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Post by route53 on May 15, 2022 10:44:39 GMT
It still has it's moments in Brixton and Brixton Hill - in the space of two days, we have had a usual stabbing and then a shotgun wielding maniac looking for a specific target. The Brixton vs Peckham war has largely ended probably because gang culture grew more wide spread rather than contained within certain postcodes. Thornton Heath & West Croydon are awful whereas south & east of the town centre (bar New Addington, a place which would be lovely if the people were removed), it's still pretty nice. I think with Croydon the closer you get to Shirley heading east, or Purley heading south, the less rough it is. Purley and Shirley are definitely the nicer, posher bits of Croydon, South Croydon isn’t half bad either. But Central Croydon is horrible, I used to live in Sydenham and I used to shop in Croydon in the mid 2000s, 2004-2006 it was a nice town, this was around the time the Centrale opened two shopping centres right opposite each other because the town was booming at that point, decent shops, less yobs in those days. Went back in 2010 and the rot was beginning to set, and after the riots in 2011 the town started going downhill rapidly, I went back for the first time in nearly a decade last year and it was unrecognisable, yobs and gangs everywhere in the daytime, the old Allders now some strange alleyway with cheap shops, Something very post apocalyptic about Croydon. I live in Blackheath now, but moving in the next few weeks to East Dulwich hopefully, they can say what they like about South East London I’ll always love it here! More green spaces, proper villages, nice pubs, what’s not to like about it? 😁 |
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Post by danorak on May 15, 2022 11:38:34 GMT
I think with Croydon the closer you get to Shirley heading east, or Purley heading south, the less rough it is. Purley and Shirley are definitely the nicer, posher bits of Croydon, South Croydon isn’t half bad either. But Central Croydon is horrible, I used to live in Sydenham and I used to shop in Croydon in the mid 2000s, 2004-2006 it was a nice town, this was around the time the Centrale opened two shopping centres right opposite each other because the town was booming at that point, decent shops, less yobs in those days. Went back in 2010 and the rot was beginning to set, and after the riots in 2011 the town started going downhill rapidly, I went back for the first time in nearly a decade last year and it was unrecognisable, yobs and gangs everywhere in the daytime, the old Allders now some strange alleyway with cheap shops, Something very post apocalyptic about Croydon. I live in Blackheath now, but moving in the next few weeks to East Dulwich hopefully, they can say what they like about South East London I’ll always love it here! More green spaces, proper villages, nice pubs, what’s not to like about it? 😁 Your experience of Croydon echoes mine. I used to go regularly, particularly when Beano's second hand record shop was there. But the need to change to a tram, the loss of Allders and the rundown of the Whitgift Centre to prepare for a development that's not happening has made it not worth the effort. |
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Post by MKAY315 on May 15, 2022 11:40:30 GMT
Perhaps someone like ServerKing can answer this but there’s usually police stood at one bus stop in Tottenham on the A10, can’t remember the name but they might’ve been the same enforcement officers from when the 149 was bendy Ever since the creation of the "free bus" on the 149 with the first bendy buses (very poor enforcement of fares with "surprises" of Revenue teams and police at key stops like Seven Sisters, Stoke Newington and Edmonton Green) the route has been used by some gangstas and Road Men coming up from the South to settle scores with the likes of NPK and Edmonton Mandem. Some have travelled up on the Overground from Liverpool Street (ticket gates not always in operation at Edmonton Green) so they like to catch the fare dodgers there too. Factor in rowdy schoolkids and things kicking off (police are always out in Wood Green stopping the coming together of at least 4 high schools in the area) Tottenham has always been associated with the notorious Broadwater Farm Estate, and the OFB (Original Farm Boys) are still around, though most of the wrong'uns have been moved to Cheshunt (Cheshunt is Haringey's Rwanda) and the estate is getting a minor refresh. Though I fear this is like the 318s refresh in 2019, meaning the majority of it is still knackered  some tower blocks are being