|
|
Post by vjaska on Mar 13, 2022 17:27:24 GMT
There should definitely be an outer Surburban express to overlap with the X26, this was promised a number of years ago when our current PM was our mayor, this could be the 725 from Bluewater to Sutton, with the X26 remembered back to the 726. I hope this will lead to the return of the X53, either as a limited stop (like the 607 or X26 or all stops at the extremities with a non stope section in the middle (like the X68) there’s no reason why CrossRail should effect a potential X53, seeing as CrossRail and the 53/453 routes go via completely different routes between Woolwich and the West End, I also don’t see why the 53 would be cut back any further than E&C, if anything I can see the 53/453 being reduced in frequency. A limited stop X53 could serve the following places Plumstead Station, then via the A206 direct to Woolwich, Charlton Village, Blackheath Royal Standard, New Cross, E&C, Lambeth North, County Hall, Whitehall then Trafalgar Sq or have the X53 run all stops to Blackheath then non stop to E&C, If the 180 changes do go ahead I’d be happy if they introduced a X177 to compensate for the loss of capacity along the Woolwich-Greenwich corridor, limited stop of course. I’d also be down with an X176 too Because TfL have form for cutting existing links when introducing a express route in current times (X140) and are not interested in Inner London anyway hence why most reductions happen there. The X53 idea isn’t the issue - the issue is TfL have already said more cuts are coming and it would be easy to introduce a X53 and use that to cover up any cut to the 53 or 453. A X176 in comparison falls into the category of how poor Inner London is set up for express routes hence why a number of suggestions in this thread have good intentions but they all rely on a lot of priority being set up as well as the regular routes alongside not being slashed in comparison and bus priority has been talked about constantly but the level of action only usually matches the actual conversation - until that changes, Inner London express routes are a pipe dream unless you have a unique situation like the X68 |
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Mar 13, 2022 18:18:47 GMT
There should definitely be an outer Surburban express to overlap with the X26, this was promised a number of years ago when our current PM was our mayor, this could be the 725 from Bluewater to Sutton, with the X26 remembered back to the 726. I hope this will lead to the return of the X53, either as a limited stop (like the 607 or X26 or all stops at the extremities with a non stope section in the middle (like the X68) there’s no reason why CrossRail should effect a potential X53, seeing as CrossRail and the 53/453 routes go via completely different routes between Woolwich and the West End, I also don’t see why the 53 would be cut back any further than E&C, if anything I can see the 53/453 being reduced in frequency. A limited stop X53 could serve the following places Plumstead Station, then via the A206 direct to Woolwich, Charlton Village, Blackheath Royal Standard, New Cross, E&C, Lambeth North, County Hall, Whitehall then Trafalgar Sq or have the X53 run all stops to Blackheath then non stop to E&C, If the 180 changes do go ahead I’d be happy if they introduced a X177 to compensate for the loss of capacity along the Woolwich-Greenwich corridor, limited stop of course. I’d also be down with an X176 too Because TfL have form for cutting existing links when introducing a express route in current times (X140) and are not interested in Inner London anyway hence why most reductions happen there. The X53 idea isn’t the issue - the issue is TfL have already said more cuts are coming and it would be easy to introduce a X53 and use that to cover up any cut to the 53 or 453. A X176 in comparison falls into the category of how poor Inner London is set up for express routes hence why a number of suggestions in this thread have good intentions but they all rely on a lot of priority being set up as well as the regular routes alongside not being slashed in comparison and bus priority has been talked about constantly but the level of action only usually matches the actual conversation - until that changes, Inner London express routes are a pipe dream unless you have a unique situation like the X68 The X68 was quite similar to the old X53 running with the flow only Monday to Fridays and I think the X53 had an express section aswell or was it just limited stop throughout? |
|
|
|
Post by southlondon413 on Mar 13, 2022 18:27:06 GMT
