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Post by twobellstogo on Dec 27, 2023 17:42:44 GMT
Controversial view: but I still think Banstead, Caterham & Warlingham ,Cheshunt, Chigwell, Epsom and Ewell, Esher, Spelthorne, Sunbury, Walton and Weybridge should be in greater London as originally envisaged.... Sunbury is in Spelthorne - but aside from that, good luck getting any of the Surrey parts into the GLA apart from Spelthorne unless it was forced upon them, which seems most unlikely. The people of Elmbridge, an area I know exceptionally well, are still proud Surrey residents. I don’t know Essex nearly as well as Surrey, but I think if anything those in Essex would be even less enamoured with the thought of joining Greater London.
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Post by SILENCED on Dec 27, 2023 19:23:04 GMT
You may be right and I’d love it if we were given the chance. Spelthorne has always been something of an anomaly – it’s historically part of Middlesex but was clearly not deemed urban enough to become a London Borough in 1965 so was attached to Surrey County Council for administrative purposes but until 2000 was policed by the Met. It’s the only part of the county north of the River Thames and is, with the exception of the Wraysbury Reservoir, all within the M25 (Poyle was annexed by Slough in 1995 as it was the only settlement outside the M25!) which is what most “lay” folk consider to be the London boundary. From a public transport perspective, many of its bus services form part of the TfL network although one is financially supported by the County Council yet oyster cards cannot be used on any of its trains (much to the confusion of many locals). Going back a few years, Staines was the only country area garage in Middlesex. I also believe that the Harrow in Charlton is the only surviving thatched pub in the former Middlesex area. To get from Stanwell Moor to anywhere else in the borough it’s necessary to enter Greater London. Indeed, there are only four (five if you count the M25 and A30 at Runnymede) crossing points to the rest of Surrey but around 15 to Greater London. From an ecclesiastical point of view we are part of the Diocese of London whilst the rest of Surrey falls under either Guildford or Southwark. Controversial view: but I still think Banstead, Caterham & Warlingham ,Cheshunt, Chigwell, Epsom and Ewell, Esher, Spelthorne, Sunbury, Walton and Weybridge should be in greater London as originally envisaged.... Why would they want to, there are outer London areas that don't want to be part of London. I can't see London ever getting bigger, only smaller.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 27, 2023 23:14:52 GMT
Controversial view: but I still think Banstead, Caterham & Warlingham ,Cheshunt, Chigwell, Epsom and Ewell, Esher, Spelthorne, Sunbury, Walton and Weybridge should be in greater London as originally envisaged.... Why would they want to, there are outer London areas that don't want to be part of London. I can't see London ever getting bigger, only smaller. The obvious benefits that led to Havering residents wishing to remain rather than join Essex. Up to them if they want to join or not but let’s not pretend that all of sudden, all of Outer London wants to break away
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Post by ThinLizzy on Dec 28, 2023 0:45:58 GMT
Why would they want to, there are outer London areas that don't want to be part of London. I can't see London ever getting bigger, only smaller. The obvious benefits that led to Havering residents wishing to remain rather than join Essex. Up to them if they want to join or not but let’s not pretend that all of sudden, all of Outer London wants to break away There is a small group of Conservatives within Havering, including our local, missing MP Andrew Rosindell who continue to lead local campaigns for a "HEXit" of Havering from the GLA into Essex, without realising all the benefits of being within Greater London would be lost.
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Post by borneobus on Dec 28, 2023 2:43:47 GMT
The obvious benefits that led to Havering residents wishing to remain rather than join Essex. Up to them if they want to join or not but let’s not pretend that all of sudden, all of Outer London wants to break away There is a small group of Conservatives within Havering, including our local, missing MP Andrew Rosindell who continue to lead local campaigns for a "HEXit" of Havering from the GLA into Essex, without realising all the benefits of being within Greater London would be lost. Wow, after Brexit comes Hexit! As this is a bus forum, I'll ask a bus related question. Post Hexit, will Havering's bus services be: a) Better b) The same c) Worse
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Post by ThinLizzy on Dec 28, 2023 2:47:25 GMT
There is a small group of Conservatives within Havering, including our local, missing MP Andrew Rosindell who continue to lead local campaigns for a "HEXit" of Havering from the GLA into Essex, without realising all the benefits of being within Greater London would be lost. Wow, after Brexit comes Hexit! As this is a bus forum, I'll ask a bus related question. Post Hexit, will Havering's bus services be: a) Better b) The same c) Worse To be fair, I can't see TfL willing to provide the levels of service it currently does to Havering if Hexit was to happen- there is a significant number of routes that do not leave the borough, and if Havering isn't part of Greater London, who will pay for the current levels of service?