pulled down, new homes being built, and like Spurs under Antonio Conte, is getting slightly better  Gentrification has drawn the sandal-wearing, free trade loving Chiswick types into Downhills Park and West Green, Little Russia (from the Enfield border down to White Hart Lane) is seeing a similar renaissance as property prices continue to escalate (I think this a way to push more riff-raff out through higher rents to the Shires and Essex), Spurs owner Daniel Levy wants to build a cinema for some reason and transform the area with a hub called the Filmworks, as we try to ape Ealing Broadway  Harold Hill is a place that has really changed, like some parts of Dagenham, with new homes and a nicer feel to the place. Harlesden and Park Royal are still grotty, but seems to be under curfew with not much drama as back in the day. I still go out that way to work near Acton Lane. 224 bus drivers still don't know how to alight at bus stops and park with the back of the bus pointing out into traffic, a cheeky way to make cars give way for when they want to move off again. Always on the road from the Swaminarayan Temple down to the junction with Acton Lane  I haven't been down to Norbury and Thornton Heath for years, and West Croydon as I used to back in the day... sometimes I go down to Gold Coast on Portland Road in South Norwood where there good Ghanaian restaurant  I think that horrible 20 zone on Beulah Hill deters me...  Broadwater Farm. That estate. I have to give my hats off to the W4 bus drivers. I haven't been in that estate since the early to mid 2000s |
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Post by vjaska on May 15, 2022 12:21:26 GMT
I think with Croydon the closer you get to Shirley heading east, or Purley heading south, the less rough it is. Purley and Shirley are definitely the nicer, posher bits of Croydon, South Croydon isn’t half bad either. But Central Croydon is horrible, I used to live in Sydenham and I used to shop in Croydon in the mid 2000s, 2004-2006 it was a nice town, this was around the time the Centrale opened two shopping centres right opposite each other because the town was booming at that point, decent shops, less yobs in those days. Went back in 2010 and the rot was beginning to set, and after the riots in 2011 the town started going downhill rapidly, I went back for the first time in nearly a decade last year and it was unrecognisable, yobs and gangs everywhere in the daytime, the old Allders now some strange alleyway with cheap shops, Something very post apocalyptic about Croydon. I live in Blackheath now, but moving in the next few weeks to East Dulwich hopefully, they can say what they like about South East London I’ll always love it here! More green spaces, proper villages, nice pubs, what’s not to like about it? 😁 Pretty much tallies with my own experience of Croydon - we used to enjoy shopping there during the 00’s especially as it’s quite accessible from Lambeth but once the decline set in, we changed our shopping habits and went elsewhere. I was there about a couple of months ago and Whitgift was like a morgue, such a dead atmosphere and lots of shops closed permanently - such stark contrast to the high street in Brixton which is quite resilient even though we unexpectedly lost our lovely Costa recently |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2022 14:19:27 GMT
Purley and Shirley are definitely the nicer, posher bits of Croydon, South Croydon isn’t half bad either. But Central Croydon is horrible, I used to live in Sydenham and I used to shop in Croydon in the mid 2000s, 2004-2006 it was a nice town, this was around the time the Centrale opened two shopping centres right opposite each other because the town was booming at that point, decent shops, less yobs in those days. Went back in 2010 and the rot was beginning to set, and after the riots in 2011 the town started going downhill rapidly, I went back for the first time in nearly a decade last year and it was unrecognisable, yobs and gangs everywhere in the daytime, the old Allders now some strange alleyway with cheap shops, Something very post apocalyptic about Croydon. I live in Blackheath now, but moving in the next few weeks to East Dulwich hopefully, they can say what they like about South East London I’ll always love it here! More green spaces, proper villages, nice pubs, what’s not to like about it? 😁 Pretty much tallies with my own experience of Croydon - we used to enjoy shopping there during the 00’s especially as it’s quite accessible from Lambeth but once the decline set in, we changed our shopping habits and went elsewhere. I was there about a couple of months ago and Whitgift was like a morgue, such a dead atmosphere and lots of shops closed permanently - such stark contrast to the high street in Brixton which is quite resilient even though we unexpectedly lost our lovely Costa recently Mind you as dead and abandoned as they are, the Whitgift and Centrale in Croydon feel lively compared to the indoor shopping bits in Dartford and Orpington. They are stone dead, and so bleak. |
