|
Post by greenboy on Oct 21, 2022 12:56:07 GMT
I think Jeremy Corbyn has more credibility than Keir Starmer. Nearly spat my lunch out all over the keyboard reading that. Starmer has infinitely more credibility among the general population than Corbyn did. Corbyn would have been a disaster for this country. Not as bad as Truss, but then again the public did not get a say on whether they wanted Truss and her daft neo-libertarian policies. Starmer would be a safe, if un-dynamic pair of hands. Perhaps exactly what we need after 6 years of non-stop unpredictability which has left our country as a laughing stock across the world. The only way for Tories to avoid an early general election is to bring back Boris Johnson with Sunak as chancellor. The two of them publicly burying the hatchet, uniting warring factions of the party, and seeing out the remaining two years delivering their manifesto promises. If Sunak or anyone else becomes PM and wants to rip up the Tory manifesto promises they were elected upon (levelling up anyone?), there has to be a general election to allow us to have our say on how we want our country to move forward and who is the best party to do that. Yes Jeremy Corbyn probably would have been a disaster and I certainly wasn't advocating voting for him but at least with Corbyn you knew what you were getting unlike with Keir Starmer who says one thing one minute and something else the next.
|
|
|
Post by YX10FFN on Oct 21, 2022 13:16:49 GMT
There's been a desire from the Conservatives to form a "unity candidate"- then the other side of the coin you have Rees Mogg tweeting #BorisorBust and several Conservative MPs threatening resignation of the whip if Boris returns. Plus there's the added headache of conducting an online election in a few days- very precarious situation with regards to cyber safety. So seems there is no easy way out for the Tories
|
|
|
Post by busman on Oct 21, 2022 13:22:45 GMT
Nearly spat my lunch out all over the keyboard reading that. Starmer has infinitely more credibility among the general population than Corbyn did. Corbyn would have been a disaster for this country. Not as bad as Truss, but then again the public did not get a say on whether they wanted Truss and her daft neo-libertarian policies. Starmer would be a safe, if un-dynamic pair of hands. Perhaps exactly what we need after 6 years of non-stop unpredictability which has left our country as a laughing stock across the world. The only way for Tories to avoid an early general election is to bring back Boris Johnson with Sunak as chancellor. The two of them publicly burying the hatchet, uniting warring factions of the party, and seeing out the remaining two years delivering their manifesto promises. If Sunak or anyone else becomes PM and wants to rip up the Tory manifesto promises they were elected upon (levelling up anyone?), there has to be a general election to allow us to have our say on how we want our country to move forward and who is the best party to do that. Re levelling up... don't you think Sunak would deliver on that? He is a northern MP. I said “If Sunak or anyone else becomes PM and wants to rip up the Tory manifesto promises they were elected upon…” It’s a question of what the next PM wants to do, rather than who the next PM is. If Sunak or whoever else wants to come in and continue to deliver on their promises to the electorate then there is no need for a general election imho. If the next PM wants to abandon those promises and implement their own ideas, we should have a general election. We cannot become a country where governments are elected but then abandon their commitments part way through. That creates uncertainty for our businesses and unfavourable conditions for investment.
|
|
|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 21, 2022 13:26:11 GMT
Nearly spat my lunch out all over the keyboard reading that. Starmer has infinitely more credibility among the general population than Corbyn did. Corbyn would have been a disaster for this country. Not as bad as Truss, but then again the public did not get a say on whether they wanted Truss and her daft neo-libertarian policies. Starmer would be a safe, if un-dynamic pair of hands. Perhaps exactly what we need after 6 years of non-stop unpredictability which has left our country as a laughing stock across the world. The only way for Tories to avoid an early general election is to bring back Boris Johnson with Sunak as chancellor. The two of them publicly burying the hatchet, uniting warring factions of the party, and seeing out the remaining two years delivering their manifesto promises. If Sunak or anyone else becomes PM and wants to rip up the Tory manifesto promises they were elected upon (levelling up anyone?), there has to be a general election to allow us to have our say on how we want our country to move forward and who is the best party to do that. Re levelling up... don't you think Sunak would deliver on that? He is a northern MP. Obvious issue at the moment is there's no money for it, Sunak knows it and his plan of austerity is another way of saying Levelling up won't happen until the finances are right.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Oct 21, 2022 14:03:22 GMT
Nearly spat my lunch out all over the keyboard reading that. Starmer has infinitely more credibility among the general population than Corbyn did. Corbyn would have been a disaster for this country. Not as bad as Truss, but then again the public did not get a say on whether they wanted Truss and her daft neo-libertarian policies. Starmer would be a safe, if un-dynamic pair of hands. Perhaps exactly what we need after 6 years of non-stop unpredictability which has left our country as a laughing stock across the world. The only way for Tories to avoid an early general election is to bring back Boris Johnson with Sunak as chancellor. The two of them publicly burying the hatchet, uniting warring factions of the party, and seeing out the remaining two years delivering their manifesto promises. If Sunak or anyone else becomes PM and wants to rip up the Tory manifesto promises they were elected upon (levelling up anyone?), there has to be a general election to allow us to have our say on how we want our country to move forward and who is the best party to do that. Re levelling up... don't you think Sunak would deliver on that? He is a northern MP. Levelling up is a cover, it's not actually a real thing and was designed to wedge the nonsensical north vs south divide wider and to pretend they care about the red wall votes they gained - they were never going to level anything up. Real levelling up is not based on geography or petty north vs south divides but about reducing the inequality gap.
