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Post by redbus on Jun 13, 2022 19:42:49 GMT
Fuel prices are unlikely to return to anywhere near where they were anytime soon if ever? I think bus fares even with a 10% increase will be a a much more viable alternative to driving. Our fares bus fares offer excellent value compared to other places.
Fuel prices will go down, they always have in the past whenever they've gone high. As you say 'ever' is a very long time, and in time (I reckon a long time) they will go down. For the foreseeable future fuel prices will stay high because of the war in Ukraine, the pound going down against the dollar and the worldwide demand for oil as economies pick up following Covid. In the longer term as the world moves away from fossil fuel to renewable energy, demand for oil will go down as will prices. If the world goes into recession that too could cause a reduction in demand for oil and reduce prices.
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Post by SILENCED on Jun 13, 2022 20:10:19 GMT
The Mayor is always playing politics and as usual neither the Mayor nor Government come out with credit. Ultimately the bus service doesn't run on fresh air, it needs funding and that can only come from Government subsidy or fares as TfL sadly don't have a magic money pot. Bus drivers deserve and need a pay rise and diesel costs are becoming ever higher, so the it is inevitable the bus service will cost more to run, and the alternative is further cuts. I would like to see a longer term government subsidy but sadly that isn't going to happen with the current Government and Mayor. This is only the firing of the starting gun on next year's fares rise, hopefully the actual fare increase will be somewhat more reasonable both for TfL as a whole and the railways. I would also prioritise lower fare rises for the buses and higher fare rises for the tube. This is because those who are less well off and are suffering the most in this cost of living squeeze deserve the most help and they tend to use buses more. The fare increase is set in stone, the July RPI figure + 1%
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Post by ServerKing on Jun 13, 2022 20:24:50 GMT
If it's to help pay for new buses on the 318, then I welcome the increases It seems Khan is keen to destroy what's left of TfL, this will surely drive the last of the passengers into Ubers or just quit London altogether. I could see more on the Tube or Elizabeth Line but the buses will suffer. Utter madness
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Post by southlondon413 on Jun 13, 2022 20:38:28 GMT
If it's to help pay for new buses on the 318, then I welcome the increases It seems Khan is keen to destroy what's left of TfL, this will surely drive the last of the passengers into Ubers or just quit London altogether. I could see more on the Tube or Elizabeth Line but the buses will suffer. Utter madness If the tube is still an option. Kahn is not in opposition to the strikes, which is why he hasn’t done anything, and is instead using them for political gain. He was quoted just last week as saying “Actually, the RMT and I are on the same side here in lobbying the government for more support. The people who are punished here are Londoners.".
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Post by WH241 on Jun 13, 2022 21:08:40 GMT
Fuel prices are unlikely to return to anywhere near where they were anytime soon if ever? I think bus fares even with a 10% increase will be a a much more viable alternative to driving. Our fares bus fares offer excellent value compared to other places.
Fuel prices will go down, they always have in the past whenever they've gone high. Yes they will go down but not to a level they were at, I imagine the £1.60 mark at the lowest. The issue is people just don’t have spare cash especially with the upcoming gas and electric increases. I know the bus forum rather ironically is anti bus on occasions but think the current situation will push more towards the bus.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jun 13, 2022 21:51:43 GMT
One way to keep people in their cars despite the ridiculous fuel prices, make sure the buses go up to match. Fuel prices are unlikely to return to anywhere near where they were anytime soon if ever? I think bus fares even with a 10% increase will be a a much more viable alternative to driving. Our fares bus fares offer excellent value compared to other places.
Problem is, I can see it going more than 10%, simply because many of them run on diesel. As diesel we get in this country is higher than petrol, it is the opposite in many countries around the world due to diesel not being used as much for passenger cars. Most of the diesel prices that have been hedged in advance by bus companies would not have taken the war in Ukraine into perspective so future prices would include this and it would likely hit companies hard, especially around the rest of the country where there is not as much funding.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jun 13, 2022 21:54:07 GMT
Well this he has himself to blame. All the fare freeze for 4Y (or was it 5Y?) is coming home to roost You raise fares by 2% every year, you get a 10% rise in 5 years. You appear all communistic and don’t raise anything for 5Y, you raise it by 10% in one go and conveniently blame the other parties I for one have no sympathy for him. Knife crime up, acid attacks up, investment into transport down. Lousy job as a mayor And I also blame the public for re-electing this man in the first place Well that I can be sure I did not do; although I ashamedly did elect him on his first term.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jun 13, 2022 22:07:55 GMT
Fuel prices will go down, they always have in the past whenever they've gone high. Yes they will go down but not to a level they were at, I imagine the £1.60 mark at the lowest. The issue is people just don’t have spare cash especially with the upcoming gas and electric increases. I know the bus forum rather ironically is anti bus on occasions but think the current situation will push more towards the bus. It would push more people out of London, or to leave the country. A lot of people are doing the maths and when there are other countries they can make near the same money and pay less tax with similar comforts they jump ship. A lot of people would also cut back travelling for leisure etc. so those trips on buses and trains in the evenings or Friday/Saturday nights would take a hit.
