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Post by southlondonbus on Aug 5, 2023 18:41:56 GMT
I think the 11/26 change also works as I don't think many links were actually broken in the first place. A lot of 11 journeys solely happened between Liverpool Street and Victoria so after this change all that's happened is people need to take a 26 instead of the 11, people in most cases won't actually need to change buses. It was really just the Chelsea users who lost their link, turned out that they are probably now worse off than if the 11/311 changes ever took place which they campaigned against heavily. The 26 also then had the added benefit of restoring the lost lost link out towards East London that Victoria lost all those years ago with the 8. I think the 205 change was probably the most bizarre one, but was probably also just concocted to solely annoy people. Random parts of that change such as the cut to Mile End just pretty much served no purpose besides to annoy people by missing the busy stops at Mile End Station and Bow Church. If there's any change that I'm glad didn't take place, it was the 205s change. In the grand scheme, the changes that have taken place I'd say have certainly been a success. The 11 being removed has quite frankly just affected a noisy minority who have umpteen other routes to select from heading in towards Central London anyway. The 3 as mentioned has found a new place as a 507 replacement. The 6, 332 and 16 changes in the grand scheme haven't impacted travel patterns as much as initially seemed. The 6 is certainly carrying healthy loads and I don't think the loss of the old 16 route has caused mass panic anywhere. The 26 has been a massive runaway success as multiple people have mentioned on here now. The only change I'd question, but not berate is the 133 change. The route seems to have been a shoehorn to solve a non-existent problem. I'm not one for shouting over-bussing much. However that's exactly what's happened to that corridor now. Out of the two RA routes, the 507 always had its place as being a local linker in the Victoria area too. The 521 never really recovered, solely being there for office users. Ever since the Pandemic while it's gained usage, it's never reached its heyday. The biggest flow was for sure Waterloo to Holborn where the 59 has now slotted in nicely, but you also do have the 1, 243 etc that have helped absorb it. London Bridge was never as busy compared to the Waterloo end and I do think that the 8 and 25 have enough capacity to deal with the section to Holborn from north of London Bridge. The old 133 route was probably more popular and was the more useful one to South Londoners. I actually think what they have now is better than the changes associated with the introduction of the 311. The 19 for one still runs down to Sloane Square along King's Road to Battersea Bridge. And mostly, I don't think the shortened 11 running solely from Liverpool Street to Victoria would've lasted particularly long. Whenever I took the 11, it was only really busy between Aldwych and Victoria, hardly enough to justify the existence of the full route. The 26/11 merger would likely have gone ahead either way with the 26 renumbered 11 or something like that.
I did quite like thou the idea of the Victoria to Oxford Circus section of the 311 for linking Berkley Sqaure to Victoria again but running via Victoria would have made it a bit indirect between the Kings Road and Oxford Circus running via Victoria. I totally agree it would have been a bit inefficient running the 11 just from Victoria to Liverpool Street and undoubtedly it would have merged with the 26 in time like it has now.
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Post by northlondon83 on Aug 5, 2023 18:51:24 GMT
I actually think what they have now is better than the changes associated with the introduction of the 311. The 19 for one still runs down to Sloane Square along King's Road to Battersea Bridge. And mostly, I don't think the shortened 11 running solely from Liverpool Street to Victoria would've lasted particularly long. Whenever I took the 11, it was only really busy between Aldwych and Victoria, hardly enough to justify the existence of the full route. The 26/11 merger would likely have gone ahead either way with the 26 renumbered 11 or something like that.
I did quite like thou the idea of the Victoria to Oxford Circus section of the 311 for linking Berkley Sqaure to Victoria again but running via Victoria would have made it a bit indirect between the Kings Road and Oxford Circus running via Victoria. I totally agree it would have been a bit inefficient running the 11 just from Victoria to Liverpool Street and undoubtedly it would have merged with the 26 in time like it has now. Also having the 11/311 as it was proposed would leave a very small overlap between the two routes. I do wonder whether it would have been a good idea to implement the 311 route but renumber it as the 11 (ie send the 11 to Oxford Circus instead of Waterloo), though I'd have it run to Trafalgar Square via the 11 then to Oxford Circus, which leaves a bigger overlap with the 26. The 211 I'd actually leave it as it is and send something else to Battersea
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Post by matthieu1221 on Aug 6, 2023 3:31:18 GMT
I actually think what they have now is better than the changes associated with the introduction of the 311. The 19 for one still runs down to Sloane Square along King's Road to Battersea Bridge. And mostly, I don't think the shortened 11 running solely from Liverpool Street to Victoria would've lasted particularly long. Whenever I took the 11, it was only really busy between Aldwych and Victoria, hardly enough to justify the existence of the full route. The 26/11 merger would likely have gone ahead either way with the 26 renumbered 11 or something like that.