|
|
|
Post by busman on Oct 21, 2022 14:15:15 GMT
Nearly spat my lunch out all over the keyboard reading that. Starmer has infinitely more credibility among the general population than Corbyn did. Corbyn would have been a disaster for this country. Not as bad as Truss, but then again the public did not get a say on whether they wanted Truss and her daft neo-libertarian policies. Starmer would be a safe, if un-dynamic pair of hands. Perhaps exactly what we need after 6 years of non-stop unpredictability which has left our country as a laughing stock across the world. The only way for Tories to avoid an early general election is to bring back Boris Johnson with Sunak as chancellor. The two of them publicly burying the hatchet, uniting warring factions of the party, and seeing out the remaining two years delivering their manifesto promises. If Sunak or anyone else becomes PM and wants to rip up the Tory manifesto promises they were elected upon (levelling up anyone?), there has to be a general election to allow us to have our say on how we want our country to move forward and who is the best party to do that. Yes Jeremy Corbyn probably would have been a disaster and I certainly wasn't advocating voting for him but at least with Corbyn you knew what you were getting unlike with Keir Starmer who says one thing one minute and something else the next. I think you’re confusing him for Liz Truss! Starmer has been slow and cautious, but fairly consistent in what he says. Part of me hopes he’s keeping something in the tank because he has to slowly erode the influence of the hard-left elements of the party before going full on Tony Blair mode, but I think it’s actually his modus operandi. In fairness to them, Starmer and the opposition have been forcing government u-turns on policy for a long time now. In other words the government has decided to do one thing, Labour has suggested an alternative idea…which the government subsequently comes around to after their initial plan either doesn’t stand up to scrutiny or crashes when it meets reality. Johnson was skilled at riding these u-turns, but Truss didn’t have the political nouse. She took Labour’s commitment to cap energy cost per unit for 6 months vs. her unfunded policy to cap them for 2 years and beat Starmer around the head with it consistently. A few weeks later, Tories do a u-turn and reduce the freeze to 6 months. Time will tell if the Tories will now implement some kind of higher windfall tax on energy companies in line with what Labour have suggested.
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Oct 21, 2022 14:22:31 GMT
Yes Jeremy Corbyn probably would have been a disaster and I certainly wasn't advocating voting for him but at least with Corbyn you knew what you were getting unlike with Keir Starmer who says one thing one minute and something else the next. I think you’re confusing him for Liz Truss! Starmer has been slow and cautious, but fairly consistent in what he says. Part of me hopes he’s keeping something in the tank because he has to slowly erode the influence of the hard-left elements of the party before going full on Tony Blair mode, but I think it’s actually his modus operandi. In fairness to them, Starmer and the opposition have been forcing government u-turns on policy for a long time now. In other words the government has decided to do one thing, Labour has suggested an alternative idea…which the government subsequently comes around to after their initial plan either doesn’t stand up to scrutiny or crashes when it meets reality. Johnson was skilled at riding these u-turns, but Truss didn’t have the political nouse. She took Labour’s commitment to cap energy cost per unit for 6 months vs. her unfunded policy to cap them for 2 years and beat Starmer around the head with it consistently. A few weeks later, Tories do a u-turn and reduce the freeze to 6 months. Time will tell if the Tories will now implement some kind of higher windfall tax on energy companies in line with what Labour have suggested. No I'm definitely not although I wouldn't trust either of them to run the country.
|
|
|
Post by SILENCED on Oct 21, 2022 14:41:24 GMT
Yes Jeremy Corbyn probably would have been a disaster and I certainly wasn't advocating voting for him but at least with Corbyn you knew what you were getting unlike with Keir Starmer who says one thing one minute and something else the next. I think you’re confusing him for Liz Truss! Starmer has been slow and cautious, but fairly consistent in what he says. Part of me hopes he’s keeping something in the tank because he has to slowly erode the influence of the hard-left elements of the party before going full on Tony Blair mode, but I think it’s actually his modus operandi. In fairness to them, Starmer and the opposition have been forcing government u-turns on policy for a long time now. In other words the government has decided to do one thing, Labour has suggested an alternative idea…which the government subsequently comes around to after their initial plan either doesn’t stand up to scrutiny or crashes when it meets reality. Johnson was skilled at riding these u-turns, but Truss didn’t have the political nouse. She took Labour’s commitment to cap energy cost per unit for 6 months vs. her unfunded policy to cap them for 2 years and beat Starmer around the head with it consistently. A few weeks later, Tories do a u-turn and reduce the freeze to 6 months. Time will tell if the Tories will now implement some kind of higher windfall tax on energy companies in line with what Labour have suggested. What would be better? A energy company windfall tax, or getting them to invest a similar amount so that the UK can become self-sufficient in energy production?
