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Post by redbus on Dec 14, 2021 13:07:47 GMT
I had hoped that TfL was going to have a long(er)term deal announced, but given that the Government has advised that people should once again work from home where possible and may decide to introduce more restrictions in the near future, it now has a duty to ensure TfL can continue in the interim. I would therefore expect the current funding arrangements to roll over to March. Out of London I would also expect an extension to Bus Service Support Grants and postponement of announcing the results of Bus Improvement Plan grant awards. It seems the Government asked TfL for proposals to raise revenue, and gave them until 4 weeks ago to return the proposals, but TfL didn’t, so deadline got extended. Seems they have been given another extension until Wednesday to suggest revenue raising. The more hair brained schemes of asking for some car VED has been firmly rejected TfL now being tight lipped, but fare increases, reduction of free travel, raising council tax precept are possibly amongst the potential ways to bring in funds. Clearly TfL need the mayor to be realistic (even if it is politically unpopular for him). My guess is Government will not give any serious commitment whilst mayor is not prepared to shift on unpopular ideas, and TfL is stuck in the middle, limping on with short term bailouts. www.gov.uk/government/speeches/interim-extension-of-current-transport-for-london-funding-settlementThe government should fund the loss of fare income due Covid-19, no more, no less. That would leave TfL in much the same situation as if Covid had not happened. One problem here will be how to fund the missing income from those whose lives have changed or are still too scared to use public transport. Certainly there need to be much better marketing of the bus and tube to get passengers back than what there has been to date. If TfL have to raise funds my suggestions are :- - Sorry, but fares will need to increase by say 1% above inflation for the next few years.
- Increase sponsorship, stations, tube lines, bus routes! I can't say I am happy about this, but given the situation, needs must
- Council tax rise. At least those who are less well off will be protected by means of Council tax benefit.
- Tax of say £2 on private hire journeys. If one can afford a private hire vehicle then a small tax should not be too much, particularly given how much congestion these vehicles appear to create. Arguably private hire, scooters, bikes are taking more passengers away from buses and tubes, with subsequent loss of fare income, than from private cars.
- Annual tax of say £100 on all private cars used in London. I don't the country is ready for road charging, so this will do for now.
- Tax on e-scooters and electric bikes use.
TfL costs also need to be reduced with the cost benefit of all schemes properly looked at. Bus priority measures are needed to speed up buses, we need to get bus speeds and journeys back to where they used to be. This will mean reduced costs for TfL as fewer buses will be needed to provide the same service as journey times will be reduced. This will also encourage more passengers so increasing income. Speed limits also need to be reviewed if these are slowing buses and not demonstrably improving safety such as reducing road deaths.
What I would not do is change concessionary fares. The Freedom pass is nationwide and so should apply to London. The 60+ pass should be left alone for two reasons, some of those with passes would go back to their cars as that has to be avoided and secondly this group have been promised their pass and so their passes should not be revoked. I can see an argument to close the door and stop new such passes being issued as part of a Mayoral manifesto, but not removing existing passes. Free child travel should remain. Most child travel is to / from school so would need to be provided anyway. The real impact would be on family leisure travel. Paying for a family trip out for a family of two adults and three children would become much less affordable, and if child fares were charged, the trip may not take place at all depriving TfL of all the income from the trip, never mind increasing it.
I shall now put on my suit of armour and duck whilst everyone disagrees!!!!
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Post by ronnie on Dec 14, 2021 13:15:33 GMT
It seems the Government asked TfL for proposals to raise revenue, and gave them until 4 weeks ago to return the proposals, but TfL didn’t, so deadline got extended. Seems they have been given another extension until Wednesday to suggest revenue raising. The more hair brained schemes of asking for some car VED has been firmly rejected TfL now being tight lipped, but fare increases, reduction of free travel, raising council tax precept are possibly amongst the potential ways to bring in funds. Clearly TfL need the mayor to be realistic (even if it is politically unpopular for him). My guess is Government will not give any serious commitment whilst mayor is not prepared to shift on unpopular ideas, and TfL is stuck in the middle, limping on with short term bailouts. www.gov.uk/government/speeches/interim-extension-of-current-transport-for-london-funding-settlementThe government should fund the loss of fare income due Covid-19, no more, no less. That would leave TfL in much the same situation as if Covid had not happened. One problem here will be how to fund the missing income from those whose lives have changed or are still too scared to use public transport. Certainly there need to be much better marketing of the bus and tube to get passengers back than what there has been to date. If TfL have to raise funds my suggestions are :- - Sorry, but fares will need to increase by say 1% above inflation for the next few years.
