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Post by TB123 on Mar 28, 2023 13:53:40 GMT
The comments just show that anyone can take the mick out of any name - equally "arc" could be derided as "out of the Ark" and as you say yourself, "Orbits" reminds you of chewing gum! I don't often read the comments for on-line news articles as they tend to be inane. The livery in itself may not be a draw to non-bus users, but the X140 is proof that people like the services - a 15% growth in passenger numbers, and increased customer satisfaction. Also significant is that 40% of X140 passengers also use another bus as part of their journey, showing the the route has wider network benefits. Hmm, what are TfL using as their basis for the 15%? Is that 15% since the route first appeared in 2019 or 15% since the pandemic numbers started to rise again or 15% on the 140s numbers pre-split, it would good to see clarification. For the 40% how can we be sure this wasn’t the same on the 140? Harrow is a big shopping destination for the whole area. It just feels like TfL have plucked these figures with no real context of what they are being judged against. Seen elsewhere that's 15% since the restructuring which was end of 2019 pre-Covid. Hardly plucked figures although appreciate that isn't the line |
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Post by danorak on Mar 28, 2023 13:56:07 GMT
I hope the Superloop route for Bromley to Croydon isn't the 119, but something more like the old 726. Probably X119 I very much doubt the number 726 would be introduced as there are no 7 Series numbers. It’s only a number at the end of the day… I think in this case the numbering is significant if this is meant to form part of a coherent network of a particular type of service: it helps the user to understand the service and what to expect from it. |
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Post by greenboy on Mar 28, 2023 14:09:09 GMT
I hope the Superloop route for Bromley to Croydon isn't the 119, but something more like the old 726. I could envisage a route via Beckenham, Elmers End and the A222 into Croydon. It would have to be single-deck if it went via Shortlands. I doubt it would go to Croydon, just Beckenham Junction for Tramlink. |
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Post by wirewiper on Mar 28, 2023 14:14:04 GMT
I could envisage a route via Beckenham, Elmers End and the A222 into Croydon. It would have to be single-deck if it went via Shortlands. I doubt it would go to Croydon, just Beckenham Junction for Tramlink. The concept map definitely envisages a Bromley-Croydon route though. I know the 54 and 353 were turned into Tramlink feeders but I don't think that is the intention here. |
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Post by vjaska on Mar 28, 2023 14:24:57 GMT
Didn’t you say in another thread that TfL has all the data and that we trust that they know what they are? Yes I did but what’s that got to do with these services being sold as express but the reality is buses will be sat in congestion just as they are now. Even if they are using roads like the A406 I doubt very much the buses will get up to 40 or 50. Wish people would ignore my posts if they have nothing to say or just want to dig. This is the second time today on here I have had to defend myself and explain a reply 🙄 It wasn't a dig, it was a legitimate question so it isn't the 2nd time on here today - as I've previously told you, if I've an issue with you, I will tell you as such and that otherwise, it would be nice if you stop making assumptions |
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Post by vjaska on Mar 28, 2023 14:27:24 GMT
The comments just show that anyone can take the mick out of any name - equally "arc" could be derided as "out of the Ark" and as you say yourself, "Orbits" reminds you of chewing gum! I don't often read the comments for on-line news articles as they tend to be inane. The livery in itself may not be a draw to non-bus users, but the X140 is proof that people like the services - a 15% growth in passenger numbers, and increased customer satisfaction. Also significant is that 40% of X140 passengers also use another bus as part of their journey, showing the the route has wider network benefits. Hmm, what are TfL using as their basis for the 15%? Is that 15% since the route first appeared in 2019 or 15% since the pandemic numbers started to rise again or 15% on the 140s numbers pre-split, it would good to see clarification. For the 40% how can we be sure this wasn’t the same on the 140? Harrow is a big shopping destination for the whole area. It just feels like TfL have plucked these figures with no real context of what they are being judged against. I don't know about the numbers but I know people local to the route have said that the X140 has done really well since it's inception but it needs an increase over the section to cater for demand. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Mar 28, 2023 14:30:23 GMT
Hmm, what are TfL using as their basis for the 15%? Is that 15% since the route first appeared in 2019 or 15% since the pandemic numbers started to rise again or 15% on the 140s numbers pre-split, it would good to see clarification. For the 40% how can we be sure this wasn’t the same on the 140? Harrow is a big shopping destination for the whole area. It just feels like TfL have plucked these figures with no real context of what they are being judged against. I don't know about the numbers but I know people local to the route have said that the X140 has done really well since it's inception but it needs an increase over the section to cater for demand. I’m not doubting that, I’ve taken journeys in both directions from end to end. They were all equally busy on the outset but notably quieter by the last stop. I would just like to know where TfLs base figures are coming from. |
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Post by snowman on Mar 28, 2023 14:31:13 GMT
The problem I have with the mockup is it just doesn't look like an Express bus, just looks like an ordinary slow stopping service bus.
Perhaps it is my age, but I expect those big diagonal go faster stripes that were popular in 1980s and 1990s, or perhaps it was Express branded vehicles always had double headlights to show they mean business.
If a short stubby double deck bus, instead of a sleek 13m (ish) single deck is what TfL think that an express bus concept needs to attract passengers then I clearly don't understand the concept properly. I thought the concept was to attract people from their cars by offering an alternative, not just another low spec urban bus. I must be wrong, just appears to be an ordinary route with a bit of branding.