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Post by borneobus on Dec 28, 2023 3:34:57 GMT
Wow, after Brexit comes Hexit! As this is a bus forum, I'll ask a bus related question. Post Hexit, will Havering's bus services be: a) Better b) The same c) Worse To be fair, I can't see TfL willing to provide the levels of service it currently does to Havering if Hexit was to happen- there is a significant number of routes that do not leave the borough, and if Havering isn't part of Greater London, who will pay for the current levels of service? Absolutely.
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Post by wirewiper on Dec 28, 2023 7:34:07 GMT
There is a small group of Conservatives within Havering, including our local, missing MP Andrew Rosindell who continue to lead local campaigns for a "HEXit" of Havering from the GLA into Essex, without realising all the benefits of being within Greater London would be lost. Wow, after Brexit comes Hexit! As this is a bus forum, I'll ask a bus related question. Post Hexit, will Havering's bus services be: a) Better b) The same c) Worse Maybe if Havering cedes from Greater London and becomes a Unitary Authority, they could set up their own municipally-owned bus operation! I'm sure the current government would be willing to throw it as much BSIP+ money as it could handle. Whether it would actually be any good or not is another matter - the fantasy is another Reading or Nottingham but the reality might be more Halton ...
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Post by mark on Dec 28, 2023 8:48:41 GMT
Wow, after Brexit comes Hexit! As this is a bus forum, I'll ask a bus related question. Post Hexit, will Havering's bus services be: a) Better b) The same c) Worse Maybe if Havering cedes from Greater London and becomes a Unitary Authority, they could set up their own municipally-owned bus operation! I'm sure the current government would be willing to throw it as much BSIP+ money as it could handle. Whether it would actually be any good or not is another matter - the fantasy is another Reading or Nottingham but the reality might be more Halton ... Perhaps we should do to London what happened to Poland after the Second World War and move its borders to the west. Havering and Bromley can return to Essex and Kent respectively and London can pick up Slough and Spelthorne!
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Post by mark on Dec 28, 2023 8:56:14 GMT
You mention Poyle - I remember taking photos of the bridge that crosses the River Colne between Poyle and Colnbrook, which was also the Adminstrative County Boundary between Middlesex and Buckinghamshire at this point until 1965. Subsequent boundary changes put Poyle in Surrey from 1st April 1965, and put Colnbrook in Berkshire (along with Slough) on 1st April 1974. Surrey County Council was the lead authority for strengthening work on the bridge in 1993 and this is also recorded on a plaque. The bridge also carries a Coal Tax Post, as a reminder that any coal imported into the City of London was liable for duty. This tax had existed since the Middle Ages but was abolished in 1891. As you mention, Poyle was incorporated into the Borough of Slough in 1995 and the village was finally united with its neighbour under a single ecclesiatical parish. At this time Berkshire was still an Administrative County and gained a coterminous boundary with Greater London for the first time. Some other tidying-up of the London/Surrey boundary around the Heathrow Airport perimeter occurred at the same time. Berkshire ceased to be an administrative county in April 1998, all its local councils becoming Unitary Authorities. The sole remaining County-wide department, the Berkshire Records Office, is located in Reading and is administered by Reading Borough Council on behalf of all the Berkshire Authorities. There is a coal tax post near the railway bridge in Laleham Road, Staines too. As far as Berkshire-wide bodies go, don't forget the Royal Berkshire Fire Authority which is made up of representatives from the six unitary councils, and oversees the fire and rescue service.