- Increase sponsorship, stations, tube lines, bus routes! I can't say I am happy about this, but given the situation, needs must
- Council tax rise. At least those who are less well off will be protected by means of Council tax benefit.
- Tax of say £2 on private hire journeys. If one can afford a private hire vehicle then a small tax should not be too much, particularly given how much congestion these vehicles appear to create. Arguably private hire, scooters, bikes are taking more passengers away from buses and tubes, with subsequent loss of fare income, than from private cars.
- Annual tax of say £100 on all private cars used in London. I don't the country is ready for road charging, so this will do for now.
- Tax on e-scooters and electric bikes use.
TfL costs also need to be reduced with the cost benefit of all schemes properly looked at. Bus priority measures are needed to speed up buses, we need to get bus speeds and journeys back to where they used to be. This will mean reduced costs for TfL as fewer buses will be needed to provide the same service as journey times will be reduced. This will also encourage more passengers so increasing income. Speed limits also need to be reviewed if these are slowing buses and not demonstrably improving safety such as reducing road deaths.
What I would not do is change concessionary fares. The Freedom pass is nationwide and so should apply to London. The 60+ pass should be left alone for two reasons, some of those with passes would go back to their cars as that has to be avoided and secondly this group have been promised their pass and so their passes should not be revoked. I can see an argument to close the door and stop new such passes being issued as part of a Mayoral manifesto, but not removing existing passes. Free child travel should remain. Most child travel is to / from school so would need to be provided anyway. The real impact would be on family leisure travel. Paying for a family trip out for a family of two adults and three children would become much less affordable, and if child fares were charged, the trip may not take place at all depriving TfL of all the income from the trip, never mind increasing it.
I shall now put on my suit of armour and duck whilst everyone disagrees!!!! Partially agree but Why the private car owner / house owner is treated as a cash cow is beyond me I do agree on the bus speed up proposals and the above inflation fare increase. In all honesty if sadiq khan hadn’t gone communist with his no fare increase policy the hole would have been smaller in my view (of course covid blew things away but even before that tfl was struggling to make ends meet)
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Post by southlondon413 on Dec 14, 2021 13:24:41 GMT
The government should fund the loss of fare income due Covid-19, no more, no less. That would leave TfL in much the same situation as if Covid had not happened. One problem here will be how to fund the missing income from those whose lives have changed or are still too scared to use public transport. Certainly there need to be much better marketing of the bus and tube to get passengers back than what there has been to date. If TfL have to raise funds my suggestions are :- - Sorry, but fares will need to increase by say 1% above inflation for the next few years.
- Increase sponsorship, stations, tube lines, bus routes! I can't say I am happy about this, but given the situation, needs must
- Council tax rise. At least those who are less well off will be protected by means of Council tax benefit.
- Tax of say £2 on private hire journeys. If one can afford a private hire vehicle then a small tax should not be too much, particularly given how much congestion these vehicles appear to create. Arguably private hire, scooters, bikes are taking more passengers away from buses and tubes, with subsequent loss of fare income, than from private cars.
- Annual tax of say £100 on all private cars used in London. I don't the country is ready for road charging, so this will do for now.
- Tax on e-scooters and electric bikes use.
TfL costs also need to be reduced with the cost benefit of all schemes properly looked at. Bus priority measures are needed to speed up buses, we need to get bus speeds and journeys back to where they used to be. This will mean reduced costs for TfL as fewer buses will be needed to provide the same service as journey times will be reduced. This will also encourage more passengers so increasing income. Speed limits also need to be reviewed if these are slowing buses and not demonstrably improving safety such as reducing road deaths.
What I would not do is change concessionary fares. The Freedom pass is nationwide and so should apply to London. The 60+ pass should be left alone for two reasons, some of those with passes would go back to their cars as that has to be avoided and secondly this group have been promised their pass and so their passes should not be revoked. I can see an argument to close the door and stop new such passes being issued as part of a Mayoral manifesto, but not removing existing passes. Free child travel should remain. Most child travel is to / from school so would need to be provided anyway. The real impact would be on family leisure travel. Paying for a family trip out for a family of two adults and three children would become much less affordable, and if child fares were charged, the trip may not take place at all depriving TfL of all the income from the trip, never mind increasing it.
