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Post by greenboy on Jan 4, 2022 7:41:18 GMT
If you have such strong views on this matter, I'm assuming you responded to the consultation or petitioned your local Assembly member/MP? Those "pretty charts" with the actual usage provide the only true representation of the services - not anecdotal observations. I love how this forum loves to obsess about cuts and yet when rational cuts are proposed it's a horror because it doesn't quite fit their crayon based ideas. Not to mention that usage to Gallons Reach has been in long term decline over the last 10 years or so because of changing shopping habits. Redevelopment of the site is proposed in the medium term in a more transit friendly manner I would big to differ, the car park at Gallions Reach is busier than ever, it is not down to shopping habits. Its main direct competition over the years has been Westfield. Especially in terms of people going there by public transport. Is parking at Gallions Reach still free? I wonder if people are parking there and getting a bus to Stratford or wherever they're going? I must admit that I've used Bluewater as an unofficial park and ride before and got on a bus to Dartford or Bexleyheath. |
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Post by greenboy on Jan 4, 2022 8:11:43 GMT
I'm possibly being cynical but I think the future bus project is to more than anything improve the satisfaction of existing bus users. And there's nothing wrong with that. The fancy interiors on a bus are a pretty low cost project when compared to other initiatives. Attracting pedestrians onto buses is, in my mind - a bad approach. Walking or cycling, where appropriate, is fundamentally better than using public transport. It's better for your individual wellbeing, wider wellbeing and of course financially. We should actually be encouraging people to walk or cycle in London instead of using public transport - appreciate that might be controversial. And of course recognise it isn't possible for every user or journey Well that is where the bus would mainly get its custom. If they are no longer trying to attract cyclists/pedestrians because they are on a green agenda, they may as well give up. There is not much benefits to attract car users back to the bus, no matter how much you try to sugar coat it. I'm all in favour of encouraging walking and cycling but as I've said before I can't help thinking that there is a conflict of interest in TfL doing so when they're also supposed to be encouraging bus travel. In any other part of the country bus operators would only be interested in promoting their own product. |
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Post by WH241 on Jan 4, 2022 8:45:40 GMT
I would big to differ, the car park at Gallions Reach is busier than ever, it is not down to shopping habits. Its main direct competition over the years has been Westfield. Especially in terms of people going there by public transport. Is parking at Gallions Reach still free? I wonder if people are parking there and getting a bus to Stratford or wherever they're going? I must admit that I've used Bluewater as an unofficial park and ride before and got on a bus to Dartford or Bexleyheath. Sorry but that really made me laugh! Gallions Reach is free but doubt very much people would park there and catch a painfully slow bus to Stratford! The journey to Stratford can be a nightmare especially with traffic in Prince Regent Lane and the A13 junction. If people really want free parking they can use Morrisons at Stratford for 2 hours but generally the people using Westfield are happy to pay the charge! |
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Post by WH241 on Jan 4, 2022 9:01:49 GMT
It's £2128 for an annual travel card Z1-4. The average UK price for insurance is around £700, road tax £250. Assuming you keep your car fit through regular services it works out to an additional £300, maybe add in an extra £100 for a good service. This should mean on average you won't need to be spending on excessive repairs every single year. That gives you excess of £778, some of this can be used for the large repairs that cop up every few years should you save portions. Fuel usage will depend but I certainly don't spend hundreds of pounds on petrol. The hurdle is the initial investment of a car, and that's the price people will be willing to pay for the benefit of owning one. ULEZ compliant cars are very easy and cheap to come by these days too. You can even hunt around for a CC exempt car if you really want to. It honestly does not cost as much as travel on public transport does for a year. There are many other variables of course, the train is certainly very convenient and many car drivers may opt for a travelcard alongside a car. However this further shows they're happy to pay a lot more just to have a car for the occasions they need to have one as they don't see public transport fit for whatever reason. £700 for insurance!!!! there was me thinking £300 was expensive I am actually shocked how much a Zone 1-4 travel card costs. I guess as I do not pay for travel then I do not realise who steeply the Gold card has risen over the years. I am paying £650 a year only in the last 2 years I could finally justify fully comp as it was just too expensive. I have 18 years no claims but my post code sets off alarm bells in insurance companies 😉 |
