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Post by evergreenadam on Sept 22, 2024 9:50:24 GMT
Interested to understand people’s thoughts on the 187 at the Finchley Road end, didn’t seem very busy on Saturday but maybe that is not representative of weekday demand.
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Post by abellion on Sept 22, 2024 10:12:44 GMT
Interested to understand people’s thoughts on the 187 at the Finchley Road end, didn’t seem very busy on Saturday but maybe that is not representative of weekday demand. In the years that I went through Swiss Cottage semi-regularly (mostly the 82 days, and a year or two post-82) the 46, 187 and 268 were never that busy. The 31 was the absurdly overcrowded one and the 13/82/113 trio picked up very good numbers too heading towards Central London so the consultation to axe the 82 surprised me at the time. |
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Post by greg on Sept 23, 2024 16:08:07 GMT
Interested to understand people’s thoughts on the 187 at the Finchley Road end, didn’t seem very busy on Saturday but maybe that is not representative of weekday demand. In the years that I went through Swiss Cottage semi-regularly (mostly the 82 days, and a year or two post-82) the 46, 187 and 268 were never that busy. The 31 was the absurdly overcrowded one and the 13/82/113 trio picked up very good numbers too heading towards Central London so the consultation to axe the 82 surprised me at the time. Demand definitely dropped since then and I think the 13/113 is generous enough now. As for speaking on the 46/187/268/603, I still think a restructure of the services in the area would be beneficial on creating more reliable routes and new links, etc. 603 extended to Paddington via 46 route (renumbered 268), 187 rerouted to Hampstead Heath via 268 route and withdrawn from 02 and 46 cut back to Hampstead Heath. Possible mention of demand of 46 extended further south to assist the dangerously crowded 63 via Southwark to the likes of E&C, and also aid the 1 and Northern Line |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 23, 2024 16:22:01 GMT
In the years that I went through Swiss Cottage semi-regularly (mostly the 82 days, and a year or two post-82) the 46, 187 and 268 were never that busy. The 31 was the absurdly overcrowded one and the 13/82/113 trio picked up very good numbers too heading towards Central London so the consultation to axe the 82 surprised me at the time. Demand definitely dropped since then and I think the 13/113 is generous enough now. As for speaking on the 46/187/268/603, I still think a restructure of the services in the area would be beneficial on creating more reliable routes and new links, etc. 603 extended to Paddington via 46 route (renumbered 268), 187 rerouted to Hampstead Heath via 268 route and withdrawn from 02 and 46 cut back to Hampstead Heath. Possible mention of demand of 46 extended further south to assist the dangerously crowded 63 via Southwark to the likes of E&C, and also aid the 1 and Northern Line This is what happens when you start cutting routes off from corridors but you can't tell those obsessed with making cuts this as they think austerity is this wonderful solution to everything when actually, it's a myth that it ever works at all. What happens usually when these corridors get cut is people seek alternatives and if the alternatives are not up to their liking for whatever reason or aren't adequate enough, then that's people lost from TfL's revenue stream. TfL has a surplus, there is really no need to cut anything to save money and it should be focused on growing the whole network to increase revenue and in turn, start funding more bigger projects as a result - sadly, as we can see with some recent changes like the W routes, 309 stops removed among others, they are still obsessed with the nonsense that is austerity. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Sept 23, 2024 18:05:07 GMT