I shall now put on my suit of armour and duck whilst everyone disagrees!!!! Partially agree but Why the private car owner / house owner is treated as a cash cow is beyond me I do agree on the bus speed up proposals and the above inflation fare increase. In all honesty if sadiq khan hadn’t gone communist with his no fare increase policy the hole would have been smaller in my view (of course covid blew things away but even before that tfl was struggling to make ends meet) Yeah I don’t agree that council tax should be raised again. It has already been raised by the maximum amount across many boroughs and with the cost of fuel rises, gas/electric rises and general cost of living rises like food this would leave some of us even poorer. Personally I think TfL should trim itself and focus on key areas like the bus network, tube/rail/DLR, private hire and the Woolwich ferry. They should divest the cycle hire out to a private contractor, pass the non-Woolwich boat control to the Port of London Authority and return the road management network to boroughs. It should then be required to take on a private government appointed auditor to fully assess and review its spending and finances to determine where else it can make capital savings. End the culture of public body and have it become accountable to stakeholders and the general public.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 14, 2021 15:32:46 GMT
Partially agree but Why the private car owner / house owner is treated as a cash cow is beyond me I do agree on the bus speed up proposals and the above inflation fare increase. In all honesty if sadiq khan hadn’t gone communist with his no fare increase policy the hole would have been smaller in my view (of course covid blew things away but even before that tfl was struggling to make ends meet) Yeah I don’t agree that council tax should be raised again. It has already been raised by the maximum amount across many boroughs and with the cost of fuel rises, gas/electric rises and general cost of living rises like food this would leave some of us even poorer. Personally I think TfL should trim itself and focus on key areas like the bus network, tube/rail/DLR, private hire and the Woolwich ferry. They should divest the cycle hire out to a private contractor, pass the non-Woolwich boat control to the Port of London Authority and return the road management network to boroughs. It should then be required to take on a private government appointed auditor to fully assess and review its spending and finances to determine where else it can make capital savings. End the culture of public body and have it become accountable to stakeholders and the general public. I agree with giving back the road management side to the boroughs and let the Highway agency take over things like the A40 & A406, some roads haven’t had investment or very little since TfL took over anyway (for example, the Finchley Road corridor from Hendon Way to St John’s Wood still has the same lighting that both Camden & Westminster installed in the 80’s, good for enthusiasts like me but not ideal for a busy road corridor)
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Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on Dec 14, 2021 16:03:22 GMT
It seems the Government asked TfL for proposals to raise revenue, and gave them until 4 weeks ago to return the proposals, but TfL didn’t, so deadline got extended. Seems they have been given another extension until Wednesday to suggest revenue raising. The more hair brained schemes of asking for some car VED has been firmly rejected TfL now being tight lipped, but fare increases, reduction of free travel, raising council tax precept are possibly amongst the potential ways to bring in funds. Clearly TfL need the mayor to be realistic (even if it is politically unpopular for him). My guess is Government will not give any serious commitment whilst mayor is not prepared to shift on unpopular ideas, and TfL is stuck in the middle, limping on with short term bailouts. www.gov.uk/government/speeches/interim-extension-of-current-transport-for-london-funding-settlementThe government should fund the loss of fare income due Covid-19, no more, no less. That would leave TfL in much the same situation as if Covid had not happened. One problem here will be how to fund the missing income from those whose lives have changed or are still too scared to use public transport. Certainly there need to be much better marketing of the bus and tube to get passengers back than what there has been to date. If TfL have to raise funds my suggestions are :- - Sorry, but fares will need to increase by say 1% above inflation for the next few years.
- Increase sponsorship, stations, tube lines, bus routes! I can't say I am happy about this, but given the situation, needs must
- Council tax rise. At least those who are less well off will be protected by means of Council tax benefit.
- Tax of say £2 on private hire journeys. If one can afford a private hire vehicle then a small tax should not be too much, particularly given how much congestion these vehicles appear to create. Arguably private hire, scooters, bikes are taking more passengers away from buses and tubes, with subsequent loss of fare income, than from private cars.
- Annual tax of say £100 on all private cars used in London. I don't the country is ready for road charging, so this will do for now.
- Tax on e-scooters and electric bikes use.
