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Post by Dillon95 on Mar 13, 2022 11:47:58 GMT
Another idea I have is express buses from the suburbs to the city to run in the rush hours to bring down congestion on the trains. They could be a cheaper alternative to trains for commuters.
X1
Dartford Station
-non stop via A2026, A206 & Bridge Road-
Slade Green Station
-non stop via Slade Green Road & Manor Road-
Erith, Town Centre
-non stop via B213-
Belvedere Station
-non stop via B213-
Abbey Wood Station
-non stop via Harrow Manorway, Eynsham Drive & Basildon Road-
Plumstead Station/High Street
-non stop via A206-
Woolwich, Town Centre/Woolwich Arsenal Station
-non stop via A206-
Charlton Station
-non stop via A206-
Greenwich, Town Centre/Cutty Sark Station
-non stop via A200-
Deptford, High Street
-non stop via A200-
Surrey Quays Station
-non stop via A200-
Bermondsey Station
-non stop via A200-
London Bridge Station
-non stop via London Bridge-
Cannon Street Station
X2
Dartford Station
-non stop via A226 & A207-
Crayford, Town Centre
-non stop via A207-
Bexleyheath, Town Centre
-non stop via A207-
Welling Station/High Street
-non stop via A207-
Shooters Hill
-non stop via A207, A2 & B212-
Blackheath Station
-non stop via B220-
Lewisham, Town Centre
Lewisham Station
-non stop via A20-
New Cross Gate Station
-non stop via A2-
Old Kent Road, Tesco
-non stop via A2, A100 & A200-
London Bridge Station
-non stop via London Bridge-
Cannon Street Station
X3
Swanley, Asda
-non stop via B2173 & A211-
Foots Cray, High Street
-non stop via A211-
Sidcup, High Street
-non stop via A211-
New Eltham Station
-non stop via A211-
Eltham, High Street
-non stop via A210 & A20-
Lee Green, The Old Tiger’s Head
-non stop via A20-
Lewisham, Town Centre
Lewisham Station
-non stop via A20-
New Cross Gate Station
-non stop via A2-
Old Kent Road, Tesco
-non stop via A2, A100 & A200-
London Bridge Station
-non stop via London Bridge-
Cannon Street Station
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Post by LondonNorthern on Mar 13, 2022 11:51:32 GMT
An X13 every 30 minutes would be more reasonable yes & in a way I would support that providing the 263 remains at its current frequency. The reason why I am so against however having an every 20 minute service down to East Finchley is because there are large crowds of people that board there, and a great number disband past North Finchley up the Great North Road, of which the 17 would NOT compensate for. There are also more personal reasons certainly that I know of behind why some people board at East Finchley & that is because of the steepness of Barnet Hill meaning that they would struggle leaving High Barnet Station walking up to the bus stop & until that issue is fixed I think there is still a case for the 263 to have a full service running through to High Barnet. My worry is more on the Highbury section of which sees very high usage up to Archway, with the 271 soon to be killed off & the 43 freq reduction the 6bph on the 263 is still needed. I can’t see a 17 freq increase because of it reaching Central London, and that’s already seen a cut. Do you think people would use an X13 every 30 minutes if it were reliable and ran all day? If the 263 would stay at the same frequency do you think the X13 should be express all the way or just express south of North Finchley? If the latter, could it make up for the lost 84 and run from Potters Bar? Could definitely see use and I imagine there is quite a strong amount of demand from GG up to Barnet, plus if it does end up growing in popularity it could be adjusted to run more frequently. In the past few years demand on the 263 really has grown, probably to the point now where it really should be running every 8 minutes, the X13 would perhaps help support capacity. Yes I 1000000% agree with it being an express route up to Potters Bar, I can see that being a hit. That would mean North Finchley & Whetstone are now linked up to PB. |