I did quite like thou the idea of the Victoria to Oxford Circus section of the 311 for linking Berkley Sqaure to Victoria again but running via Victoria would have made it a bit indirect between the Kings Road and Oxford Circus running via Victoria. I totally agree it would have been a bit inefficient running the 11 just from Victoria to Liverpool Street and undoubtedly it would have merged with the 26 in time like it has now. Aside from the indirect routing via Victoria, I dislike the fact that it runs via Berkeley Square before terminating just north at Oxford Circus (I have the same issue currently with the 22). Anything that isn't a through route via Berkeley Square which continues further than Oxford Circus will be relatively empty through it as in terms of passengers with Berkeley Square pretty much being alighting only northbound and boarding only southbound (not that the stops are particularly busy anyway). I do also think the routing via Dawes Street or New Bond Street then Oxford Street in lieu of Conduit Road should return but that's another story.
Maybe the 14 could be rerouted via Berkeley Square then Oxford Street which would give it another purpose simply paralleling the Pic but at bus speeds. The 19 and 38 give ample capacity between Picc and TCR anyway via Shaftesbury Avenue. The brief section of Oxford Street and Regent Street would also likely give better demand southbound to Knightsbridge (also somewhat of a return of a Oxford Street to Harrods link!) and the return of an east-west route to the British Museum which would have better demand than the current one which carries air as previously discussed on this forum. 22 could return to Picc Circus, or TCR via Shaftesbury Avenue if TfL are feeling generous.
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Post by southlondonbus on Aug 6, 2023 10:02:56 GMT
I did quite like thou the idea of the Victoria to Oxford Circus section of the 311 for linking Berkley Sqaure to Victoria again but running via Victoria would have made it a bit indirect between the Kings Road and Oxford Circus running via Victoria. I totally agree it would have been a bit inefficient running the 11 just from Victoria to Liverpool Street and undoubtedly it would have merged with the 26 in time like it has now. Aside from the indirect routing via Victoria, I dislike the fact that it runs via Berkeley Square before terminating just north at Oxford Circus (I have the same issue currently with the 22). Anything that isn't a through route via Berkeley Square which continues further than Oxford Circus will be relatively empty through it as in terms of passengers with Berkeley Square pretty much being alighting only northbound and boarding only southbound (not that the stops are particularly busy anyway). I do also think the routing via Dawes Street or New Bond Street then Oxford Street in lieu of Conduit Road should return but that's another story. Maybe the 14 could be rerouted via Berkeley Square then Oxford Street which would give it another purpose simply paralleling the Pic but at bus speeds. The 19 and 38 give ample capacity between Picc and TCR anyway via Shaftesbury Avenue. The brief section of Oxford Street and Regent Street would also likely give better demand southbound to Knightsbridge (also somewhat of a return of a Oxford Street to Harrods link!) and the return of an east-west route to the British Museum which would have better demand than the current one which carries air as previously discussed on this forum. 22 could return to Picc Circus, or TCR via Shaftesbury Avenue if TfL are feeling generous.
I can't remember now if the 8 did that routing up until 2009 or whether it was diverted via Regent Street and Conduit Street before it was withdrawn between Oxo and Victoria.
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Post by southlondon413 on Aug 6, 2023 10:31:10 GMT
Aside from the indirect routing via Victoria, I dislike the fact that it runs via Berkeley Square before terminating just north at Oxford Circus (I have the same issue currently with the 22). Anything that isn't a through route via Berkeley Square which continues further than Oxford Circus will be relatively empty through it as in terms of passengers with Berkeley Square pretty much being alighting only northbound and boarding only southbound (not that the stops are particularly busy anyway). I do also think the routing via Dawes Street or New Bond Street then Oxford Street in lieu of Conduit Road should return but that's another story. Maybe the 14 could be rerouted via Berkeley Square then Oxford Street which would give it another purpose simply paralleling the Pic but at bus speeds. The 19 and 38 give ample capacity between Picc and TCR anyway via Shaftesbury Avenue. The brief section of Oxford Street and Regent Street would also likely give better demand southbound to Knightsbridge (also somewhat of a return of a Oxford Street to Harrods link!) and the return of an east-west route to the British Museum which would have better demand than the current one which carries air as previously discussed on this forum. 22 could return to Picc Circus, or TCR via Shaftesbury Avenue if TfL are feeling generous.