TfL costs also need to be reduced with the cost benefit of all schemes properly looked at. Bus priority measures are needed to speed up buses, we need to get bus speeds and journeys back to where they used to be. This will mean reduced costs for TfL as fewer buses will be needed to provide the same service as journey times will be reduced. This will also encourage more passengers so increasing income. Speed limits also need to be reviewed if these are slowing buses and not demonstrably improving safety such as reducing road deaths.
What I would not do is change concessionary fares. The Freedom pass is nationwide and so should apply to London. The 60+ pass should be left alone for two reasons, some of those with passes would go back to their cars as that has to be avoided and secondly this group have been promised their pass and so their passes should not be revoked. I can see an argument to close the door and stop new such passes being issued as part of a Mayoral manifesto, but not removing existing passes. Free child travel should remain. Most child travel is to / from school so would need to be provided anyway. The real impact would be on family leisure travel. Paying for a family trip out for a family of two adults and three children would become much less affordable, and if child fares were charged, the trip may not take place at all depriving TfL of all the income from the trip, never mind increasing it.
I shall now put on my suit of armour and duck whilst everyone disagrees!!!! Private hire vehicles aren't always the least affordable option. For example, it is cheaper for 2 people to travel via Uber than via the GAL shuttle from POTP to Twickenham Stadium. If you include the return journey, it becomes cheaper for 4 people to all share a Uber than for them to get the bus. Price of GAL shuttle: £3 per person to the stadium, free on return Price of 110: £1.55 (but doesn't necessarily serve the stadium, I think it might bypass it completely on match days) Price of Uber: £5
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Post by redbus on Dec 14, 2021 16:06:10 GMT
The government should fund the loss of fare income due Covid-19, no more, no less. That would leave TfL in much the same situation as if Covid had not happened. One problem here will be how to fund the missing income from those whose lives have changed or are still too scared to use public transport. Certainly there need to be much better marketing of the bus and tube to get passengers back than what there has been to date. If TfL have to raise funds my suggestions are :- - Sorry, but fares will need to increase by say 1% above inflation for the next few years.
- Increase sponsorship, stations, tube lines, bus routes! I can't say I am happy about this, but given the situation, needs must
- Council tax rise. At least those who are less well off will be protected by means of Council tax benefit.
- Tax of say £2 on private hire journeys. If one can afford a private hire vehicle then a small tax should not be too much, particularly given how much congestion these vehicles appear to create. Arguably private hire, scooters, bikes are taking more passengers away from buses and tubes, with subsequent loss of fare income, than from private cars.
- Annual tax of say £100 on all private cars used in London. I don't the country is ready for road charging, so this will do for now.
- Tax on e-scooters and electric bikes use.
TfL costs also need to be reduced with the cost benefit of all schemes properly looked at. Bus priority measures are needed to speed up buses, we need to get bus speeds and journeys back to where they used to be. This will mean reduced costs for TfL as fewer buses will be needed to provide the same service as journey times will be reduced. This will also encourage more passengers so increasing income. Speed limits also need to be reviewed if these are slowing buses and not demonstrably improving safety such as reducing road deaths.
What I would not do is change concessionary fares. The Freedom pass is nationwide and so should apply to London. The 60+ pass should be left alone for two reasons, some of those with passes would go back to their cars as that has to be avoided and secondly this group have been promised their pass and so their passes should not be revoked. I can see an argument to close the door and stop new such passes being issued as part of a Mayoral manifesto, but not removing existing passes. Free child travel should remain. Most child travel is to / from school so would need to be provided anyway. The real impact would be on family leisure travel. Paying for a family trip out for a family of two adults and three children would become much less affordable, and if child fares were charged, the trip may not take place at all depriving TfL of all the income from the trip, never mind increasing it.