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Post by rift on May 15, 2022 14:22:31 GMT
Purley and Shirley are definitely the nicer, posher bits of Croydon, South Croydon isn’t half bad either. But Central Croydon is horrible, I used to live in Sydenham and I used to shop in Croydon in the mid 2000s, 2004-2006 it was a nice town, this was around the time the Centrale opened two shopping centres right opposite each other because the town was booming at that point, decent shops, less yobs in those days. Went back in 2010 and the rot was beginning to set, and after the riots in 2011 the town started going downhill rapidly, I went back for the first time in nearly a decade last year and it was unrecognisable, yobs and gangs everywhere in the daytime, the old Allders now some strange alleyway with cheap shops, Something very post apocalyptic about Croydon. I live in Blackheath now, but moving in the next few weeks to East Dulwich hopefully, they can say what they like about South East London I’ll always love it here! More green spaces, proper villages, nice pubs, what’s not to like about it? 😁 Pretty much tallies with my own experience of Croydon - we used to enjoy shopping there during the 00’s especially as it’s quite accessible from Lambeth but once the decline set in, we changed our shopping habits and went elsewhere. I was there about a couple of months ago and Whitgift was like a morgue, such a dead atmosphere and lots of shops closed permanently - such stark contrast to the high street in Brixton which is quite resilient even though we unexpectedly lost our lovely Costa recently Most of the declining seems to be around Central and West Croydon, the latter being a very ‘entertaining’ place especially during the daytime. East Croydon seems to have bucked the trend and is doing decent from what I’ve seen. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2022 15:00:00 GMT
Pretty much tallies with my own experience of Croydon - we used to enjoy shopping there during the 00’s especially as it’s quite accessible from Lambeth but once the decline set in, we changed our shopping habits and went elsewhere. I was there about a couple of months ago and Whitgift was like a morgue, such a dead atmosphere and lots of shops closed permanently - such stark contrast to the high street in Brixton which is quite resilient even though we unexpectedly lost our lovely Costa recently Most of the declining seems to be around Central and West Croydon, the latter being a very ‘entertaining’ place especially during the daytime. East Croydon seems to have bucked the trend and is doing decent from what I’ve seen. Yeah that Box Park place next to East Croydon station is nice, and it’s always lively on Friday and Saturday nights. |
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Post by route53 on May 15, 2022 15:15:16 GMT
A lot of the comments seems to relate to what I’ve always thought about the ‘dying high street’ it’s not so much that the high street is dying it’s town centres, if I’m too look at Town centres across the outer South London ring, Dartford, Bexleyheath, Orpington, Bromley, Croydon, Sutton and Kingston, only Bromley and Kingston seem to still have life and vibrancy (having been to Bromley the other day I stand corrected that it’s dead or dying) and Kingston has basically become what Croydon wanted to be in the 90s/00s; a city in its own right.
Add Woolwich & Lewisham and again Woolwich is in rapid decline with the area around Woolwich CrossRail station becoming a newer, posher, yuppified Woolwich and the old town centre losing more and more shops, Lewisham is being revitalised now, but was in neglect for a long time in the last decade or so.
On the other hand, smaller high streets like Lordship Lane in East Dulwich, Rye Lane in Peckham and the Greenwich Cutty Sark area are all busy and bustling shopping areas that have recovered from covid, and attracting all the middle classes and those from further afield too.
I’m hoping that Kidbrooke Village and a regenerated Thamesmead will also finally realise their potential and become little urban villages in their own right, ones that cater for all walks of life and not just the middle classes, Brixton has the good balance of this.