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Post by ServerKing on Jun 14, 2022 5:00:17 GMT
Yes they will go down but not to a level they were at, I imagine the £1.60 mark at the lowest. The issue is people just don’t have spare cash especially with the upcoming gas and electric increases. I know the bus forum rather ironically is anti bus on occasions but think the current situation will push more towards the bus. It would push more people out of London, or to leave the country. A lot of people are doing the maths and when there are other countries they can make near the same money and pay less tax with similar comforts they jump ship. A lot of people would also cut back travelling for leisure etc. so those trips on buses and trains in the evenings or Friday/Saturday nights would take a hit. The Mrs and I were talking about this, why are we struggling on a joint income approaching £70k, we could make a sh*toad back in Ghana where education is better, quality of life is good, there's general respect, and more traditional political corruption than what these public schoolboys are doing in the UK... Only in the UK can you be offered Child Tax Credits, then 3 years down the line be told to pay twice as much back as you no longer qualify as the tax office have "recalculated"... every local supermarket is on the take with inflated prices for obscure brands... and the premium brands are making everything smaller or worse quality... As for buses, sadly the last time I really enjoyed bus travel was around 2015 with decent speeds, optimism with DW411 was at an all time high, original DWs on the 349, so aimless trips were a joy. Now, it's 20 zones, limited road space due to cycle lanes, mask wearing for the past 2 years (had all the jabs, took precautions, wore masks and still got Covid)... We don't want to be anti bus, but I do identify as TFLQ (TfL Questioning) as I think Khan (riding about in new Range Rovers) and Boris (clinging to power like Putin) are as bad as each other. Where has all the money gone if they've not only hiked fares, but increased the congestion charge price and ULEZ before a possible extension to the whole of London?
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Post by ronnie on Jun 14, 2022 7:32:21 GMT
It would push more people out of London, or to leave the country. A lot of people are doing the maths and when there are other countries they can make near the same money and pay less tax with similar comforts they jump ship. A lot of people would also cut back travelling for leisure etc. so those trips on buses and trains in the evenings or Friday/Saturday nights would take a hit. The Mrs and I were talking about this, why are we struggling on a joint income approaching £70k, we could make a sh*toad back in Ghana where education is better, quality of life is good, there's general respect, and more traditional political corruption than what these public schoolboys are doing in the UK... Only in the UK can you be offered Child Tax Credits, then 3 years down the line be told to pay twice as much back as you no longer qualify as the tax office have "recalculated"... every local supermarket is on the take with inflated prices for obscure brands... and the premium brands are making everything smaller or worse quality... As for buses, sadly the last time I really enjoyed bus travel was around 2015 with decent speeds, optimism with DW411 was at an all time high, original DWs on the 349, so aimless trips were a joy. Now, it's 20 zones, limited road space due to cycle lanes, mask wearing for the past 2 years (had all the jabs, took precautions, wore masks and still got Covid)... We don't want to be anti bus, but I do identify as TFLQ (TfL Questioning) as I think Khan (riding about in new Range Rovers) and Boris (clinging to power like Putin) are as bad as each other. Where has all the money gone if they've not only hiked fares, but increased the congestion charge price and ULEZ before a possible extension to the whole of London? Agree, I never thought of this but now having serious conversations in the family whether moving back to India / relocating to Singapore / Canada make more sense. One can imagine paying high taxes and then getting at least an average level of service. Right now it’s very high cost of living, high taxes and questionable services (I am quite fed up by now with waiting at A&E / GPs not being available at all etc etc). In a lot of other countries the cost of living is substantially lower and with lower taxes so makes sense.
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Post by WH241 on Jun 14, 2022 7:51:56 GMT
Yes they will go down but not to a level they were at, I imagine the £1.60 mark at the lowest. The issue is people just don’t have spare cash especially with the upcoming gas and electric increases. I know the bus forum rather ironically is anti bus on occasions but think the current situation will push more towards the bus. It would push more people out of London, or to leave the country. A lot of people are doing the maths and when there are other countries they can make near the same money and pay less tax with similar comforts they jump ship. A lot of people would also cut back travelling for leisure etc. so those trips on buses and trains in the evenings or Friday/Saturday nights would take a hit. Doubt a increase in bus fares would push people out of London when fares are higher and wages are lower and there are less jobs. The country is in a mess and just can’t see any end to it all until we have a general election but then we don’t know who we will get!
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Post by southlondon413 on Jun 14, 2022 8:08:38 GMT
It would push more people out of London, or to leave the country. A lot of people are doing the maths and when there are other countries they can make near the same money and pay less tax with similar comforts they jump ship. A lot of people would also cut back travelling for leisure etc. so those trips on buses and trains in the evenings or Friday/Saturday nights would take a hit. Doubt a increase in bus fares would push people out of London when fares are higher and wages are lower and there are less jobs. The country is in a mess and just can’t see any end to it all until we have a general election but then we don’t know who we will get! If we did have an election there is, in all seriousness, a strong likelihood that we would end up with a hung parliament. Labour would likely side with the SNP and Lib Dems which would result in another Scottish independence referendum as wee Jimmy Krankie will insist upon it and us rejoins the EU but without veto powers, the Euro as a currency and a mandate to take hundreds of thousands of immigrants annually. That leaves us in an entirely worse mess as the last hung government achieved very little. A hung parliament would be good short term, as it would be seen as a positive change, but long term would be disastrous for the country. I would have the devil I know rather than the years of stagnation in the country. Think Stormont but on much larger scale.