I shall now put on my suit of armour and duck whilst everyone disagrees!!!! Partially agree but Why the private car owner / house owner is treated as a cash cow is beyond me I do agree on the bus speed up proposals and the above inflation fare increase. In all honesty if sadiq khan hadn’t gone communist with his no fare increase policy the hole would have been smaller in my view (of course covid blew things away but even before that tfl was struggling to make ends meet) I am not trying to particularly treat a private car owner as a cash cow, but am taking two strands here. Firstly, private cars and also private hire cause a lot of congestion which impacts everyone including buses. If we can have the carrot of better bus and tube services, then paying a little more for the congestion caused I don't think is too terrible. A least worst option. I must confess to being a car owner and I would be up to paying it. Secondly I am trying to spread the cost of running TfL services around and not just inflict the cost via higher fares. In general terms I do think there is a bit of a war on motorists and that should stop. If we are to get motorists onside then they need to be treated fairly. LTNs need to be fair all round for instance. Other examples are CCTV for minor offences which can give the impression of being primarily about raising money. I would argue councils should not receive the fine income from things like CCTV, that would then concentrate minds to have that type of enforcement only where it is needed, for safety reasons for example, and could not give any impression that it is about raising money whatever the truth may be.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 14, 2021 17:31:56 GMT
Partially agree but Why the private car owner / house owner is treated as a cash cow is beyond me I do agree on the bus speed up proposals and the above inflation fare increase. In all honesty if sadiq khan hadn’t gone communist with his no fare increase policy the hole would have been smaller in my view (of course covid blew things away but even before that tfl was struggling to make ends meet) I am not trying to particularly treat a private car owner as a cash cow, but am taking two strands here. Firstly, private cars and also private hire cause a lot of congestion which impacts everyone including buses. If we can have the carrot of better bus and tube services, then paying a little more for the congestion caused I don't think is too terrible. A least worst option. I must confess to being a car owner and I would be up to paying it. Secondly I am trying to spread the cost of running TfL services around and not just inflict the cost via higher fares. In general terms I do think there is a bit of a war on motorists and that should stop. If we are to get motorists onside then they need to be treated fairly. LTNs need to be fair all round for instance. Other examples are CCTV for minor offences which can give the impression of being primarily about raising money. I would argue councils should not receive the fine income from things like CCTV, that would then concentrate minds to have that type of enforcement only where it is needed, for safety reasons for example, and could not give any impression that it is about raising money whatever the truth may be. LTN's need to be straight up removed and I say that as someone who doesn't own a car and has no desire to do so. The people who are pro LTN's regularly distort the conversation by saying only car drivers are against it yet are missing the fact that other effects are caused by it such as creating further congestion on main roads which impacts on buses, particularly if their is no bus lane and creating further pollution for pedestrians and cyclists who have no option but to use these main roads. For example, I walk to work as it's only 10 minutes away yet because Effra Road now has increased congestion (despite Lambeth reporting a reduction which I'm not sure how they've come to the same conclusion), I'm now inhaling even more pollution than before given there are more vehicles and they're idling, going nowhere fast. I'd much rather see something more broader like road pricing be introduced instead.
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Post by wirewiper on Dec 14, 2021 17:46:15 GMT
Private hire vehicles aren't always the least affordable option. For example, it is cheaper for 2 people to travel via Uber than via the GAL shuttle from POTP to Twickenham Stadium. If you include the return journey, it becomes cheaper for 4 people to all share a Uber than for them to get the bus. Price of GAL shuttle: £3 per person to the stadium, free on return Price of 110: £1.55 (but doesn't necessarily serve the stadium, I think it might bypass it completely on match days) Price of Uber: £5Don't you mean: price of Uber £5 plus the inevitable price spike because of demand? Assuming that Uburps can get through all the road closures on match days in the first place - the same road closures that cause the buses to be diverted.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 16, 2021 0:42:42 GMT
It seems the Government asked TfL for proposals to raise revenue, and gave them until 4 weeks ago to return the proposals, but TfL didn’t, so deadline got extended. Seems they have been given another extension until Wednesday to suggest revenue raising. The more hair brained schemes of asking for some car VED has been firmly rejected TfL now being tight lipped, but fare increases, reduction of free travel, raising council tax precept are possibly amongst the potential ways to bring in funds. Clearly TfL need the mayor to be realistic (even if it is politically unpopular for him). My guess is Government will not give any serious commitment whilst mayor is not prepared to shift on unpopular ideas, and TfL is stuck in the middle, limping on with short term bailouts. www.gov.uk/government/speeches/interim-extension-of-current-transport-for-london-funding-settlementThe government should fund the loss of fare income due Covid-19, no more, no less. That would leave TfL in much the same situation as if Covid had not happened. One problem here will be how to fund the missing income from those whose lives have changed or are still too scared to use public transport. Certainly there need to be much better marketing of the bus and tube to get passengers back than what there has been to date. If TfL have to raise funds my suggestions are :- - Sorry, but fares will need to increase by say 1% above inflation for the next few years.