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Post by LondonNorthern on May 15, 2022 15:41:33 GMT
“On the other hand, smaller high streets like Lordship Lane in East Dulwich, Rye Lane in Peckham and the Greenwich Cutty Sark area are all busy and bustling shopping areas that have recovered from covid, and attracting all the middle classes and those from further afield too.
I’m hoping that Kidbrooke Village and a regenerated Thamesmead will also finally realise their potential and become little urban villages in their own right, ones that cater for all walks of life and not just the middle classes, Brixton has the good balance of this” (didn’t quote sorry).[/quote]
We have a similar affair in N London, Highgate Village, Hampstead, Golders Green, Angel, Holloway Nags Head, Newington Green, Stoke Newington, Crouch End, Barnet etc all have their charms as little shopping areas and high streets & as you say they do attract shoppers from elsewhere in order to enjoy experiences such as markets, unique local shops, going for a nice walk & there being lovely green spaces. Of course there are still retail-orientated high streets as well and major shopping centres such as Brent Cross & Wood Green Shopping City still experience lots of custom.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2022 15:50:35 GMT
A lot of the comments seems to relate to what I’ve always thought about the ‘dying high street’ it’s not so much that the high street is dying it’s town centres, if I’m too look at Town centres across the outer South London ring, Dartford, Bexleyheath, Orpington, Bromley, Croydon, Sutton and Kingston, only Bromley and Kingston seem to still have life and vibrancy (having been to Bromley the other day I stand corrected that it’s dead or dying) and Kingston has basically become what Croydon wanted to be in the 90s/00s; a city in its own right. Add Woolwich & Lewisham and again Woolwich is in rapid decline with the area around Woolwich CrossRail station becoming a newer, posher, yuppified Woolwich and the old town centre losing more and more shops, Lewisham is being revitalised now, but was in neglect for a long time in the last decade or so. On the other hand, smaller high streets like Lordship Lane in East Dulwich, Rye Lane in Peckham and the Greenwich Cutty Sark area are all busy and bustling shopping areas that have recovered from covid, and attracting all the middle classes and those from further afield too. I’m hoping that Kidbrooke Village and a regenerated Thamesmead will also finally realise their potential and become little urban villages in their own right, ones that cater for all walks of life and not just the middle classes, Brixton has the good balance of this. The thing is Amazon, clothes sites like ASOS and Boohoo, and streaming platforms have taken such a chunk of shoppers away from high streets and town centres. Posh shopping centres like Westfield and Bluewater or Oxford Street and places like that are still busy because it’s more of a day out than just going to boring Bexleyheath or Croydon with all the empty shops. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on May 15, 2022 15:59:37 GMT
A lot of the comments seems to relate to what I’ve always thought about the ‘dying high street’ it’s not so much that the high street is dying it’s town centres, if I’m too look at Town centres across the outer South London ring, Dartford, Bexleyheath, Orpington, Bromley, Croydon, Sutton and Kingston, only Bromley and Kingston seem to still have life and vibrancy (having been to Bromley the other day I stand corrected that it’s dead or dying) and Kingston has basically become what Croydon wanted to be in the 90s/00s; a city in its own right. Add Woolwich & Lewisham and again Woolwich is in rapid decline with the area around Woolwich CrossRail station becoming a newer, posher, yuppified Woolwich and the old town centre losing more and more shops, Lewisham is being revitalised now, but was in neglect for a long time in the last decade or so. On the other hand, smaller high streets like Lordship Lane in East Dulwich, Rye Lane in Peckham and the Greenwich Cutty Sark area are all busy and bustling shopping areas that have recovered from covid, and attracting all the middle classes and those from further afield too. I’m hoping that Kidbrooke Village and a regenerated Thamesmead will also finally realise their potential and become little urban villages in their own right, ones that cater for all walks of life and not just the middle classes, Brixton has the good balance of this. The thing is Amazon, clothes sites like ASOS and Boohoo, and streaming platforms have taken such a chunk of shoppers away from high streets and town centres. Posh shopping centres like Westfield and Bluewater or Oxford Street and places like that are still busy because it’s more of a day out than just going to boring Bexleyheath or Croydon with all the empty shops. I imagine with the change in ideology over the past 20 years amongst us humans wanting more has probably only fuelled the online shopping industry because there are plenty of people who want something & they want it now. Probably not helped by public figures like Kardashians (who I believe are the scum of the earth!) who seemingly thrive off scamming people with their “products” |