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Post by SILENCED on Mar 28, 2023 14:33:41 GMT
I could envisage a route via Beckenham, Elmers End and the A222 into Croydon. It would have to be single-deck if it went via Shortlands. I doubt it would go to Croydon, just Beckenham Junction for Tramlink. If there was just some railway line you could extend the tram from Beckenham Junction to Bromley along, it would negate the need for an express bus between Croydon and Bromley. |
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Post by stuckonthe486 on Mar 28, 2023 14:41:20 GMT
Plans for an orbital bus network were in Boris Johnson's manifesto in 2008, but all he ended up doing was doubling the frequency of the X26 (to two an hour). image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2009/04/22/transport_manifesto.pdf15 years later, Sadiq Khan has dug this one up again. His only concrete plan is to... double the frequency of the X26 (to four an hour). Funny old world. I don't think it's a bad idea - particularly in SE London where restoring that old 726 corridor would be useful. I can't really speak for the other bits. But it's not clear what problems he's trying to solve here other than a political one. And the whole thing's laced with the usual cynicism of dressing up long-established and long-proposed routes and implying they're brand new. As has been said on here, Bexleyheath to Bromley feels a bit short. Even Erith to Bromley would be an improvement if you're trying to get people out of cars. Cross-boundary links (especially Bluewater) feel like an elephant in the room - perhaps the experience of the short-lived Arriva X29/429 when Bluewater opened scared them off, even though that was 20 years back now. The other odd one is Walthamstow to Royal Docks - finishing just short of a £2bn "public-transport focused" (aye, right) tunnel that could take that bus to Greenwich (perhaps) and be a real game changer. Maybe that'll get reviewed at a later stage. And express/limited stop links to Woolwich for the Elizabeth Line from places like Eltham and Sidcup would be very popular, particularly since train services have been cut in that area. But they're not there, despite years of pressure from within Greenwich. There'll be other places that seem like odd misses. Done right, this could be really good. But It's got to be done right. And they have to be patient too - it took a long while for the X26 to become popular, and it may take a while for these new routes to catch on too. |
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Post by northlondon83 on Mar 28, 2023 14:42:29 GMT
I think the Bromley to Bexley link should be diverted to Abbey Wood, or possibly Thamesmead. Bromley has no links to the Elizabeth line
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Post by northlondon83 on Mar 28, 2023 14:52:48 GMT
I think this is a highly unrealistic idea and I question whether it will happen and if it does how much will it cost? Not only that but there will have to be cuts elsewhere for this to go ahead.
Also, where on earth is the Royal Docks? My knowledge of East London beyond Beckton isn't great but I'm assuming it's either there or around Silvertown.
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Post by enviroPB on Mar 28, 2023 14:53:54 GMT
The "Superloop" branding will be rolled out first on the four existing express routes so it could appear quite soon (EDIT: yes I know Abellio doesn't operate an express route at present). According to the RouteONE article about the launch, the Abellio vehicle was adorned with the new livery and logo for "launch purposes" so is unlikely to retain the vinyls. On the finished product I would expect the branding to be route-specific, it may also feature connections with other Superloop routes. The routes are to be consulted on between now and 2024, although the branding could appear on the existing routes sooner than that. www.route-one.net/news/tfl-unveils-superloop-express-bus-plans-for-london/No doubt the Son of a Bus Driver is going to advertise this to the London Assembly as added resources in lieu of ULEZ, but it's very likely no new route will be borne before August of this year. I believe TfL have commissioned this project some time ago, but the consultation date precludes the revised start date for ULEZ so it's further evidence that the Mayor is unduly rushing the ULEZ expansion. |
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Post by astock5000 on Mar 28, 2023 14:55:00 GMT
I like the concept but the execution is quite meh IMO. The base livery is ok, reminds me of NBC like others have mentioned but the branding and application I think is poor (removal of the advert frames would be a good start) and I’d of loved to have seen Stenning get his hands on this and seen what he could come up with. With little details on what the routes will be (bar the current collection of limited and express routes) and if any bus priority schemes come with this which could make or break such a scheme, I’ll hold further judgment back. I also like the concept of this, while feeling that if anything it's perhaps not ambitious enough - though of course understandable considering funding constraints. The livery on the Abellio BYD indeed reminds me of both the NBC dual purpose scheme but also the second livery applied to the BEA Routemasters (and initially retained on the first of those bought by London Transport) though that is partly due to the red appearing to have a bit of an orange tint in the photos, perhaps due to it being a vinyl wrap. I see there are suggestions on Twitter that while the livery will be red and white, this may not be the final version. Agreed on the removal of advert frames but I suppose that could have just been due to this being temporary for the launch? I'm rather neutral on the name, though perhaps it would have been better to choose one that didn't reference the shape of the network in case parts of it are never implemented or are not successful for whatever reason. While I don't travel on the X140 regularly enough to have more than just anecdotal evidence, the route does appear to be very popular so I'm not surprised by the figures released. Most of the time it is a very useful, fast link across that part of west London - though I did once have to abandon a journey due to seriously heavy traffic around Yeading. I do believe that more bus priority is very much needed for routes like this to reach their full potential - and would benefit other services on the same corridors too - so hopefully there will be progress on that front. (My - complete fantasy - idea a few years back was similar but with additional radial routes, full BRT-style priority to allow long services to operate reliably and an all-over blue colour scheme simply branded 'Express'). |
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Post by stuckonthe486 on Mar 28, 2023 14:55:36 GMT
I think the Bromley to Bexley link should be diverted to Abbey Wood, or possibly Thamesmead. Bromley has no links to the Elizabeth line But Bromley already has fantastic fast trains to Victoria from Bromley South. If you're thinking of Canary Wharf, a longer X239 would fix that issue. |
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