- Increase sponsorship, stations, tube lines, bus routes! I can't say I am happy about this, but given the situation, needs must
- Council tax rise. At least those who are less well off will be protected by means of Council tax benefit.
- Tax of say £2 on private hire journeys. If one can afford a private hire vehicle then a small tax should not be too much, particularly given how much congestion these vehicles appear to create. Arguably private hire, scooters, bikes are taking more passengers away from buses and tubes, with subsequent loss of fare income, than from private cars.
- Annual tax of say £100 on all private cars used in London. I don't the country is ready for road charging, so this will do for now.
- Tax on e-scooters and electric bikes use.
TfL costs also need to be reduced with the cost benefit of all schemes properly looked at. Bus priority measures are needed to speed up buses, we need to get bus speeds and journeys back to where they used to be. This will mean reduced costs for TfL as fewer buses will be needed to provide the same service as journey times will be reduced. This will also encourage more passengers so increasing income. Speed limits also need to be reviewed if these are slowing buses and not demonstrably improving safety such as reducing road deaths.
What I would not do is change concessionary fares. The Freedom pass is nationwide and so should apply to London. The 60+ pass should be left alone for two reasons, some of those with passes would go back to their cars as that has to be avoided and secondly this group have been promised their pass and so their passes should not be revoked. I can see an argument to close the door and stop new such passes being issued as part of a Mayoral manifesto, but not removing existing passes. Free child travel should remain. Most child travel is to / from school so would need to be provided anyway. The real impact would be on family leisure travel. Paying for a family trip out for a family of two adults and three children would become much less affordable, and if child fares were charged, the trip may not take place at all depriving TfL of all the income from the trip, never mind increasing it.
I shall now put on my suit of armour and duck whilst everyone disagrees!!!! You better run, that suit of armour would not protect you from the torpedoes you would be facing. £100 annual tax for all cars in London, seriously!!!
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 16, 2021 0:45:45 GMT
Partially agree but Why the private car owner / house owner is treated as a cash cow is beyond me I do agree on the bus speed up proposals and the above inflation fare increase. In all honesty if sadiq khan hadn’t gone communist with his no fare increase policy the hole would have been smaller in my view (of course covid blew things away but even before that tfl was struggling to make ends meet) I am not trying to particularly treat a private car owner as a cash cow, but am taking two strands here. Firstly, private cars and also private hire cause a lot of congestion which impacts everyone including buses. If we can have the carrot of better bus and tube services, then paying a little more for the congestion caused I don't think is too terrible. A least worst option. I must confess to being a car owner and I would be up to paying it. Secondly I am trying to spread the cost of running TfL services around and not just inflict the cost via higher fares. In general terms I do think there is a bit of a war on motorists and that should stop. If we are to get motorists onside then they need to be treated fairly. LTNs need to be fair all round for instance. Other examples are CCTV for minor offences which can give the impression of being primarily about raising money. I would argue councils should not receive the fine income from things like CCTV, that would then concentrate minds to have that type of enforcement only where it is needed, for safety reasons for example, and could not give any impression that it is about raising money whatever the truth may be. The local councils and the never ending stupid roadworks with temporary traffic lights are the biggest causes of congestion in London. If they would not stop interfering needlessly we may have a better road network
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Post by redbus on Dec 16, 2021 13:42:10 GMT
The government should fund the loss of fare income due Covid-19, no more, no less. That would leave TfL in much the same situation as if Covid had not happened. One problem here will be how to fund the missing income from those whose lives have changed or are still too scared to use public transport. Certainly there need to be much better marketing of the bus and tube to get passengers back than what there has been to date. If TfL have to raise funds my suggestions are :- - Sorry, but fares will need to increase by say 1% above inflation for the next few years.
- Increase sponsorship, stations, tube lines, bus routes! I can't say I am happy about this, but given the situation, needs must
- Council tax rise. At least those who are less well off will be protected by means of Council tax benefit.
- Tax of say £2 on private hire journeys. If one can afford a private hire vehicle then a small tax should not be too much, particularly given how much congestion these vehicles appear to create. Arguably private hire, scooters, bikes are taking more passengers away from buses and tubes, with subsequent loss of fare income, than from private cars.
- Annual tax of say £100 on all private cars used in London. I don't the country is ready for road charging, so this will do for now.
- Tax on e-scooters and electric bikes use.