I can't remember now if the 8 did that routing up until 2009 or whether it was diverted via Regent Street and Conduit Street before it was withdrawn between Oxo and Victoria. I believe the 8 followed the same route as the C2, which replace it, and now the 22.
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Post by danorak on Aug 6, 2023 11:38:36 GMT
I'm so pleased that the Victoria extension has breathed in a new lease of life for route 3. It's great to see this route coming back to prominence in its Central end after years in the wilderness. I also wonder when is route 211 going to be rerouted to Battersea Power Station? Same could be said for the 26. I think its gained a nice new role in central London taking on the Aldwych to Victoria section of the 11. Certainly I would these changes have possibly shown that people do get used to new routes such as the 3 providing the Victoria to Horseferry Road link and the 133 LB to Holborn link quite well. Is it too much beyond imagination to think people would have got used to the 205 (with the 27 still linking Warren St to Paddington and the 30 Angel to Baker Street) and 214 merging to become Mile End to PH Fields and dare i even say it the Hampstead Heath to Westminster route becoming the 88? The 3 covering Victoria-Lambeth Bridge was OK for covering journeys on the 507 between Victoria and Horseferry Road offices, and there are currently still two routes running Waterloo to Victoria albeit via Westminster. Passengers in Westminster and Whitehall still have the 159 (which from my observations in the area is very busy, often to the case of being full). The awkwardness is with the bit of the 507 that's been replaced by the C10.
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Post by southlondonbus on Aug 6, 2023 15:46:23 GMT
Same could be said for the 26. I think its gained a nice new role in central London taking on the Aldwych to Victoria section of the 11. Certainly I would these changes have possibly shown that people do get used to new routes such as the 3 providing the Victoria to Horseferry Road link and the 133 LB to Holborn link quite well. Is it too much beyond imagination to think people would have got used to the 205 (with the 27 still linking Warren St to Paddington and the 30 Angel to Baker Street) and 214 merging to become Mile End to PH Fields and dare i even say it the Hampstead Heath to Westminster route becoming the 88? The 3 covering Victoria-Lambeth Bridge was OK for covering journeys on the 507 between Victoria and Horseferry Road offices, and there are currently still two routes running Waterloo to Victoria albeit via Westminster. Passengers in Westminster and Whitehall still have the 159 (which from my observations in the area is very busy, often to the case of being full). The awkwardness is with the bit of the 507 that's been replaced by the C10. I think the 77 would have picked up more of the slack had it stopped outside of Waterloo like the 11 does.
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Post by matthieu1221 on Aug 7, 2023 2:51:59 GMT
I can't remember now if the 8 did that routing up until 2009 or whether it was diverted via Regent Street and Conduit Street before it was withdrawn between Oxo and Victoria. I believe the 8 followed the same route as the C2, which replace it, and now the 22. The 8 went via Dawes Street or New Bond Street then via Oxford Circus. Not sure if the C2 went via Conduit Street because of traffic calming changes to at least New Bond Street or because running a north south route via Conduit Street and Regent Street was a better routing than heading east west along Oxford Street for a short stretch before heading north. Maybe someone has the consultation documents for the 8/C2 changes of the time? I would be very interested in seeing the rationale for the changes to be honest.
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Post by matthieu1221 on Aug 7, 2023 2:55:11 GMT
Same could be said for the 26. I think its gained a nice new role in central London taking on the Aldwych to Victoria section of the 11. Certainly I would these changes have possibly shown that people do get used to new routes such as the 3 providing the Victoria to Horseferry Road link and the 133 LB to Holborn link quite well. Is it too much beyond imagination to think people would have got used to the 205 (with the 27 still linking Warren St to Paddington and the 30 Angel to Baker Street) and 214 merging to become Mile End to PH Fields and dare i even say it the Hampstead Heath to Westminster route becoming the 88? The 3 covering Victoria-Lambeth Bridge was OK for covering journeys on the 507 between Victoria and Horseferry Road offices, and there are currently still two routes running Waterloo to Victoria albeit via Westminster. Passengers in Westminster and Whitehall still have the 159 (which from my observations in the area is very busy, often to the case of being full). The awkwardness is with the bit of the 507 that's been replaced by the C10. The C10 can get quite busy in the Horseferry Road area now during peaks despite the high frequency (though the route is pretty unreliable at its current length with frequent bunching and gaps). I wonder if longer SDs (12 metre would be great) are possible?