There should definitely be an outer Surburban express to overlap with the X26, this was promised a number of years ago when our current PM was our mayor, this could be the 725 from Bluewater to Sutton, with the X26 remembered back to the 726. I hope this will lead to the return of the X53, either as a limited stop (like the 607 or X26 or all stops at the extremities with a non stope section in the middle (like the X68) there’s no reason why CrossRail should effect a potential X53, seeing as CrossRail and the 53/453 routes go via completely different routes between Woolwich and the West End, I also don’t see why the 53 would be cut back any further than E&C, if anything I can see the 53/453 being reduced in frequency. A limited stop X53 could serve the following places Plumstead Station, then via the A206 direct to Woolwich, Charlton Village, Blackheath Royal Standard, New Cross, E&C, Lambeth North, County Hall, Whitehall then Trafalgar Sq or have the X53 run all stops to Blackheath then non stop to E&C, If the 180 changes do go ahead I’d be happy if they introduced a X177 to compensate for the loss of capacity along the Woolwich-Greenwich corridor, limited stop of course. I’d also be down with an X176 too Because TfL have form for cutting existing links when introducing a express route in current times (X140) and are not interested in Inner London anyway hence why most reductions happen there. The X53 idea isn’t the issue - the issue is TfL have already said more cuts are coming and it would be easy to introduce a X53 and use that to cover up any cut to the 53 or 453. A X176 in comparison falls into the category of how poor Inner London is set up for express routes hence why a number of suggestions in this thread have good intentions but they all rely on a lot of priority being set up as well as the regular routes alongside not being slashed in comparison and bus priority has been talked about constantly but the level of action only usually matches the actual conversation - until that changes, Inner London express routes are a pipe dream unless you have a unique situation like the X68 Exactly we are talking about express routes in outer boroughs which get people from point A to point B to continue their TfL journey. It is a great opportunity for TfL to create new links in outer boroughs without the need for complex road upgrades. |
|
|
|
Post by thesquirrels on Mar 13, 2022 18:53:16 GMT
Because TfL have form for cutting existing links when introducing a express route in current times (X140) and are not interested in Inner London anyway hence why most reductions happen there. The X53 idea isn’t the issue - the issue is TfL have already said more cuts are coming and it would be easy to introduce a X53 and use that to cover up any cut to the 53 or 453. A X176 in comparison falls into the category of how poor Inner London is set up for express routes hence why a number of suggestions in this thread have good intentions but they all rely on a lot of priority being set up as well as the regular routes alongside not being slashed in comparison and bus priority has been talked about constantly but the level of action only usually matches the actual conversation - until that changes, Inner London express routes are a pipe dream unless you have a unique situation like the X68 The X68 was quite similar to the old X53 running with the flow only Monday to Fridays and I think the X53 had an express section aswell or was it just limited stop throughout? Limited stop, but with no stops between the Elephant and New Cross, and again between Woolwich and Thamesmead. |
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Mar 13, 2022 19:00:23 GMT
The X68 was quite similar to the old X53 running with the flow only Monday to Fridays and I think the X53 had an express section aswell or was it just limited stop throughout? Limited stop, but with no stops between the Elephant and New Cross, and again between Woolwich and Thamesmead. Good to know. |
|
|
|
Post by CircleLineofLife on Mar 13, 2022 19:13:27 GMT
Do you think people would use an X13 every 30 minutes if it were reliable and ran all day? If the 263 would stay at the same frequency do you think the X13 should be express all the way or just express south of North Finchley? If the latter, could it make up for the lost 84 and run from Potters Bar? Could definitely see use and I imagine there is quite a strong amount of demand from GG up to Barnet, plus if it does end up growing in popularity it could be adjusted to run more frequently. In the past few years demand on the 263 really has grown, probably to the point now where it really should be running every 8 minutes, the X13 would perhaps help support capacity. Yes I 1000000% agree with it being an express route up to Potters Bar, I can see that being a hit. That would mean North Finchley & Whetstone are now linked up to PB. Cross border are a no-no though, that would never happen as the councils outside london would not fund it. They are just really political. I don't think we will see cross border bus routes. We even see the 258 threatened to get cut to Bushey in the bus development papers, which no one wants. Plus I know the demand personally stretches further south than GG into Cricklewood and Willesden. Saying that a Kilburn Park- Watford Xpress route would be cool though. |
|
|
|
Post by CircleLineofLife on Mar 13, 2022 19:19:09 GMT