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Post by MKAY315 on Jan 4, 2022 10:34:15 GMT
£700 for insurance!!!! there was me thinking £300 was expensive I am actually shocked how much a Zone 1-4 travel card costs. I guess as I do not pay for travel then I do not realise who steeply the Gold card has risen over the years. I am paying £650 a year only in the last 2 years I could finally justify fully comp as it was just too expensive. I have 18 years no claims but my post code sets off alarm bells in insurance companies 😉 I feel for anyone that lives in the Newham Borough that emissions tax is a blatant cash cow move. How the Newham folk didn't protest this I'll never know. |
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Post by MKAY315 on Jan 4, 2022 10:37:57 GMT
The 425 going via Hackney Central would probably be a good shout. I know when Snoggle was with us he did mention that he thought the 238 being extended to Becontree Heath would have been very counterproductive for the reason you suggest. It'd have fired up a ridiculously high amount of untapped demand and rather than helping the 5, you'd have ended up with two routes that needed help themselves. Even the EL2 these days is very well used, whenever I'm waiting for a bus in the morning and I see an EL2 approaching I don't even bother to flag it down half the time as it's packed to the rafters so it's hard to imagine what the 238 would have looked like. But the fact that may have been an issue suggests how poor the bus links really are when you're starting to worry about routes becoming far too busy. Barking to Gants Hill is a missing link indeed, the EL1 or EL2 running there in the way you suggest would have been nice. Even now it's an option, but I'd probably not want the EL1 extended there because the crowd that builds up for the EL1 at Ilford is ridiculous and I don't think the EL1 would manage having more of a crowd to deal with. It's funny to think Barking to Ilford only has two direct routes liking the two towns, with the 366 providing a more indirect link. For two major town centres only 7 stops apart you'd think there'd be a lot more provision for travel between them. There was a Barking to Gants Hill, but the 179 was pathetically cut back to Ilford. There was huge opposition against it, they did not care. These are the journeys that people would make in a car on a long stretch of trunk road, something that TfL has punished many bus users over the years with by cuts. Saturday 20th February 2010 was a dark day for the folk that relied on that Gants Hill to Ilford Lane link. A lot of folk I remembered that day so vividly were getting on the 179 at Ilford Station only for the driver to say I'm not going to Barking anymore so you'd have to get the 169 from outside Iceland (before they moved it to the Greggs bus stop to have a common stop with the 179 and EL1 and 2) |
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Post by wirewiper on Jan 4, 2022 10:41:49 GMT
I am paying £650 a year only in the last 2 years I could finally justify fully comp as it was just too expensive. I have 18 years no claims but my post code sets off alarm bells in insurance companies 😉 I feel for anyone that lives in the Newham Borough that emissions tax is a blatant cash cow move. How the Newham folk didn't protest this I'll never know. I thought this was about insurance. not emissions/ULEZ? I suspect there weren't enough owners of non-compliant vehicles in Newham and too many people concerned about the health of local children. |
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Post by MKAY315 on Jan 4, 2022 10:49:09 GMT
I feel for anyone that lives in the Newham Borough that emissions tax is a blatant cash cow move. How the Newham folk didn't protest this I'll never know. I thought this was about insurance. not emissions/ULEZ? I suspect there weren't enough owners of non-compliant vehicles in Newham and too many people concerned about the health of local children. So there's a separate charge for emissions for residents that live in Newham for their permits. |
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Post by WH241 on Jan 4, 2022 11:00:40 GMT
I thought this was about insurance. not emissions/ULEZ? I suspect there weren't enough owners of non-compliant vehicles in Newham and too many people concerned about the health of local children. So there's a separate charge for emissions for residents that live in Newham for their permits. Yes this is correct, we are also charged for all permits now where as before the first permit was free. We got a discount for the first year but this year will be full price which is at least £100 but can’t remember the exact price. |
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Post by MKAY315 on Jan 4, 2022 11:16:38 GMT
So there's a separate charge for emissions for residents that live in Newham for their permits. Yes this is correct, we are also charged for all permits now where as before the first permit was free. We got a discount for the first year but this year will be full price which is at least £100 but can’t remember the exact price. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to roll it onto other boroughs as well in the future. |
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Post by vjaska on Jan 4, 2022 11:21:34 GMT