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Post by borneobus on Dec 28, 2023 9:38:06 GMT
Maybe if Havering cedes from Greater London and becomes a Unitary Authority, they could set up their own municipally-owned bus operation! I'm sure the current government would be willing to throw it as much BSIP+ money as it could handle. Whether it would actually be any good or not is another matter - the fantasy is another Reading or Nottingham but the reality might be more Halton ... Perhaps we should do to London what happened to Poland after the Second World War and move its borders to the west. Havering and Bromley can return to Essex and Kent respectively and London can pick up Slough and Spelthorne! If Bromley 'returns' to Kent you can bet your last fiver that Bexley would say "Me too".
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Post by mkay315 on Dec 28, 2023 9:54:53 GMT
The obvious benefits that led to Havering residents wishing to remain rather than join Essex. Up to them if they want to join or not but let’s not pretend that all of sudden, all of Outer London wants to break away There is a small group of Conservatives within Havering, including our local, missing MP Andrew Rosindell who continue to lead local campaigns for a "HEXit" of Havering from the GLA into Essex, without realising all the benefits of being within Greater London would be lost. If Havering wants to leave GLA then let them but they can't have their cake and eat it and expect same levels of service should they leave. I mean you only have to look at what happened in 2017 with Epping Forest when the 167 was trimmed back to Loughton leaving the 20 and 397 to pick up the slack to Debden.
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Post by mark on Dec 28, 2023 10:46:45 GMT
There is a small group of Conservatives within Havering, including our local, missing MP Andrew Rosindell who continue to lead local campaigns for a "HEXit" of Havering from the GLA into Essex, without realising all the benefits of being within Greater London would be lost. If Havering wants to leave GLA then let them but they can't have their cake and eat it and expect same levels of service should they leave. I mean you only have to look at what happened in 2017 with Epping Forest when the 167 was trimmed back to Loughton leaving the 20 and 397 to pick up the slack to Debden. Absolutely and the residents of all these fringe boroughs would very quickly realise that - perhaps the similarities with Brexit are a warning here! Just wait for the howls of anguish from the locals when they realise that they no longer qualify for a 60+ Oyster card and their bus services have been slashed. Would Kent CC support a bus every 30 minutes (and an hourly Sunday service) to Chelsfield? An approximate comparison can be made with Charlton (the west Middlesex village that is now administered by Surrey not the similarly named settlement in SE London) which has four buses a day, the first and last of which is a schoolday only service, with nothing on Saturday or Sunday.
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Post by busoccultation on Dec 28, 2023 11:48:47 GMT
There is a small group of Conservatives within Havering, including our local, missing MP Andrew Rosindell who continue to lead local campaigns for a "HEXit" of Havering from the GLA into Essex, without realising all the benefits of being within Greater London would be lost. If Havering wants to leave GLA then let them but they can't have their cake and eat it and expect same levels of service should they leave. I mean you only have to look at what happened in 2017 with Epping Forest when the 167 was trimmed back to Loughton leaving the 20 and 397 to pick up the slack to Debden. Just going into Brentwood there is a huge contrast to the service offered on the 498 and everything else that isn't a TfL which is mostly hourly at a minimum during the day and no buses run there after 8pm except the 498 where the last bus arrives into Brentwood after midnight.
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Post by mkay315 on Dec 28, 2023 13:16:50 GMT
If Havering wants to leave GLA then let them but they can't have their cake and eat it and expect same levels of service should they leave. I mean you only have to look at what happened in 2017 with Epping Forest when the 167 was trimmed back to Loughton leaving the 20 and 397 to pick up the slack to Debden. Just going into Brentwood there is a huge contrast to the service offered on the 498 and everything else that isn't a TfL which is mostly hourly at a minimum during the day and no buses run there after 8pm except the 498 where the last bus arrives into Brentwood after midnight. Look at that and yet these people think by breaking away they'll get a great service. I'll laugh at them if they break away only for years later to pass and they beg to come back. There was one scene in Avengers Endgame where Thanos said you could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you, back to me 😂😂
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