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Post by ADH45258 on Aug 7, 2023 6:13:16 GMT
The 3 covering Victoria-Lambeth Bridge was OK for covering journeys on the 507 between Victoria and Horseferry Road offices, and there are currently still two routes running Waterloo to Victoria albeit via Westminster. Passengers in Westminster and Whitehall still have the 159 (which from my observations in the area is very busy, often to the case of being full). The awkwardness is with the bit of the 507 that's been replaced by the C10. The C10 can get quite busy in the Horseferry Road area now during peaks despite the high frequency (though the route is pretty unreliable at its current length with frequent bunching and gaps). I wonder if longer SDs (12 metre would be great) are possible? The C10 can get busy further east too. I think the best solution would be DDs, with a minor reroute in the Bermondsey area (via the 188), avoiding the low bridge on Abbey Street.
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Post by greenboy on Aug 7, 2023 6:31:41 GMT
The C10 can get quite busy in the Horseferry Road area now during peaks despite the high frequency (though the route is pretty unreliable at its current length with frequent bunching and gaps). I wonder if longer SDs (12 metre would be great) are possible? The C10 can get busy further east too. I think the best solution would be DDs, with a minor reroute in the Bermondsey area (via the 188), avoiding the low bridge on Abbey Street. Abbey Street bridge is not the problem, trees in Sutherland Street near Victoria and apparently there are other residential problems in Rotherhithe.
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Post by southlondonbus on Aug 7, 2023 6:55:03 GMT
The C10 can get busy further east too. I think the best solution would be DDs, with a minor reroute in the Bermondsey area (via the 188), avoiding the low bridge on Abbey Street. Abbey Street bridge is not the problem, trees in Sutherland Street near Victoria and apparently there are other residential problems in Rotherhithe. So really it is a route which is restricted to SDs then. Maybe one solution would be 4 extra journeys in the peaks from just Waterloo to Victoria using 2 buses.
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Post by enviroPB on Aug 7, 2023 8:16:04 GMT
I believe the 8 followed the same route as the C2, which replace it, and now the 22. The 8 went via Dawes Street or New Bond Street then via Oxford Circus. Not sure if the C2 went via Conduit Street because of traffic calming changes to at least New Bond Street or because running a north south route via Conduit Street and Regent Street was a better routing than heading east west along Oxford Street for a short stretch before heading north. Maybe someone has the consultation documents for the 8/C2 changes of the time? I would be very interested in seeing the rationale for the changes to be honest. New Bond Street was closed for a good decade due to Crossrail works. TfL decided not to temporarily withdraw the 8 between Victoria and Oxford Circus, nor put it on a long term diversion via Oxford Street and Park Lane (basically duplicating the 73 at the time). I don´t believe there were consultations for the Mayfair changes, there definitely wasn´t one for the 8/N8 truncation.
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Post by southlondonbus on Aug 7, 2023 8:37:31 GMT
The 8 went via Dawes Street or New Bond Street then via Oxford Circus. Not sure if the C2 went via Conduit Street because of traffic calming changes to at least New Bond Street or because running a north south route via Conduit Street and Regent Street was a better routing than heading east west along Oxford Street for a short stretch before heading north. Maybe someone has the consultation documents for the 8/C2 changes of the time? I would be very interested in seeing the rationale for the changes to be honest. New Bond Street was closed for a good decade due to Crossrail works. TfL decided not to temporarily withdraw the 8 between Victoria and Oxford Circus, nor put it on a long term diversion via Oxford Street and Park Lane (basically duplicating the 73 at the time). I don´t believe there were consultations for the Mayfair changes, there definitely wasn´t one for the 8/N8 truncation. Yes I don't remember an 8/C2 consultation. I wonder why they wouldnt divert the 8 via Regent Street and Conduit Street as opposed to Oxford Street and Park Lane?
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Post by enviroPB on Aug 7, 2023 9:32:22 GMT
New Bond Street was closed for a good decade due to Crossrail works. TfL decided not to temporarily withdraw the 8 between Victoria and Oxford Circus, nor put it on a long term diversion via Oxford Street and Park Lane (basically duplicating the 73 at the time). I don´t believe there were consultations for the Mayfair changes, there definitely wasn´t one for the 8/N8 truncation. Yes I don't remember an 8/C2 consultation. I wonder why they wouldnt divert the 8 via Regent Street and Conduit Street as opposed to Oxford Street and Park Lane? Southbound is the easy bit, northbound would have been tricky. If the 8 were to go via Conduit Street and Regent Street, it'd have to negotiate Hanover Square, Holles Street and then the 55/73 LoR to access New Oxford Street. That's probably why TfL took the decision to cut the 8 to Oxford Circus.
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