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Post by WH241 on Mar 13, 2022 11:52:50 GMT
Another idea I have is express buses from the suburbs to the city to run in the rush hours to bring down congestion on the trains. They could be a cheaper alternative to trains for commuters. X1 Dartford Station -non stop via A2026, A206 & Bridge Road- Slade Green Station -non stop via Slade Green Road & Manor Road- Erith, Town Centre -non stop via B213- Belvedere Station -non stop via B213- Abbey Wood Station -non stop via Harrow Manorway, Eynsham Drive & Basildon Road- Plumstead Station/High Street -non stop via A206- Woolwich, Town Centre/Woolwich Arsenal Station -non stop via A206- Charlton Station -non stop via A206- Greenwich, Town Centre/Cutty Sark Station -non stop via A200- Deptford, High Street -non stop via A200- Surrey Quays Station -non stop via A200- Bermondsey Station -non stop via A200- London Bridge Station -non stop via London Bridge- Cannon Street Station X2 Dartford Station -non stop via A226 & A207- Crayford, Town Centre -non stop via A207- Bexleyheath, Town Centre -non stop via A207- Welling Station/High Street -non stop via A207- Shooters Hill -non stop via A207, A2 & B212- Blackheath Station -non stop via B220- Lewisham, Town Centre Lewisham Station -non stop via A20- New Cross Gate Station -non stop via A2- Old Kent Road, Tesco -non stop via A2, A100 & A200- London Bridge Station -non stop via London Bridge- Cannon Street Station X3 Swanley, Asda -non stop via B2173 & A211- Foots Cray, High Street -non stop via A211- Sidcup, High Street -non stop via A211- New Eltham Station -non stop via A211- Eltham, High Street -non stop via A210 & A20- Lee Green, The Old Tiger’s Head -non stop via A20- Lewisham, Town Centre Lewisham Station -non stop via A20- New Cross Gate Station -non stop via A2- Old Kent Road, Tesco -non stop via A2, A100 & A200- London Bridge Station -non stop via London Bridge- Cannon Street Station Can’t see these type of services working. Pretty much all commuter coach services all have given up because of lack of demand and congestion. The Elizabeth line will take some pressure off other services once it opens this year. |
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Post by wirewiper on Mar 13, 2022 11:59:36 GMT
Another idea I have is express buses from the suburbs to the city to run in the rush hours to bring down congestion on the trains. They could be a cheaper alternative to trains for commuters. X1 Dartford Station -non stop via A2026, A206 & Bridge Road- Slade Green Station -non stop via Slade Green Road & Manor Road- Erith, Town Centre -non stop via B213- Belvedere Station -non stop via B213- Abbey Wood Station -non stop via Harrow Manorway, Eynsham Drive & Basildon Road- Plumstead Station/High Street -non stop via A206- Woolwich, Town Centre/Woolwich Arsenal Station -non stop via A206- Charlton Station -non stop via A206- Greenwich, Town Centre/Cutty Sark Station -non stop via A200- Deptford, High Street -non stop via A200- Surrey Quays Station -non stop via A200- Bermondsey Station -non stop via A200- London Bridge Station -non stop via London Bridge- Cannon Street Station X2 Dartford Station -non stop via A226 & A207- Crayford, Town Centre -non stop via A207- Bexleyheath, Town Centre -non stop via A207- Welling Station/High Street -non stop via A207- Shooters Hill -non stop via A207, A2 & B212- Blackheath Station -non stop via B220- Lewisham, Town Centre Lewisham Station -non stop via A20- New Cross Gate Station -non stop via A2- Old Kent Road, Tesco -non stop via A2, A100 & A200- London Bridge Station -non stop via London Bridge- Cannon Street Station X3 Swanley, Asda -non stop via B2173 & A211- Foots Cray, High Street -non stop via A211- Sidcup, High Street -non stop via A211- New Eltham Station -non stop via A211- Eltham, High Street -non stop via A210 & A20- Lee Green, The Old Tiger’s Head -non stop via A20- Lewisham, Town Centre Lewisham Station -non stop via A20- New Cross Gate Station -non stop via A2- Old Kent Road, Tesco -non stop via A2, A100 & A200- London Bridge Station -non stop via London Bridge- Cannon Street Station These are nice ideas. The problem though is that peak-hour only services are very expensive to resource so TfL would either need to accept losses, or charge a premium fare. Peak-time train travel hasn't returned to anything like its pre-pandemic level, and the new patterns of working are making a full return unlikely. There is still the same amount of train capacity (and the Elizabeth Line will add considerably more) so to reduce congestion on trains it would be better to make sure that the capacity is effectively deployed where it is most needed. |
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Post by uakari on Mar 13, 2022 12:03:26 GMT
Do you think people would use an X13 every 30 minutes if it were reliable and ran all day? If the 263 would stay at the same frequency do you think the X13 should be express all the way or just express south of North Finchley? If the latter, could it make up for the lost 84 and run from Potters Bar? Could definitely see use and I imagine there is quite a strong amount of demand from GG up to Barnet, plus if it does end up growing in popularity it could be adjusted to run more frequently. In the past few years demand on the 263 really has grown, probably to the point now where it really should be running every 8 minutes, the X13 would perhaps help support capacity. Yes I 1000000% agree with it being an express route up to Potters Bar, I can see that being a hit. That would mean North Finchley & Whetstone are now linked up to PB. To replace the 84 properly and include Hadley Highstone, it should probably run all stops between Potters Bar and Barnet High Street though. The part between Greenacre Close and Potters Bar is almost express by default as not many stops. I believe the Sullivan Buses route 84 will only do round Potters Bar in a clockwise loop so a route from Barnet via the old 84 to Potters Bar station would also be useful. Or via The Walk. Mutton Lane already has the 298 and 313. Potters Bar is an awkward layout as Darkes Lane is the second high street but the actual High Street is also quite busy and you have the hospital and area south of there that won't have any bus soon. |
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Post by vjaska on Mar 13, 2022 12:18:05 GMT
Could definitely see use and I imagine there is quite a strong amount of demand from GG up to Barnet, plus if it does end up growing in popularity it could be adjusted to run more frequently. In the past few years demand on the 263 really has grown, probably to the point now where it really should be running every 8 minutes, the X13 would perhaps help support capacity. Yes I 1000000% agree with it being an express route up to Potters Bar, I can see that being a hit. That would mean North Finchley & Whetstone are now linked up to PB. To replace the 84 properly and include Hadley Highstone, it should probably run all stops between Potters Bar and Barnet High Street though. The part between Greenacre Close and Potters Bar is almost express by default as not many stops. I believe the Sullivan Buses route 84 will only do round Potters Bar in a clockwise loop so a route to Barnet via the old 84 to Potters Bar station would also be useful. Unless the X13 is running every 20-30 minutes which I doubt it would as it would make no sense to run it at such a frequency, I don’t see a logical reason for it replacing the 84 either. The 383 extension is the most realistic idea I’ve seen for that particular situation, shame it isn’t happening. Sullivan Buses 84 will indeed run from St Albans & loop around Potters Bar I also don’t think extending the 17 such a long way is a great idea as it would potentially hurt it’s reliability ending up longer than the current 263 |
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Post by uakari on Mar 13, 2022 12:23:53 GMT