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Post by WH241 on May 15, 2022 16:09:43 GMT
A lot of the comments seems to relate to what I’ve always thought about the ‘dying high street’ it’s not so much that the high street is dying it’s town centres, if I’m too look at Town centres across the outer South London ring, Dartford, Bexleyheath, Orpington, Bromley, Croydon, Sutton and Kingston, only Bromley and Kingston seem to still have life and vibrancy (having been to Bromley the other day I stand corrected that it’s dead or dying) and Kingston has basically become what Croydon wanted to be in the 90s/00s; a city in its own right. Add Woolwich & Lewisham and again Woolwich is in rapid decline with the area around Woolwich CrossRail station becoming a newer, posher, yuppified Woolwich and the old town centre losing more and more shops, Lewisham is being revitalised now, but was in neglect for a long time in the last decade or so. On the other hand, smaller high streets like Lordship Lane in East Dulwich, Rye Lane in Peckham and the Greenwich Cutty Sark area are all busy and bustling shopping areas that have recovered from covid, and attracting all the middle classes and those from further afield too. I’m hoping that Kidbrooke Village and a regenerated Thamesmead will also finally realise their potential and become little urban villages in their own right, ones that cater for all walks of life and not just the middle classes, Brixton has the good balance of this. The thing is Amazon, clothes sites like ASOS and Boohoo, and streaming platforms have taken such a chunk of shoppers away from high streets and town centres. Posh shopping centres like Westfield and Bluewater or Oxford Street and places like that are still busy because it’s more of a day out than just going to boring Bexleyheath or Croydon with all the empty shops. Personally think we could see a return to more in person shopping as people have to tighten budgets and go and hunt out bargains. There is also a downturn in streaming as people have to tighten budgets. Said something similar before but don’t think online shopping will carry on in its current form for ever. Online retailers are facing huge number of returns where people buy in bulk and only keep one or two things. |
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Post by SILENCED on May 15, 2022 16:16:53 GMT
A lot of the comments seems to relate to what I’ve always thought about the ‘dying high street’ it’s not so much that the high street is dying it’s town centres, if I’m too look at Town centres across the outer South London ring, Dartford, Bexleyheath, Orpington, Bromley, Croydon, Sutton and Kingston, only Bromley and Kingston seem to still have life and vibrancy (having been to Bromley the other day I stand corrected that it’s dead or dying) and Kingston has basically become what Croydon wanted to be in the 90s/00s; a city in its own right. Add Woolwich & Lewisham and again Woolwich is in rapid decline with the area around Woolwich CrossRail station becoming a newer, posher, yuppified Woolwich and the old town centre losing more and more shops, Lewisham is being revitalised now, but was in neglect for a long time in the last decade or so. On the other hand, smaller high streets like Lordship Lane in East Dulwich, Rye Lane in Peckham and the Greenwich Cutty Sark area are all busy and bustling shopping areas that have recovered from covid, and attracting all the middle classes and those from further afield too. I’m hoping that Kidbrooke Village and a regenerated Thamesmead will also finally realise their potential and become little urban villages in their own right, ones that cater for all walks of life and not just the middle classes, Brixton has the good balance of this. The thing is Amazon, clothes sites like ASOS and Boohoo, and streaming platforms have taken such a chunk of shoppers away from high streets and town centres. Posh shopping centres like Westfield and Bluewater or Oxford Street and places like that are still busy because it’s more of a day out than just going to boring Bexleyheath or Croydon with all the empty shops. I think a lot a the decline is down to areas that alienated cars through exorbitant parking charges. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on May 15, 2022 16:57:48 GMT