Unless the X13 is running every 20-30 minutes which I doubt it would as it would make no sense to run it at such a frequency, I don’t see a logical reason for it replacing the 84 either. The 383 extension is the most realistic idea I’ve seen for that particular situation, shame it isn’t happening. Sullivan Buses 84 will indeed run from St Albans & loop around Potters Bar I also don’t think extending the 17 such a long way is a great idea as it would potentially hurt it’s reliability ending up longer than the current 263 Do you think an X13 every 20-30 minutes would be too infrequent to attract passengers from Barnet going south then? I thought if it is reliable it could be maybe be seen as like another train line that people could plan trips around, without reducing other routes? Which way would you run an extended 383? The old 383 routing to Potters Bar would miss Greenacre Close and the south of Potters Bar, so maybe via the old 84 to connect at Potters Bar station for onward travel to St Albans? If they kept the current 13 at the same frequency then no initially. However, what will end up happening is more people will want the X13 over most other buses along that corridor especially as it doesn't follow the High Barnet northern line branch, which would affect the other frequencies of routes along that corridor. Xpress routes just tend to encourage modal shift onto them, as ppl would rather wait for an express service, which would cause a pressure to increase the frequency or optimise the timetable ( as the 607 and X140 operate at 6 and 5 bph respectively) |
|
|
|
Post by uakari on Mar 13, 2022 19:26:02 GMT
Could definitely see use and I imagine there is quite a strong amount of demand from GG up to Barnet, plus if it does end up growing in popularity it could be adjusted to run more frequently. In the past few years demand on the 263 really has grown, probably to the point now where it really should be running every 8 minutes, the X13 would perhaps help support capacity. Yes I 1000000% agree with it being an express route up to Potters Bar, I can see that being a hit. That would mean North Finchley & Whetstone are now linked up to PB. Cross border are a no-no though, that would never happen as the councils outside london would not fund it. They are just really political. I don't think we will see cross border bus routes. We even see the 258 threatened to get cut to Bushey in the bus development papers, which no one wants. Plus I know the demand personally stretches further south than GG into Cricklewood and Willesden. Saying that a Kilburn Park- Watford Xpress route would be cool though. Let's face it, none of these are likely to happen in the short term, at least until TfL has spare cash again. By that time they might have re-evaluated their position on cross-border routes as I think they know that really they should be providing them to the first town beyond the border so as not to unfairly disadvantage the first town inside it which contributes to the GLA levy. It's just because there is no cash right now they are making an issue of it. |
|
|
|
Post by LondonExplorer316 on Mar 13, 2022 19:26:31 GMT
Could definitely see use and I imagine there is quite a strong amount of demand from GG up to Barnet, plus if it does end up growing in popularity it could be adjusted to run more frequently. In the past few years demand on the 263 really has grown, probably to the point now where it really should be running every 8 minutes, the X13 would perhaps help support capacity. Yes I 1000000% agree with it being an express route up to Potters Bar, I can see that being a hit. That would mean North Finchley & Whetstone are now linked up to PB. Cross border are a no-no though, that would never happen as the councils outside london would not fund it. They are just really political. I don't think we will see cross border bus routes. We even see the 258 threatened to get cut to Bushey in the bus development papers, which no one wants. Plus I know the demand personally stretches further south than GG into Cricklewood and Willesden. Saying that a Kilburn Park- Watford Xpress route would be cool though. Seeing as I'm not too familiar with the 142 route, I can't say all the stops where it calls but the idea I assume is 32 then 142 |
|
|
|
Post by uakari on Mar 13, 2022 19:30:15 GMT
Do you think an X13 every 20-30 minutes would be too infrequent to attract passengers from Barnet going south then? I thought if it is reliable it could be maybe be seen as like another train line that people could plan trips around, without reducing other routes? Which way would you run an extended 383? The old 383 routing to Potters Bar would miss Greenacre Close and the south of Potters Bar, so maybe via the old 84 to connect at Potters Bar station for onward travel to St Albans? If they kept the current 13 at the same frequency then no intially. However, what will end up happening is more people will want the X13 over most other buses along that corridor especially as it doesnt follow the High Barnet northern line branch, which would affect the other freuqencies of routes along that corridor. Xpress routes just tend to encourage modal shift onto them. Do you think that for that reason express routes can potentially disadvantage elderly people and those with mobility difficulties who may find it more difficult to walk or change buses from the limited stops? Similar to TfL's current obsession with making roundabout routes more 'direct', which may be more attractive to some younger people but especially disadvantages older and disabled people (see the 384 as a case in point). |