To replace the 84 properly and include Hadley Highstone, it should probably run all stops between Potters Bar and Barnet High Street though. The part between Greenacre Close and Potters Bar is almost express by default as not many stops. I believe the Sullivan Buses route 84 will only do round Potters Bar in a clockwise loop so a route to Barnet via the old 84 to Potters Bar station would also be useful. Unless the X13 is running every 20-30 minutes which I doubt it would as it would make no sense to run it at such a frequency, I don’t see a logical reason for it replacing the 84 either. The 383 extension is the most realistic idea I’ve seen for that particular situation, shame it isn’t happening. Sullivan Buses 84 will indeed run from St Albans & loop around Potters Bar I also don’t think extending the 17 such a long way is a great idea as it would potentially hurt it’s reliability ending up longer than the current 263 Do you think an X13 every 20-30 minutes would be too infrequent to attract passengers from Barnet going south then? I thought if it is reliable it could be maybe be seen as like another train line that people could plan trips around, without reducing other routes? Which way would you run an extended 383? The old 383 routing to Potters Bar would miss Greenacre Close and the south of Potters Bar, so maybe via the old 84 to connect at Potters Bar station for onward travel to St Albans? |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Mar 13, 2022 12:28:31 GMT
Unless the X13 is running every 20-30 minutes which I doubt it would as it would make no sense to run it at such a frequency, I don’t see a logical reason for it replacing the 84 either. The 383 extension is the most realistic idea I’ve seen for that particular situation, shame it isn’t happening. Sullivan Buses 84 will indeed run from St Albans & loop around Potters Bar I also don’t think extending the 17 such a long way is a great idea as it would potentially hurt it’s reliability ending up longer than the current 263 Do you think an X13 every 20-30 minutes would be too infrequent to attract passengers from Barnet going south then? I thought if it is reliable it could be maybe be seen as like another train line that people could plan trips around, without reducing other routes? Which way would you run an extended 383? The old 383 routing to Potters Bar would miss Greenacre Close and the south of Potters Bar, so maybe via the old 84 to connect at Potters Bar station for onward travel to St Albans? The X13 would also be frequent enough & direct enough to perhaps encourage a modal switch compared to the 383. |
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Post by danorak on Mar 13, 2022 12:38:39 GMT
I can't see the 53X returning especially with Crossrail imminent. If this Old Kent Road express does happen it will probably be no more than Oxford Circus to Deptford or maybe Lewisham with a reduction on the 53 and 453, a good opportunity to reduce the Marylebone section. A lot depends on what problem it is trying to solve. People living around the Old Kent Road are unlikely to get much benefit from a route that doesn't stop on it. If you're shopping at Old Kent Road Tesco, you need to be able to get off where you live rather than being carted off to Lidl or forced to change again. So is it going to be about faster journeys to the centre? I could see the 53/453/X53 model outlined above happening, with a limited stop X53 from Woolwich to somewhere in the centre (there's a lot of journeys from Woolwich to New Cross, Elephant etc that Crossrail won't solve) with the 53 pulled back to New Cross. But equally I wouldn't be surprised if a new route started at Lewisham and was an economy version of the Bakerloo line extension. |
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Post by Trafalgax on Mar 13, 2022 12:53:07 GMT
This is more of a limited stop route, but i'm gonna reintroduce my X253 idea which would run from Aldgate to Euston. Mainly because it doesn't really parallel any rail services and the 253/254 corriders are still quite busy.