The thing is Amazon, clothes sites like ASOS and Boohoo, and streaming platforms have taken such a chunk of shoppers away from high streets and town centres. Posh shopping centres like Westfield and Bluewater or Oxford Street and places like that are still busy because it’s more of a day out than just going to boring Bexleyheath or Croydon with all the empty shops. Personally think we could see a return to more in person shopping as people have to tighten budgets and go and hunt out bargains. There is also a downturn in streaming as people have to tighten budgets. Said something similar before but don’t think online shopping will carry on in its current form for ever. Online retailers are facing huge number of returns where people buy in bulk and only keep one or two things. I'm not too sure, if anything I believe it pushes even more people to online shopping. I've always found far better bargains online than in store, and at a time where people may not want to be blowing money on fares or petrol to go to the shop while Amazon delivers next day for a monthly cost lower than a single day cap. I can only see online shopping becoming stronger and stronger to be honest, I don't think online shopping's popularity has ever declined in history so I can't see that happening out of the blue when that's the quickest way to hunt out cheap prices quickly. |
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Post by ServerKing on May 15, 2022 17:02:05 GMT
Ever since the creation of the "free bus" on the 149 with the first bendy buses (very poor enforcement of fares with "surprises" of Revenue teams and police at key stops like Seven Sisters, Stoke Newington and Edmonton Green) the route has been used by some gangstas and Road Men coming up from the South to settle scores with the likes of NPK and Edmonton Mandem. Some have travelled up on the Overground from Liverpool Street (ticket gates not always in operation at Edmonton Green) so they like to catch the fare dodgers there too. Factor in rowdy schoolkids and things kicking off (police are always out in Wood Green stopping the coming together of at least 4 high schools in the area) Tottenham has always been associated with the notorious Broadwater Farm Estate, and the OFB (Original Farm Boys) are still around, though most of the wrong'uns have been moved to Cheshunt (Cheshunt is Haringey's Rwanda) and the estate is getting a minor refresh. Though I fear this is like the 318s refresh in 2019, meaning the majority of it is still knackered some tower blocks are being pulled down, new homes being built, and like Spurs under Antonio Conte, is getting slightly better Gentrification has drawn the sandal-wearing, free trade loving Chiswick types into Downhills Park and West Green, Little Russia (from the Enfield border down to White Hart Lane) is seeing a similar renaissance as property prices continue to escalate (I think this a way to push more riff-raff out through higher rents to the Shires and Essex), Spurs owner Daniel Levy wants to build a cinema for some reason and transform the area with a hub called the Filmworks, as we try to ape Ealing Broadway Harold Hill is a place that has really changed, like some parts of Dagenham, with new homes and a nicer feel to the place. Harlesden and Park Royal are still grotty, but seems to be under curfew with not much drama as back in the day. I still go out that way to work near Acton Lane. 224 bus drivers still don't know how to alight at bus stops and park with the back of the bus pointing out into traffic, a cheeky way to make cars give way for when they want to move off again. Always on the road from the Swaminarayan Temple down to the junction with Acton Lane I haven't been down to Norbury and Thornton Heath for years, and West Croydon as I used to back in the day... sometimes I go down to Gold Coast on Portland Road in South Norwood where there good Ghanaian restaurant I think that horrible 20 zone on Beulah Hill deters me... Broadwater Farm. That estate. I have to give my hats off to the W4 bus drivers. I haven't been in that estate since the early to mid 2000s Broadwater Farm is relatively quiet now, half of it is to be bulldozed, the only thefts the drivers experience is Tottenham hijacking a bus or two for use on the 318 |
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some tower blocks are being pulled down, new homes being built, and like Spurs under Antonio Conte, is getting slightly better 
I think that horrible 20 zone on Beulah Hill deters me... 