TfL costs also need to be reduced with the cost benefit of all schemes properly looked at. Bus priority measures are needed to speed up buses, we need to get bus speeds and journeys back to where they used to be. This will mean reduced costs for TfL as fewer buses will be needed to provide the same service as journey times will be reduced. This will also encourage more passengers so increasing income. Speed limits also need to be reviewed if these are slowing buses and not demonstrably improving safety such as reducing road deaths.
What I would not do is change concessionary fares. The Freedom pass is nationwide and so should apply to London. The 60+ pass should be left alone for two reasons, some of those with passes would go back to their cars as that has to be avoided and secondly this group have been promised their pass and so their passes should not be revoked. I can see an argument to close the door and stop new such passes being issued as part of a Mayoral manifesto, but not removing existing passes. Free child travel should remain. Most child travel is to / from school so would need to be provided anyway. The real impact would be on family leisure travel. Paying for a family trip out for a family of two adults and three children would become much less affordable, and if child fares were charged, the trip may not take place at all depriving TfL of all the income from the trip, never mind increasing it.
I shall now put on my suit of armour and duck whilst everyone disagrees!!!! You better run, that suit of armour would not protect you from the torpedoes you would be facing. £100 annual tax for all cars in London, seriously!!! We have to pay for TfL somehow. I am open to all reasonable ideas. Interestingly there is only so much the Mayor can do without a change to the law, so you are safe from this idea! I did however permit myself a smile after the Mayor's press release yesterday. Fares up by 1% over inflation, council tax on the up - these being the only two things above the Mayor can do without a law change. As for the 60+ pass, this will go over time, but not impacting those who already have the pass. Interesting times.
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Post by evergreenadam on Dec 18, 2021 11:32:56 GMT
You better run, that suit of armour would not protect you from the torpedoes you would be facing. £100 annual tax for all cars in London, seriously!!! We have to pay for TfL somehow. I am open to all reasonable ideas. Interestingly there is only so much the Mayor can do without a change to the law, so you are safe from this idea! I did however permit myself a smile after the Mayor's press release yesterday. Fares up by 1% over inflation, council tax on the up - these being the only two things above the Mayor can do without a law change. As for the 60+ pass, this will go over time, but not impacting those who already have the pass. Interesting times. I consider that the 60+ pass is unsustainable and smacks of inter generational unfairness. Pre-pandemic my older and more experienced colleagues who owned their own homes used it to commute by tube to work to their full time well paid jobs in Central London. Particularly galling for younger and lower paid employees who couldn’t afford to get on the property ladder, had student debt to pay off and who were subsidising it. If people are below retirement age and still working they really shouldn’t have access to such a valuable benefit.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 18, 2021 12:21:10 GMT
We have to pay for TfL somehow. I am open to all reasonable ideas. Interestingly there is only so much the Mayor can do without a change to the law, so you are safe from this idea! I did however permit myself a smile after the Mayor's press release yesterday. Fares up by 1% over inflation, council tax on the up - these being the only two things above the Mayor can do without a law change. As for the 60+ pass, this will go over time, but not impacting those who already have the pass. Interesting times. I consider that the 60+ pass is unsustainable and smacks of inter generational unfairness. Pre-pandemic my older and more experienced colleagues who owned their own homes used it to commute by tube to work to their full time well paid jobs in Central London. Particularly galling for younger and lower paid employees who couldn’t afford to get on the property ladder, had student debt to pay off and who were subsidising it. If people are below retirement age and still working they really shouldn’t have access to such a valuable benefit. I think Khan was spiteful in planning to axe the over 60's for one reason, it was a Boris policy when he was mayor of London. It is a joke that the way you portray that all pensioners are loaded because they have jobs in central London. It may be a small amount. But then the same we can say about students. Some of them can be from well off families and getting free travel when they do not need it. People here love to go on about Europe or Holland etc for things. But on the continent many countries do not have the many free travel concessions we have accumulated over the years in London on so many sectors.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 18, 2021 12:24:20 GMT
I consider that the 60+ pass is unsustainable and smacks of inter generational unfairness. Pre-pandemic my older and more experienced colleagues who owned their own homes used it to commute by tube to work to their full time well paid jobs in Central London. Particularly galling for younger and lower paid employees who couldn’t afford to get on the property ladder, had student debt to pay off and who were subsidising it. If people are below retirement age and still working they really shouldn’t have access to such a valuable benefit. I think Khan was spiteful in planning to axe the over 60's for one reason, it was a Boris policy when he was mayor of London. It is a joke that the way you portray that all pensioners are loaded because they have jobs in central London. It may be a small amount. But then the same we can say about students. Some of them can be from well off families and getting free travel when they do not need it. People here love to go on about Europe or Holland etc for things. But on the continent many countries do not have the many free travel concessions we have accumulated over the years in London on so many sectors. Students get a 30% discount, the 60-65 bracket are working individuals, what makes them different to the bracket of 18-59?