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Post by joefrombow on Jun 14, 2022 16:48:13 GMT
It would push more people out of London, or to leave the country. A lot of people are doing the maths and when there are other countries they can make near the same money and pay less tax with similar comforts they jump ship. A lot of people would also cut back travelling for leisure etc. so those trips on buses and trains in the evenings or Friday/Saturday nights would take a hit. Doubt a increase in bus fares would push people out of London when fares are higher and wages are lower and there are less jobs. The country is in a mess and just can’t see any end to it all until we have a general election but then we don’t know who we will get! Depends where you go plenty of "OK" Cities and towns up north i.e Manchester with Metrolink and very decent house prices or Leeds or Sheffield which also have reasonable transport where you could have a very similar "London Lifestyle" in some jobs and earn a not too far off wage . The problem with tfl is they seem to spaff money up the wall with a lot of things and just blame the government , this debt/loosing money has been a problem since Khan refused to put fares up with his fares freeze but yet they seem to have money for stupid hair brained schemes like the Euston Rd Cycle scheme which they are now going back on this is all money wasted . haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/11846/widgets/34821/documents/17439 It's a complete shambles , the ULEZ is going to extend again next year plus there is talk of road charging per mile , this plus a cut back bus network plus the incoming recession we are all about too see , it's looking a lot more attractive to move elsewhere , I've always had a "Labour" view on politics but what Khan has done and is going to do is beyond a joke , I can honestly see why people have absolutely no faith .
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Post by ServerKing on Jun 14, 2022 19:34:47 GMT
Doubt a increase in bus fares would push people out of London when fares are higher and wages are lower and there are less jobs. The country is in a mess and just can’t see any end to it all until we have a general election but then we don’t know who we will get! Depends where you go plenty of "OK" Cities and towns up north i.e Manchester with Metrolink and very decent house prices or Leeds or Sheffield which also have reasonable transport where you could have a very similar "London Lifestyle" in some jobs and earn a not too far off wage . The problem with tfl is they seem to spaff money up the wall with a lot of things and just blame the government , this debt/loosing money has been a problem since Khan refused to put fares up with his fares freeze but yet they seem to have money for stupid hair brained schemes like the Euston Rd Cycle scheme which they are now going back on this is all money wasted . haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/11846/widgets/34821/documents/17439 It's a complete shambles , the ULEZ is going to extend again next year plus there is talk of road charging per mile , this plus a cut back bus network plus the incoming recession we are all about too see , it's looking a lot more attractive to move elsewhere , I've always had a "Labour" view on politics but what Khan has done and is going to do is beyond a joke , I can honestly see why people have absolutely no faith . Problem is, all these "OK cities" outside London, like Birmingham, Manchester and Liverpool look to London as the model and want to emulate Congestion Charge and other devices to extract money from its citizens, even the idea of one livery like London is considered be some. There is the fact like TfL, like it's predecessor, has always been old... like the BBC, they try to act cool and dynamic (ie BBC Sounds, 1Xtra, BBC Three etc) as they try to guess what people want or are interested in. TfL may do the same with all this woke stuff no one asked for (and spend 1000's on it too), safer speeds are one thing, but I've been on a stretch of road from Isleworth to Norwood Green which was an NSL road with no accidents, cut down to 20. Let that soak in. 60, to 20. May be good to run a hybrid in EV mode at 20 before the engine kicks in (therefore no pollution), but not good if late for work, School etc... As for Labour, Kier Starmer has all the charisma of a filing cabinet, Corbyn was too extreme, so there may not be much option there. Boris is a clown, and knows there is no alternative so gets away with all sorts. Another union is joining the strikes, with the chance it will spread to councils, schools etc to bring down the Government... not got enough money for a flight out of the UK, unless it's with Home Office Airlines to Rwanda, one way economy class Road Charging won't work as the tech is unreliable, some of these trackers over calculate so you could spend a fortune by mistake. My IT company had these type of trackers in our vans, they would turn everything from point to point without calculating streets, as if I had flown from Twickenham to Enfield by helicopter rather than driven, then calculated the rest as private mileage deduction . Everyone kicked off and within 6 months it was dropped Just sack the knife czars, highy paid consultants and drop the woke stuff and TfL would have more than enough money to cope with
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jun 14, 2022 23:50:17 GMT
It would push more people out of London, or to leave the country. A lot of people are doing the maths and when there are other countries they can make near the same money and pay less tax with similar comforts they jump ship. A lot of people would also cut back travelling for leisure etc. so those trips on buses and trains in the evenings or Friday/Saturday nights would take a hit. Doubt a increase in bus fares would push people out of London when fares are higher and wages are lower and there are less jobs. The country is in a mess and just can’t see any end to it all until we have a general election but then we don’t know who we will get! I cannot see a general election changing anything.
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