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Post by vjaska on Mar 13, 2022 13:37:49 GMT
Unless the X13 is running every 20-30 minutes which I doubt it would as it would make no sense to run it at such a frequency, I don’t see a logical reason for it replacing the 84 either. The 383 extension is the most realistic idea I’ve seen for that particular situation, shame it isn’t happening. Sullivan Buses 84 will indeed run from St Albans & loop around Potters Bar I also don’t think extending the 17 such a long way is a great idea as it would potentially hurt it’s reliability ending up longer than the current 263 Do you think an X13 every 20-30 minutes would be too infrequent to attract passengers from Barnet going south then? I thought if it is reliable it could be maybe be seen as like another train line that people could plan trips around, without reducing other routes? Which way would you run an extended 383? The old 383 routing to Potters Bar would miss Greenacre Close and the south of Potters Bar, so maybe via the old 84 to connect at Potters Bar station for onward travel to St Albans? I’d have the 383 run via the current 84 and loop around Potters Bar with a hesitation point at the garage so passengers can connect onto the 84 at Potters Bar I don’t see a X13 running every 20-30 minutes as attractive personally - the X140 & 607 are more frequent whilst the only regular every 30 minute express/limited is one that contains a bunch of links that are more unique. A X13 would have to be every 10-12 at least and my worry with that is TfL would use it as an excuse to cut other routes. I think an Edgware to Enfield express route would be a great proposal only if the 384 was returned to its previous duties & if the 307 was left as it is |
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Post by ServerKing on Mar 13, 2022 13:47:03 GMT
Another idea I have is express buses from the suburbs to the city to run in the rush hours to bring down congestion on the trains. They could be a cheaper alternative to trains for commuters. X1 Dartford Station -non stop via A2026, A206 & Bridge Road- Slade Green Station -non stop via Slade Green Road & Manor Road- Erith, Town Centre -non stop via B213- Belvedere Station -non stop via B213- Abbey Wood Station -non stop via Harrow Manorway, Eynsham Drive & Basildon Road- Plumstead Station/High Street -non stop via A206- Woolwich, Town Centre/Woolwich Arsenal Station -non stop via A206- Charlton Station -non stop via A206- Greenwich, Town Centre/Cutty Sark Station -non stop via A200- Deptford, High Street -non stop via A200- Surrey Quays Station -non stop via A200- Bermondsey Station -non stop via A200- London Bridge Station -non stop via London Bridge- Cannon Street Station X2 Dartford Station -non stop via A226 & A207- Crayford, Town Centre -non stop via A207- Bexleyheath, Town Centre -non stop via A207- Welling Station/High Street -non stop via A207- Shooters Hill -non stop via A207, A2 & B212- Blackheath Station -non stop via B220- Lewisham, Town Centre Lewisham Station -non stop via A20- New Cross Gate Station -non stop via A2- Old Kent Road, Tesco -non stop via A2, A100 & A200- London Bridge Station -non stop via London Bridge- Cannon Street Station X3 Swanley, Asda -non stop via B2173 & A211- Foots Cray, High Street -non stop via A211- Sidcup, High Street -non stop via A211- New Eltham Station -non stop via A211- Eltham, High Street -non stop via A210 & A20- Lee Green, The Old Tiger’s Head -non stop via A20- Lewisham, Town Centre Lewisham Station -non stop via A20- New Cross Gate Station -non stop via A2- Old Kent Road, Tesco -non stop via A2, A100 & A200- London Bridge Station -non stop via London Bridge- Cannon Street Station TfL will have to get permission from BMW to use X1, X2, X3 for branding   |
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Post by Dillon95 on Mar 13, 2022 16:01:10 GMT
Another idea I have is express buses from the suburbs to the city to run in the rush hours to bring down congestion on the trains. They could be a cheaper alternative to trains for commuters. X1 Dartford Station -non stop via A2026, A206 & Bridge Road- Slade Green Station -non stop via Slade Green Road & Manor Road- Erith, Town Centre -non stop via B213- Belvedere Station -non stop via B213- Abbey Wood Station -non stop via Harrow Manorway, Eynsham Drive & Basildon Road- Plumstead Station/High Street -non stop via A206- Woolwich, Town Centre/Woolwich Arsenal Station -non stop via A206- Charlton Station -non stop via A206- Greenwich, Town Centre/Cutty Sark Station -non stop via A200- Deptford, High Street -non stop via A200- Surrey Quays Station -non stop via A200- Bermondsey Station -non stop via A200- London Bridge Station -non stop via London Bridge- Cannon Street Station X2 Dartford Station -non stop via A226 & A207- Crayford, Town Centre -non stop via A207- Bexleyheath, Town Centre -non stop via A207- Welling Station/High Street -non stop via A207- Shooters Hill -non stop via A207, A2 & B212- Blackheath Station -non stop via B220- Lewisham, Town Centre Lewisham Station -non stop via A20- New Cross Gate Station -non stop via A2- Old Kent Road, Tesco -non stop via A2, A100 & A200- London Bridge Station -non stop via London Bridge- Cannon Street Station X3 Swanley, Asda -non stop via B2173 & A211- Foots Cray, High Street -non stop via A211- Sidcup, High Street -non stop via A211- New Eltham Station -non stop via A211- Eltham, High Street -non stop via A210 & A20- Lee Green, The Old Tiger’s Head -non stop via A20- Lewisham, Town Centre Lewisham Station -non stop via A20- New Cross Gate Station -non stop via A2- Old Kent Road, Tesco -non stop via A2, A100 & A200- London Bridge Station -non stop via London Bridge- Cannon Street Station TfL will have to get permission from BMW to use X1, X2, X3 for branding Haha very true, hadn’t thought of that. |
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Post by route53 on Mar 13, 2022 16:11:12 GMT
There should definitely be an outer Surburban express to overlap with the X26, this was promised a number of years ago when our current PM was our mayor, this could be the 725 from Bluewater to Sutton, with the X26 remembered back to the 726.