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Post by ianhardy on Dec 18, 2021 17:28:35 GMT
It seems the Government asked TfL for proposals to raise revenue, and gave them until 4 weeks ago to return the proposals, but TfL didn’t, so deadline got extended. Seems they have been given another extension until Wednesday to suggest revenue raising. The more hair brained schemes of asking for some car VED has been firmly rejected TfL now being tight lipped, but fare increases, reduction of free travel, raising council tax precept are possibly amongst the potential ways to bring in funds. Clearly TfL need the mayor to be realistic (even if it is politically unpopular for him). My guess is Government will not give any serious commitment whilst mayor is not prepared to shift on unpopular ideas, and TfL is stuck in the middle, limping on with short term bailouts. www.gov.uk/government/speeches/interim-extension-of-current-transport-for-london-funding-settlementThe government should fund the loss of fare income due Covid-19, no more, no less. That would leave TfL in much the same situation as if Covid had not happened. One problem here will be how to fund the missing income from those whose lives have changed or are still too scared to use public transport. Certainly there need to be much better marketing of the bus and tube to get passengers back than what there has been to date. If TfL have to raise funds my suggestions are :- - Sorry, but fares will need to increase by say 1% above inflation for the next few years.
- Increase sponsorship, stations, tube lines, bus routes! I can't say I am happy about this, but given the situation, needs must
- Council tax rise. At least those who are less well off will be protected by means of Council tax benefit.
- Tax of say £2 on private hire journeys. If one can afford a private hire vehicle then a small tax should not be too much, particularly given how much congestion these vehicles appear to create. Arguably private hire, scooters, bikes are taking more passengers away from buses and tubes, with subsequent loss of fare income, than from private cars.
- Annual tax of say £100 on all private cars used in London. I don't the country is ready for road charging, so this will do for now.
- Tax on e-scooters and electric bikes use.
TfL costs also need to be reduced with the cost benefit of all schemes properly looked at. Bus priority measures are needed to speed up buses, we need to get bus speeds and journeys back to where they used to be. This will mean reduced costs for TfL as fewer buses will be needed to provide the same service as journey times will be reduced. This will also encourage more passengers so increasing income. Speed limits also need to be reviewed if these are slowing buses and not demonstrably improving safety such as reducing road deaths.
What I would not do is change concessionary fares. The Freedom pass is nationwide and so should apply to London. The 60+ pass should be left alone for two reasons, some of those with passes would go back to their cars as that has to be avoided and secondly this group have been promised their pass and so their passes should not be revoked. I can see an argument to close the door and stop new such passes being issued as part of a Mayoral manifesto, but not removing existing passes. Free child travel should remain. Most child travel is to / from school so would need to be provided anyway. The real impact would be on family leisure travel. Paying for a family trip out for a family of two adults and three children would become much less affordable, and if child fares were charged, the trip may not take place at all depriving TfL of all the income from the trip, never mind increasing it.
I shall now put on my suit of armour and duck whilst everyone disagrees!!!!
The problem with the concessionary fares is that the Freedom Pass's benefit are NOT nationwide, the London pass is a lot better value as everywhere else in the country, the Pensioner's pass is only valid after 09:00 / 09:30 and is only valid on local buses, it not valid on rail services. Also you only get it at pension age, so 60+ pass is a London only thing. So make the Freedom pass like everywhere else and not be valid before 09:30 and only on the buses. If the 60+ pass remains, only issue it to people who have retired, why should people who are earning £30,000+ a year get free travel to and from work?
With Free Child Fares, outside of London the only journeys that are free are where the nearest school is more than x miles away from where the person lives (note it is "the nearest school" not the one 10 miles away just because it's OFSTED results are better than the school that is next door to where the child lives). We have an obesity problem with the UK, why because people don't walk anymore, and in London they get free bus travel so they don't have to. So by removing the ZIT card this would do two things, improve the fitness of the darlings and reduce the number of them that use the bus just to go 3 or 4 stops.
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