In the years that I went through Swiss Cottage semi-regularly (mostly the 82 days, and a year or two post-82) the 46, 187 and 268 were never that busy. The 31 was the absurdly overcrowded one and the 13/82/113 trio picked up very good numbers too heading towards Central London so the consultation to axe the 82 surprised me at the time. Demand definitely dropped since then and I think the 13/113 is generous enough now. As for speaking on the 46/187/268/603, I still think a restructure of the services in the area would be beneficial on creating more reliable routes and new links, etc. 603 extended to Paddington via 46 route (renumbered 268), 187 rerouted to Hampstead Heath via 268 route and withdrawn from 02 and 46 cut back to Hampstead Heath. Possible mention of demand of 46 extended further south to assist the dangerously crowded 63 via Southwark to the likes of E&C, and also aid the 1 and Northern Line Saturday was probably not the best day to judge the Finchley Road corridor due to the Jewish sabbath but I certainly noticed that the 13 and 113 coped fine with the loadings and both routes were a lot quieter than I had expected. Interesting route suggestions, thanks. I don’t think you could withdraw the 268 though. Axing the 100/388 and 45 from the Blackfriars Road corridor was obviously such a good idea! Meanwhile the 4 terminates at a dead end at Blackfriars with low loadings when it could more usefully extend over the river to Elephant. |
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Post by greg on Sept 23, 2024 19:48:54 GMT
Demand definitely dropped since then and I think the 13/113 is generous enough now. As for speaking on the 46/187/268/603, I still think a restructure of the services in the area would be beneficial on creating more reliable routes and new links, etc. 603 extended to Paddington via 46 route (renumbered 268), 187 rerouted to Hampstead Heath via 268 route and withdrawn from 02 and 46 cut back to Hampstead Heath. Possible mention of demand of 46 extended further south to assist the dangerously crowded 63 via Southwark to the likes of E&C, and also aid the 1 and Northern Line Saturday was probably not the best day to judge the Finchley Road corridor due to the Jewish sabbath but I certainly noticed that the 13 and 113 coped fine with the loadings and both routes were a lot quieter than I had expected. Interesting route suggestions, thanks. I don’t think you could withdraw the 268 though. Axing the 100/388 and 45 from the Blackfriars Road corridor was obviously such a good idea! Meanwhile the 4 terminates at a dead end at Blackfriars with low loadings when it could more usefully extend over the river to Elephant. This is going to be a long reply so I do apologise. Firstly, the 13 and 113 generally are actually very quiet. Its the peaks where the 13 gets busy between Victoria and Finchley Road, and then its pretty empty and the 113 from Hendon to Baker Street. They have got some generous frequencies which may account for the empty buses but a x10 min 13 and 113 would probably be more worthwhile. They’d be far much quieter if the 603 went west of Swiss Cottage down to St John’s Wood, as the school peak is the only real loaded 113 you’ll get. Secondly, without getting to stranger danger, I went to school in Swiss Cottage for five years and the commute always involved two buses, no matter which route I got, whether that be the 13/113 to Baker, 31/46 to Camden, C11 to Hampstead Heath or observationally the 187/268. 13/113 - pretty empty outside the peaks, the 13 caters far more for its Central London section while most use the 113 north of Baker Street. Not much to say, they are fine, could be fine with a reduced PVR/frequency. 113 especially is very generous. 31 - route needs another route alongside it urgently, between Camden and Kilburn the buses are packed to the rim from the very first stop. A few empty outside Swiss Cottage Station - but the fact no other route mirrors it makes it so busy. There could be easy tweaks to send another route either west to Kilburn Park from Swiss Cottage or north to Camden 46 - route is busy but takes a long detour and double the time then any of its other similar routes, 24/31 etc. Usually empty west of Swiss Cottage, as nobody from the dodgy sides of Camden is aiming to get to St John’s Wood or in the Hampstead area where most transport by Jaguaras and Range Rovers. Much more reliable being cut to the Heath and utilising the 268/603 route which would benefit a link in the Hampstead area to Golders/Muswell Hill and to St John’s Wood in the west. Thats a link people would actually use. 46/187/268/603: Changes have been made and these routes do not better reflect journey patterns at all IMO. People from St John’s Wood and Hall Road are far more likely to travel to Hampstead Station and nearby Golders Green rather than Queen’s Crescent (Camden’s very own Aylesbury Estate), Kentish Town or Somers Town. Extremely bizarre. There are just key missing objectives here. The 268 I understand was used to send elderly to the 02, but that is planned to be knocked down and the 268 doesn’t carry more than 3 passengers anyway beyond Swiss Cottage regardless. If the 187 wasn’t so long, I’d propose: 187 rerouted to Golders Green via 46 to Hampstead Station and then via the 268. S’t Mary’s and Akenside Road should have a link there. All the nearby primary schools are kids from SJW/Hampstead/GG not Camden. 