I hope this will lead to the return of the X53, either as a limited stop (like the 607 or X26 or all stops at the extremities with a non stope section in the middle (like the X68) there’s no reason why CrossRail should effect a potential X53, seeing as CrossRail and the 53/453 routes go via completely different routes between Woolwich and the West End, I also don’t see why the 53 would be cut back any further than E&C, if anything I can see the 53/453 being reduced in frequency.
A limited stop X53 could serve the following places
Plumstead Station, then via the A206 direct to Woolwich, Charlton Village, Blackheath Royal Standard, New Cross, E&C, Lambeth North, County Hall, Whitehall then Trafalgar Sq or have the X53 run all stops to Blackheath then non stop to E&C,
If the 180 changes do go ahead I’d be happy if they introduced a X177 to compensate for the loss of capacity along the Woolwich-Greenwich corridor, limited stop of course.
I’d also be down with an X176 too
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Post by LondonExplorer316 on Mar 13, 2022 16:59:35 GMT
They could but in this case I don't think an express service is needed. I think a 460 extension would be far better because it is a cheaper alternative without adding more buses onto corridors.
I do wonder whether 5bph extra might be excessive between NF & Barnet though, especially north of Whetstone.
I like the idea of extending the 460 but I also the idea of an X13 from Barnet to Victoria if there was some way of making it work without sacrificing too many other connections. This is because it would be along a straight line corridor serving busy town centres and then into central London, but one that doesn't have a single bus or tube line linking it all the way, which seems ideal for a new express route. Perhaps the 17 could be boosted in frequency and extended to North Finchley to make up for a reduced 263 frequency and the X13 could work similarly to the X68, serving all stops between Barnet Hospital (or Potters Bar) and North Finchley? South of North Finchley it could then call at: - Finchley Central station - Temple Fortune - Golders Green station - Child's Hill (Cricklewood Lane) - Finchley Road station - Swiss Cottage station - St John's Wood (Lord's) - Baker Street station - Selfridges - Marble Arch - Hyde Park Corner - Victoria I could see an X260 form instead via existing 260 and just straight up to Potters Bar with a loop for New Barnet. It would serve all stops until PB Stn to cover the 84 section. It would call at: White City Bus Station Shepherd's Bush Station Shepherd's Bush Market Station East Acton Lane/Savoy Circus Acton Main Line Station North Acton Station Central Middlesex Hospital Harlesden Station Willesden Junction Station Harlesden Jubilee Clock/Willesden County Court (renamed 18, 260 and 266 stop) Harlesden Police Station Willesden Magistrates Court Meyrick Road for Willesden Bus Garage Willesden Green Station Cricklewood Station for the Broadway Golders Green Stn Finchley Central Station North Finchley Bus Station Whetstone/The Griffin New Barnet Stn Calls at every 84 stop up to Potters Bar Stn |
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