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Post by greenboy on Aug 15, 2021 21:10:06 GMT
Credit to the locals for putting up a fight to save their bus service. It’s just such a non sensical thing to do. Cutting those three stops saves maybe five minutes on the journey but will cause massive inconvenience to those people relying on getting the R7 to and from those stops. Surely TfL should be encouraging the use of public transport? Take the example of the gentleman in the news report (nice bloke actually, one of the regular passengers) - walking along narrow country lanes for 30-40 minutes simply isn’t an option for him. He’s going to be forced into using the car, be it a private car or a cab - which adds to the considerable congestion already present in Orpington I really hope the depth of feeling that comes across in the news report is transmitted to TfL and they decide to not go ahead with this scheme - there are far more places where savings can be made I agree it's ridiculous, all this just to make what would be fairly minimal savings, there are plenty of other places cuts can be made and few people would even notice the difference. |
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Post by uakari on Aug 27, 2021 14:43:56 GMT
Just a reminder that this is the last day you can respond to this consultation. Either complete the survey at haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/bus-route-r7 or email haveyoursay@tfl.gov.uk I agree about the shockingly bad EqIA: just don't do one if you're doing to do one so dramatically terrible. No basic acknowledgement that walking or using a wheelchair for more than 1km along windy roads with no pavement is of course going to have a disproportionately negative impact on the elderly and disabled groups. No alternative options identified? How about running some of the buses via those roads and not others (lower the frequency), or diverting a different route such as the R2 there? |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 27, 2021 15:21:19 GMT
Just a reminder that this is the last day you can respond to this consultation. Either complete the survey at haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/bus-route-r7 or email haveyoursay@tfl.gov.uk I agree about the shockingly bad EqIA: just don't do one if you're doing to do one so dramatically terrible. No basic acknowledgement that walking or using a wheelchair for more than 1km along windy roads with no pavement is of course going to have a disproportionately negative impact on the elderly and disabled groups. No alternative options identified? How about running some of the buses via those roads and not others (lower the frequency), or diverting a different route such as the R2 there? I agree with the lower frequency point, I think picking out the most popular times for buses to serve the loop would be ideal |
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Post by lonmark on Nov 2, 2021 9:41:59 GMT
TfL still hasn't decided whatever to a short part of the section in Chesfield Village yet. It was meant to be made a decision to go ahead for this Saturday 6th November!
I guess TfL still working on this project at the moment.
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Post by wirewiper on Nov 2, 2021 10:04:11 GMT
TfL still hasn't decided whatever to a short part of the section in Chesfield Village yet. It was meant to be made a decision to go ahead for this Saturday 6th November! I guess TfL still working on this project at the moment. I gather the proposal attracted a lot of negative feedback so TfL has either gone back to the drawing board or quietly dropped the idea. |
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Post by uakari on Nov 3, 2021 3:23:25 GMT
TfL still hasn't decided whatever to a short part of the section in Chesfield Village yet. It was meant to be made a decision to go ahead for this Saturday 6th November! I guess TfL still working on this project at the moment. I gather the proposal attracted a lot of negative feedback so TfL has either gone back to the drawing board or quietly dropped the idea. Their strategy for the 384 (which also attracted a lot of negative feedback) was to kick the proposal into the long grass and then decide to go ahead with it a year and a half later when they hoped c everyone would have forgotten about it (in that case publishing the decision at the height of the second Covid wave). So I expect something similar will happen here. Once they decide on a cut, the consultation process is just a hurdle for them - they don't actually care about or take into account any of the feedback, as can be seen in the recent 384 review where most of what people objected to is not even mentioned. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 3, 2021 8:33:35 GMT
I gather the proposal attracted a lot of negative feedback so TfL has either gone back to the drawing board or quietly dropped the idea. Their strategy for the 384 (which also attracted a lot of negative feedback) was to kick the proposal into the long grass and then decide to go ahead with it a year and a half later when they hoped c everyone would have forgotten about it (in that case publishing the decision at the height of the second Covid wave). So I expect something similar will happen here. Once they decide on a cut, the consultation process is just a hurdle for them - they don't actually care about or take into account any of the feedback, as can be seen in the recent 384 review where most of what people objected to is not even mentioned. Tfl don't have to listen to the feedback anyways. It's not a referendum. |
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Post by vjaska on Nov 3, 2021 12:36:49 GMT
Their strategy for the 384 (which also attracted a lot of negative feedback) was to kick the proposal into the long grass and then decide to go ahead with it a year and a half later when they hoped c everyone would have forgotten about it (in that case publishing the decision at the height of the second Covid wave). So I expect something similar will happen here. Once they decide on a cut, the consultation process is just a hurdle for them - they don't actually care about or take into account any of the feedback, as can be seen in the recent 384 review where most of what people objected to is not even mentioned. Tfl don't have to listen to the feedback anyways. It's not a referendum. Defeats the purpose of a consultation then. |
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Post by uakari on Nov 3, 2021 16:06:00 GMT
Their strategy for the 384 (which also attracted a lot of negative feedback) was to kick the proposal into the long grass and then decide to go ahead with it a year and a half later when they hoped c everyone would have forgotten about it (in that case publishing the decision at the height of the second Covid wave). So I expect something similar will happen here. Once they decide on a cut, the consultation process is just a hurdle for them - they don't actually care about or take into account any of the feedback, as can be seen in the recent 384 review where most of what people objected to is not even mentioned. Tfl don't have to listen to the feedback anyways. It's not a referendum. Why bother to consult at all then? Just to pretend they care about what people think and waste everyone's time, then create more bad blood when they do what they want anyway? They are already much more unaccountable than even central government. The Mayor is the only elected official with any power over them - the assembly is toothless and then you just have ignorant unelected bureaucrats like Heidi Alexander. So they should really be careful they don't pee the travelling public off too much or we might decide to take back control one of these days. |