|
|
|
Post by wirewiper on Mar 13, 2022 19:31:17 GMT
Do you think an X13 every 20-30 minutes would be too infrequent to attract passengers from Barnet going south then? I thought if it is reliable it could be maybe be seen as like another train line that people could plan trips around, without reducing other routes? Which way would you run an extended 383? The old 383 routing to Potters Bar would miss Greenacre Close and the south of Potters Bar, so maybe via the old 84 to connect at Potters Bar station for onward travel to St Albans? If they kept the current 13 at the same frequency then no intially. However, what will end up happening is more people will want the X13 over most other buses along that corridor especially as it doesnt follow the High Barnet northern line branch, which would affect the other freuqencies of routes along that corridor. Xpress routes just tend to encourage modal shift onto them. I suspect that in a different world the Northern Line would have been extended to East Finchley and no further. The London North Eastern Railway branches to High Barnet and Edgware would have remained as lower-frequency suburban lines, and electrified at some stage. And the no. 9 tram would have been retained north of Archway with much of the route segregated and would now be operating high-capacity articulated trams. East Finchley would have become a huge purpose-built interchange for Underground, suburban rail, trams and buses. Oh sorry, I thought was on mainland Europe for a moment. |
|
|
|
Post by CircleLineofLife on Mar 13, 2022 19:53:46 GMT
If they kept the current 13 at the same frequency then no intially. However, what will end up happening is more people will want the X13 over most other buses along that corridor especially as it doesnt follow the High Barnet northern line branch, which would affect the other freuqencies of routes along that corridor. Xpress routes just tend to encourage modal shift onto them. Do you think that for that reason express routes can potentially disadvantage elderly people and those with mobility difficulties who may find it more difficult to walk or change buses from the limited stops? Similar to TfL's current obsession with making roundabout routes more 'direct', which may be more attractive to some younger people but especially disadvantages older and disabled people (see the 384 as a case in point). Well, yes and no. Journey times and milage are a big factor in how bus performance are evaluated. But I think older ppl would tend to use the non-express routes, as maybe the express route would just be too busy, there are catered to a younger demographic. It would impact journey time, but if you had all the all routes that served the trunk road overlap for a good section. There would be enough frequency to cover. Like Uxbridge rd, the 207, 427 and 607 all overlap between Acton and Hayes by pass, and your probably getting a bus every 2-3 minutes, that is pretty much spans the length of LB Ealing and a bit of hillingdon borough. So lets say if they did this with the finchley road/great north road corridor. 13, 263 and X13, there is a problem as the 13 and 263 only meet at one stop. And southbound towards GG and childs hill there would be ppl waiting for the X13 as the 263 would not create that link. So you would have to have another bus that mirrors the X13 northern half, whilst also having some overlapping sections with the 13. Techincally, the 125 helps with capacity between finchley central and whetstone, but the 125 would be a feeder route on the corridor, such as the H98 or E3. If the balance is right between the main buses that serve the corridor then I dont think it would affect ppl with mobility issues any worse than the current state of the network. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2022 10:01:30 GMT
Hatton Cross via 285 to Stanies Road then via 116 to Hounslow Bus Stn then Kingsley Road to A4 then via H91 to Hammersmith.
Or. From Hounslow via 237 to Chiswick Roundabout then direct to Hammersmith via A4
|
|
|
|
Post by Alexis on Mar 14, 2022 12:02:10 GMT
I think an X25 could be quite handy, perhaps running from Stratford to Oxford Circus as a limited stop service
Perhaps also an X15 from Central London to Canning Town and then via the A13 to Beckton or Barking
|
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Mar 14, 2022 12:47:05 GMT
I think an X25 could be quite handy, perhaps running from Stratford to Oxford Circus as a limited stop service Perhaps also an X15 from Central London to Canning Town and then via the A13 to Beckton or Barking In direct competition with Crossrail, I can't see that happening. |
|
