne Hill extension on the nice Pointers and the brilliant early Euro III Nimbus Darts. I also used the coaching side a lot during my youth as my local church would organise day trips on a Sunday to the seaside and Mitcham Belle was always the operator. They stuck with Centra and then resumed under Mitcham Belle when that name returned right up until the trips stopped happening - excellent coach operator with the drivers generally excellent. My favourite coach I rode was a Dennis Javelin simply because it sounds just like a Trident. Does anyone remember Leggs Travel who also ran from the Mitcham Belle base with about 3 or 4 ex London Titans in a yellow livery with a couple of colours? They used to run school stuff both in London & Surrey as they passed through Brixton regularly
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Post by wirewiper on Jun 30, 2021 7:48:20 GMT
London Suburban Buses was a new operator which took on routes 4 and 271 from London Northern in September 1993; they also won route 41 in January 1994. The 4 and 271 were returned in April 1996 to what by then had become MTL London Northern; and London Suburban Bus decided to close down its operation, the contract for route 41 being reassigned to Leaside Buses from 1st June. MTL London Northern was acquired by Metroline in August 1998. Leaside Buses was rebranded as Arriva London North in the April of that year. That's not quite right. MTL bought the London Suburban operation in April 1995; at first it remained as a separate unit on paper, but was absorbed into MTL London Northern later that year. The 4 and 271 transferred to HT in April 1996. In June 1996 the Edmonton base was closed down, with the 41 being surrendered to Cowie Leaside and the N6 transferring to HT. Thank you for clarifying the extra details - I was relying somewhat on my memories of living in North London at the time.
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