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Post by greenboy on Nov 3, 2021 16:48:59 GMT
Tfl don't have to listen to the feedback anyways. It's not a referendum. Why bother to consult at all then? Just to pretend they care about what people think and waste everyone's time, then create more bad blood when they do what they want anyway? They are already much more unaccountable than even central government. The Mayor is the only elected official with any power over them - the assembly is toothless and then you just have ignorant unelected bureaucrats like Heidi Alexander. So they should really be careful they don't pee the travelling public off too much or we might decide to take back control one of these days. I've long since wondered what the point of consultations is, less than 1,000 responded to the Croydon and Sutton proposals suggesting that the vast majority of people either aren't aware of them or they're just not interested. Having said that I suspect there will have been a lot of opposition to the R7 proposal which would cause a lot of pain for very little gain. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Nov 3, 2021 16:56:15 GMT
Why bother to consult at all then? Just to pretend they care about what people think and waste everyone's time, then create more bad blood when they do what they want anyway? They are already much more unaccountable than even central government. The Mayor is the only elected official with any power over them - the assembly is toothless and then you just have ignorant unelected bureaucrats like Heidi Alexander. So they should really be careful they don't pee the travelling public off too much or we might decide to take back control one of these days. I've long since wondered what the point of consultations is, less than 1,000 responded to the Croydon and Sutton proposals suggesting that the vast majority of people either aren't aware of them or they're just not interested. Having said that I suspect there will have been a lot of opposition to the R7 proposal which would cause a lot of pain for very little gain. Unfortunately unless there is a change to the law public bodies like TfL are required to consult on any structural transport changes like route restructuring or extensions. It’s a good system in my opinion as it allows for stakeholders like councils to be involved to an extent. I do wish that the process didn’t take as long though for relatively small things like the change to the 633. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Nov 3, 2021 16:56:25 GMT
Why bother to consult at all then? Just to pretend they care about what people think and waste everyone's time, then create more bad blood when they do what they want anyway? They are already much more unaccountable than even central government. The Mayor is the only elected official with any power over them - the assembly is toothless and then you just have ignorant unelected bureaucrats like Heidi Alexander. So they should really be careful they don't pee the travelling public off too much or we might decide to take back control one of these days. I've long since wondered what the point of consultations is, less than 1,000 responded to the Croydon and Sutton proposals suggesting that the vast majority of people either aren't aware of them or they're just not interested. Having said that I suspect there will have been a lot of opposition to the R7 proposal which would cause a lot of pain for very little gain. I suppose this is also the problem with standardisation in some instances. Surely every other bus could be curtailed to Chelsfield Hospital with perhaps an hourly service down via Maypole, even if at only certain times of the day rather than doing away with it as a whole?
I must say I liked it when TFL used to send people out onto buses to get their opinions on routes they're reviewing (got asked about the H3 in around 2015) because you get more opinions and I've never filled out a consultation even though I feel passionately about certain route cutbacks (19, 384) because they take ages and TFL don't tend to always listen.
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Post by greenboy on Nov 3, 2021 17:02:37 GMT
I've long since wondered what the point of consultations is, less than 1,000 responded to the Croydon and Sutton proposals suggesting that the vast majority of people either aren't aware of them or they're just not interested. Having said that I suspect there will have been a lot of opposition to the R7 proposal which would cause a lot of pain for very little gain. I suppose this is also the problem with standardisation in some instances. Surely every other bus could be curtailed to Chelsfield Hospital with perhaps an hourly service down via Maypole, even if at only certain times of the day rather than doing away with it as a whole?
I must say I liked it when TFL used to send people out onto buses to get their opinions on routes they're reviewing (got asked about the H3 in around 2015) because you get more opinions and I've never filled out a consultation even though I feel passionately about certain route cutbacks (19, 384) because they take ages and TFL don't tend to always listen.
Yes, somebody on the bus with a clipboard would probably get a more accurate picture and I agree that standardisation has gone way too far. |
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Post by greenboy on Nov 3, 2021 17:04:31 GMT
I've long since wondered what the point of consultations is, less than 1,000 responded to the Croydon and Sutton proposals suggesting that the vast majority of people either aren't aware of them or they're just not interested. Having said that I suspect there will have been a lot of opposition to the R7 proposal which would cause a lot of pain for very little gain. Unfortunately unless there is a change to the law public bodies like TfL are required to consult on any structural transport changes like route restructuring or extensions. It’s a good system in my opinion as it allows for stakeholders like councils to be involved to an extent. I do wish that the process didn’t take as long though for relatively small things like the change to the 633. Yes I understand what you're saying but in reality it's just another level of bureaucracy. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Nov 3, 2021 17:09:59 GMT
Unfortunately unless there is a change to the law public bodies like TfL are required to consult on any structural transport changes like route restructuring or extensions. It’s a good system in my opinion as it allows for stakeholders like councils to be involved to an extent. I do wish that the process didn’t take as long though for relatively small things like the change to the 633. Yes I understand what you're saying but in reality it's just another level of bureaucracy. But how else would you hold TfL responsible if they withdrew your local route tomorrow without discussion or an opportunity for reprise if not through a consultation program? Routes like the 19 were saved from cuts in recent times because the process highlighted the withdrawal and I’m sure when it comes round to the expected Autumn 2022 cuts we will see local politicians leading calls to save their local routes because of the consultation process. |
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