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Post by northlondon83 on Mar 4, 2023 14:12:20 GMT
Extend route 116 to Heathrow Terminal 5 via Stanwell. I would imagine there would be a reasonable level of demand for a TfL service between Stanwell and Terminal 5 given the lower fares than the non-TfL operators. It might stand a chance of paying for itself. Whilst I like the idea of the proposal, I don't think tfl would fund an extension outside London. Especially considering that there's the hopper fare, they would advise Ashford residents to change at Feltham for the 490 |
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Post by cardinal on Mar 4, 2023 14:16:11 GMT
Extend route 116 to Heathrow Terminal 5 via Stanwell. I would imagine there would be a reasonable level of demand for a TfL service between Stanwell and Terminal 5 given the lower fares than the non-TfL operators. It might stand a chance of paying for itself. Stanwell residents already have the Carlone Buses 442 and Diamond Bus 555 to get them to and from the Airport. TfL's remit does not extend to undercutting existing services outside the Greater London area. I don’t disagree with you because TfL shouldn’t take passengers away from those services. However the counter argument would be the existing network already does just that. 216 mirrors the 555 Sunbury Village to Ashford Hospital. 203 mirrors 442 Stanies to Stanwell High Street. I can see both sides. And although there is always a tendency to not think too much about non London Borough residents, the Mayor must accept that for many thousands of such people , they are on low income, can’t afford London borough housing but work within the London economy. As much as Id personally like it and would use it , on balance i would agree an extension of the 116 to T5 would be a bit naughty (but nice) of TfL |
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Post by LK65EBO on Mar 4, 2023 14:17:59 GMT
Extend route 116 to Heathrow Terminal 5 via Stanwell. I would imagine there would be a reasonable level of demand for a TfL service between Stanwell and Terminal 5 given the lower fares than the non-TfL operators. It might stand a chance of paying for itself. Whilst I like the idea of the proposal, I don't think tfl would fund an extension outside London. Especially considering that there's the hopper fare, they would advise Ashford residents to change at Feltham for the 490 I'd have thought they would do 203 then 482. |
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Post by northlondon83 on Mar 4, 2023 14:23:36 GMT
Whilst I like the idea of the proposal, I don't think tfl would fund an extension outside London. Especially considering that there's the hopper fare, they would advise Ashford residents to change at Feltham for the 490 I'd have thought they would do 203 then 482. Yeah that's probably quicker, forgot the 203 serves Ashford |
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Post by cardinal on Mar 4, 2023 14:25:23 GMT
Whilst I like the idea of the proposal, I don't think tfl would fund an extension outside London. Especially considering that there's the hopper fare, they would advise Ashford residents to change at Feltham for the 490 I'd have thought they would do 203 then 482. The 555 is nowhere near as busy as it used to be. People have given up with Diamond Bus. Carlone is superb. Stanies people mostly use the 203 to Hatton X and then onwards via 482/490/285/X26/423 (hopper fare) |
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Post by cardinal on Mar 4, 2023 14:26:11 GMT
I'd have thought they would do 203 then 482. Yeah that's probably quicker, forgot the 203 serves Ashford Well not really - it runs down the A30 . It doesnt serve the town centre. |
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Post by northlondon83 on Mar 4, 2023 14:33:59 GMT
Yeah that's probably quicker, forgot the 203 serves Ashford Well not really - it runs down the A30 . It doesnt serve the town centre. Ashford Hospital, ie where it meets the 116. The OP wanted the 116 to be extended north of Ashford which doesn't serve the town centre either |
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Post by vjaska on Mar 4, 2023 14:35:00 GMT
Stanwell residents already have the Carlone Buses 442 and Diamond Bus 555 to get them to and from the Airport. TfL's remit does not extend to undercutting existing services outside the Greater London area. I don’t disagree with you because TfL shouldn’t take passengers away from those services. However the counter argument would be the existing network already does just that. 216 mirrors the 555 Sunbury Village to Ashford Hospital. 203 mirrors 442 Stanies to Stanwell High Street. I can see both sides. And although there is always a tendency to not think too much about non London Borough residents, the Mayor must accept that for many thousands of such people , they are on low income, can’t afford London borough housing but work within the London economy. As much as Id personally like it and would use it , on balance i would agree an extension of the 116 to T5 would be a bit naughty (but nice) of TfL The 116 & 203 have existed for many years which is different to extending a route to follow a non TfL route. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a good idea but it would cause issues with the non TfL operators for sure |
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Post by wirewiper on Mar 4, 2023 14:40:11 GMT