268 rerouted to Muswell Hill at Jack Straw Castle replacing the 603 on this section and being extended westwards to Paddington. The x20 minute frequency is the appropriate demand. The 46 is far too frequent for such an unused section. 46 cut back to Hampstead Heath. The route is too long for those detours where most will hop on the 24/31 instead which will come first even. The journey patterns anywhere from KX to Camden empty at the Heath. The only issue here is then Malden Road gets two routes that finish at the Heath, however in certain areas these are seen as fine (104/238 etc). Dont think most in Malden Road would travel west of Royal Free anyway. If anyone has any suggestions on what they could do to tweak this, more than welcome. In this the 603 would be withdrawn, but fully replaced by the 187/268. Finchley Road loses a route to Hampstead, but you’d save about 10 minutes doing the walk by a short side road rather than the V shape routing the 268 does. C11 is also absolutely jam packed, a good idea I had was extending the 393 to Swiss Cottage via Steele’s Village and England’s Lane and then Primrose Hill Road via 31/C11. This will take somewhat people off the 31/C11 as most use these two to switch onto the 393 at Chalk Farm. Another idea I had to help the 31/C11 overbussing, was to extend the 27 to Swiss Cottage. And your last message about the 45 axe, I completely agree. It is ridiculous. The recent changes with the 59/133 also, was not great. I want to reflect my 46 proposals into this with two options: 46 - rerouted at Snow Hill to follow the 63 to E&C. Take some people off the 63, despite the different routings in Pentonville. (1) 46 - extended from Bart’s to E&C via the 133 serving Bank and London Bridge. (133 - rerouted previously back to Liverpool Street, this time to Appold Street with the 42 to assist the 8/26). |
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Post by abellion on Sept 23, 2024 20:11:37 GMT
Adding onto the 31 talks, didn’t it somehow for some reason get frequency cuts too? I liked the VNWs but the route was so unfun because it was so crowded
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Post by evergreenadam on Sept 23, 2024 20:41:29 GMT
Adding onto the 31 talks, didn’t it somehow for some reason get frequency cuts too? I liked the VNWs but the route was so unfun because it was so crowded It did! |
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Post by someone on Sept 28, 2024 11:35:34 GMT
Adding onto the 31 talks, didn’t it somehow for some reason get frequency cuts too? I liked the VNWs but the route was so unfun because it was so crowded Did you try the 28/328 during the VNW era? They were so fun to go on! I never managed to take the 31 then, and have still never been on it! Plaxton Presidents were also a favourite, so 401 and 229 were great, as well as the odd one on the 129/132/180/486. The Metroline ones (17/43//52/260/302/460) were the best ones though! |
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Post by abellion on Sept 28, 2024 12:25:07 GMT
Adding onto the 31 talks, didn’t it somehow for some reason get frequency cuts too? I liked the VNWs but the route was so unfun because it was so crowded Did you try the 28/328 during the VNW era? They were so fun to go on! I never managed to take the 31 then, and have still never been on it! Plaxton Presidents were also a favourite, so 401 and 229 were great, as well as the odd one on the 129/132/180/486. The Metroline ones (17/43//52/260/302/460) were the best ones though! I did on the 28 especially which was usually fun at night, where you could get a seat unlike on the 31  |
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Post by evergreenadam on Oct 10, 2024 6:59:36 GMT
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Post by evergreenadam on Nov 9, 2024 9:58:35 GMT
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