Yes this is correct, we are also charged for all permits now where as before the first permit was free. We got a discount for the first year but this year will be full price which is at least £100 but can’t remember the exact price. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to roll it onto other boroughs as well in the future. If it gets people out of their cars, then hopefully it will be rolled out - notice I said if before I get shot to pieces by someone. |
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Post by vjaska on Jan 4, 2022 11:27:29 GMT
There was a Barking to Gants Hill, but the 179 was pathetically cut back to Ilford. There was huge opposition against it, they did not care. These are the journeys that people would make in a car on a long stretch of trunk road, something that TfL has punished many bus users over the years with by cuts. Saturday 20th February 2010 was a dark day for the folk that relied on that Gants Hill to Ilford Lane link. A lot of folk I remembered that day so vividly were getting on the 179 at Ilford Station only for the driver to say I'm not going to Barking anymore so you'd have to get the 169 from outside Iceland (before they moved it to the Greggs bus stop to have a common stop with the 179 and EL1 and 2) The problem is that section between Ilford & Barking is prone to heavy congestion but of course, other people (not you) on here who defend cars and attack any measures to curb them are saying it’s TfL’s fault for removing the link. Clearly, they wanted to protect the reliability of the rest of the route with the move as sad as it is that the link was removed - if people want the link back, congestion needs to drop for it to work or the Chingford end loses the route |
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Post by WH241 on Jan 4, 2022 11:50:20 GMT
Saturday 20th February 2010 was a dark day for the folk that relied on that Gants Hill to Ilford Lane link. A lot of folk I remembered that day so vividly were getting on the 179 at Ilford Station only for the driver to say I'm not going to Barking anymore so you'd have to get the 169 from outside Iceland (before they moved it to the Greggs bus stop to have a common stop with the 179 and EL1 and 2) The problem is that section between Ilford & Barking is prone to heavy congestion but of course, other people (not you) on here who defend cars and attack any measures to curb them are saying it’s TfL’s fault for removing the link. Clearly, they wanted to protect the reliability of the rest of the route with the move as sad as it is that the link was removed - if people want the link back, congestion needs to drop for it to work or the Chingford end loses the route Please can we stop with the digs and narky remarks about car drivers. The forum is seriously so toxic lately it’s not healthy. Up until the pandemic I was very pro bus and used buses at weekends leaving my car at home, since then I just got used to using my car and trains as they are quicker means of getting places. I really can’t stand the thought of getting on a bus going one stop then being held to help even out the service. The same with heading to Oxford Street by buses I got fed up being kicked off a 25 then a rammed 8 turns up without space. |
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Post by wirewiper on Jan 4, 2022 12:15:11 GMT
The problem is that section between Ilford & Barking is prone to heavy congestion but of course, other people (not you) on here who defend cars and attack any measures to curb them are saying it’s TfL’s fault for removing the link. Clearly, they wanted to protect the reliability of the rest of the route with the move as sad as it is that the link was removed - if people want the link back, congestion needs to drop for it to work or the Chingford end loses the route Please can we stop with the digs and narky remarks about car drivers. The forum is seriously so toxic lately it’s not healthy. Up until the pandemic I was very pro bus and used buses at weekends leaving my car at home, since then I just got used to using my car and trains as they are quicker means of getting places. I really can’t stand the thought of getting on a bus going one stop then being held to help even out the service. The same with heading to Oxford Street by buses I got fed up being kicked off a 25 then a rammed 8 turns up without space. I don't think comment about car driving is particularly toxic on this forum. However if you advocate car use on a bus enthusiast forum you must expect people to have other views, and to express them. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 4, 2022 12:22:13 GMT
I would big to differ, the car park at Gallions Reach is busier than ever, it is not down to shopping habits. Its main direct competition over the years has been Westfield. Especially in terms of people going there by public transport. Is parking at Gallions Reach still free? I wonder if people are parking there and getting a bus to Stratford or wherever they're going? I must admit that I've used Bluewater as an unofficial park and ride before and got on a bus to Dartford or Bexleyheath. It is free, but has a 3 or 4 hour time limit, it was monitored by attendants, but is now camera controlled. |
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