Stanwell residents already have the Carlone Buses 442 and Diamond Bus 555 to get them to and from the Airport. TfL's remit does not extend to undercutting existing services outside the Greater London area. I don’t disagree with you because TfL shouldn’t take passengers away from those services. However the counter argument would be the existing network already does just that. 216 mirrors the 555 Sunbury Village to Ashford Hospital. 203 mirrors 442 Stanies to Stanwell High Street. I can see both sides. And although there is always a tendency to not think too much about non London Borough residents, the Mayor must accept that for many thousands of such people , they are on low income, can’t afford London borough housing but work within the London economy. As much as Id personally like it and would use it , on balance i would agree an extension of the 116 to T5 would be a bit naughty (but nice) of TfL Some duplication of TfL and other services outside London is inevitable, due to the history of the services - it happens elsewhere too, TfL services 142 and 258 duplicate a number of other services between Bushey Station and Watford Junction, for example. However TfL cannot deliberately introduce a new route outside Greater London which undercuts an already existing service. I believe that the 442 and 555 are supported financially by Heathrow Airport Ltd. and that lower fares are available for airport workers. |
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Post by cardinal on Mar 4, 2023 14:41:02 GMT
Well not really - it runs down the A30 . It doesnt serve the town centre. Ashford Hospital, ie where it meets the 116. The OP wanted the 116 to be extended north of Ashford which doesn't serve the town centre either Yes aware - would be handy for Bedfont Green area though having a direct link to T5 - although they also have H25/H26 and nearby 203 to transit via Hatton Cross. |
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Post by cardinal on Mar 4, 2023 14:43:26 GMT
I don’t disagree with you because TfL shouldn’t take passengers away from those services. However the counter argument would be the existing network already does just that. 216 mirrors the 555 Sunbury Village to Ashford Hospital. 203 mirrors 442 Stanies to Stanwell High Street. I can see both sides. And although there is always a tendency to not think too much about non London Borough residents, the Mayor must accept that for many thousands of such people , they are on low income, can’t afford London borough housing but work within the London economy. As much as Id personally like it and would use it , on balance i would agree an extension of the 116 to T5 would be a bit naughty (but nice) of TfL Some duplication of TfL and other services outside London is inevitable, due to the history of the services - it happens elsewhere too, TfL services 142 and 258 duplicate a number of other services between Bushey Station and Watford Junction, for example. However TfL cannot deliberately introduce a new route outside Greater London which undercuts an already existing service. I believe that the 442 and 555 are supported financially by Heathrow Airport Ltd. and that lower fares are available for airport workers. Indeed www.heathrow.com/content/dam/heathrow/web/common/documents/company/team-heathrow/commuting-to-heathrow/public-transport/Heathrow-Travel-Subsidies.pdf |
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Post by evergreenadam on Mar 4, 2023 15:46:55 GMT
Extend route 116 to Heathrow Terminal 5 via Stanwell. I would imagine there would be a reasonable level of demand for a TfL service between Stanwell and Terminal 5 given the lower fares than the non-TfL operators. It might stand a chance of paying for itself. A very sound proposal. Especially with ULEZ issues. Only issue i see is Carlone objecting , although their route delves deeper into Stanwell plus TfL have agreed to the double decking of the 203. The issue with the latter is also the inadequate frequency. Should really be four an hour. Interesting to hear about the proposed DD of route 203, any idea when that might happen? An x15min frequency would be well deserved but I expect TfL would want DDs to soak up any excess demand before committing to an increase in PVR on a cross boundary route. I would expect that demand for cross boundary bus travel might well increase with the introduction of the ULEZ, Stanwell is just outside the Greater London boundary with relatively low incomes and £10 for a short hop across the boundary is likely to be too expensive for those with a non compliant vehicle. An extension of the 116 to Heathrow Terminal 5 would also provide a direct service from Bedfont Green/East Bedfont. |
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Post by vjaska on Mar 4, 2023 15:57:26 GMT
A very sound proposal. Especially with ULEZ issues. Only issue i see is Carlone objecting , although their route delves deeper into Stanwell plus TfL have agreed to the double decking of the 203. The issue with the latter is also the inadequate frequency. Should really be four an hour. Interesting to hear about the proposed DD of route 203, any idea when that might happen? An x15min frequency would be well deserved but I expect TfL would want DDs to soak up any excess demand before committing to an increase in PVR on a cross boundary route. I would expect that demand for cross boundary bus travel might well increase with the introduction of the ULEZ, Stanwell is just outside the Greater London boundary with relatively low incomes and £10 for a short hop across the boundary is likely to be too expensive for those with a non compliant vehicle. An extension of the 116 to Heathrow Terminal 5 would also provide a direct service from Bedfont Green/East Bedfont. RATP retained the 203 with existing hybrids, expected to be 8 now ex H91 VH’s. Double decking could be anytime between now & contract start date |
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Post by evergreenadam on Mar 5, 2023 8:24:53 GMT
At the very least other existing single deck cross boundary bus routes could be upgraded to DD in preparation for the introduction of the ULEZ and likely extra demand.
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Post by northlondon83 on Mar 5, 2023 8:54:08 GMT
At the very least other existing single deck cross boundary bus routes could be upgraded to DD in preparation for the introduction of the ULEZ and likely extra demand. Some of these I feel the demand wouldn't be there like the 549 or it's physically impossible like the 117. |
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