|
|
|
Post by wirewiper on Oct 21, 2022 15:02:26 GMT
I think you’re confusing him for Liz Truss! Starmer has been slow and cautious, but fairly consistent in what he says. Part of me hopes he’s keeping something in the tank because he has to slowly erode the influence of the hard-left elements of the party before going full on Tony Blair mode, but I think it’s actually his modus operandi. In fairness to them, Starmer and the opposition have been forcing government u-turns on policy for a long time now. In other words the government has decided to do one thing, Labour has suggested an alternative idea…which the government subsequently comes around to after their initial plan either doesn’t stand up to scrutiny or crashes when it meets reality. Johnson was skilled at riding these u-turns, but Truss didn’t have the political nouse. She took Labour’s commitment to cap energy cost per unit for 6 months vs. her unfunded policy to cap them for 2 years and beat Starmer around the head with it consistently. A few weeks later, Tories do a u-turn and reduce the freeze to 6 months. Time will tell if the Tories will now implement some kind of higher windfall tax on energy companies in line with what Labour have suggested. What would be better? A energy company windfall tax, or getting them to invest a similar amount so that the UK can become self-sufficient in energy production? A windfall tax would ensure the money came into the Government. It could be used both to alleviate the immediate cost of living crisis with targeted support to people in lower incomes, and to invest in domestic energy production (I would put an emphasis on renewables), as well as technology to increase energy efficiency including measures such as insulating homes.
|
|
|
Post by southlondon413 on Oct 21, 2022 15:18:13 GMT
What would be better? A energy company windfall tax, or getting them to invest a similar amount so that the UK can become self-sufficient in energy production? A windfall tax would ensure the money came into the Government. It could be used both to alleviate the immediate cost of living crisis with targeted support to people in lower incomes, and to invest in domestic energy production (I would put an emphasis on renewables), as well as technology to increase energy efficiency including measures such as insulating homes. There are already windfall taxes in place. Tax on energy producers was already raised to 25% and was raised to 65% on North Sea producers back in May. That £170 billion in excess profits that so many keep quoting came from a Bloomberg article with no input from the treasury, who have said it is an incorrect estimate. Realistically the energy cap was the most resourceful method to ensure bills were still manageable.
|
|
|
Post by wirewiper on Oct 21, 2022 15:29:51 GMT
Kier Starmer is not weak. Liz Truss was weak. She advocated an extreme libertarianism that caused the world's markets to take fright and damaged the UK's economy and world standing even further. Don't confuse the lack of an outgoing personality with weakness. Kier Starmer and his team have been quietly working in the background and the business community by and large now trusts Labour as "the party of business". Contrast that with the recklessness of the Conservatives, who have shown in their past two leaders that they are prepared to favour ideology over practical policy that supports businesses, the economy and society in general. Remember that Johnson is reputed to have said "F*** business" in response to disquiet about his Brexit strategy. One of Labour's policies that really resonates with me is that Social Care is to be given the same status as healthcare, with improved conditions and the same opportunities for career development and progression. Having an elderly mother who has recently been hospitalised and is now receiving social care, for that reason alone the next Labour government cannot come soon enough for me. I would expect huge austerity measure for the next government, who ever is in charge. So to make this happen they will have to bring in massive taxation increases for the middle and higher earners, which would go down like a pair of cement shoes on water, or a huge sweeping rebuild of the NHS or increased borrowing. It simply won’t happen for years. A lot of labour’s policies seem fine but would require large scale reforms. I personally would like to seem policies which address rebalancing the system to offer more support to the middle earner rather than policies that only benefit low income/benefit workers and the extreme wealth. For too long our system has penalised the middle earner whilst suppressing everyone else. Rather than austerity and a vain hope that trickle-down economics will eventually kick in somewhere down the line, the UK needs a step change in public investment. It also needs to change its financial and ownership systems to encourage the private companies that innovate and invest. The tax system, especially where residential and commercial property is concerned, needs a total overhaul - council tax is still based on 1991 property valuations which in many cases are now hopelessly out of date. To increase exports, the UK should be fully aligned with our biggest trading partner, the European Union, which means rejoining the single market and customs union - that would be perfectly possible to do whilst staying out of the European Union.
|
|
|
Post by northlondon83 on Oct 21, 2022 16:41:11 GMT
|
|
|
Post by wirewiper on Oct 21, 2022 16:51:24 GMT
The fact that some Tory MPs are looking no further than Johnson to replace Liz Truss just shows how morally bankrupt the party now is. Have they already forgotten his appalling record in office? The opposition parties would have a field day.
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Oct 21, 2022 17:01:01 GMT
The fact that some Tory MPs are looking no further than Johnson to replace Liz Truss just shows how morally bankrupt the party now is. Have they already forgotten his appalling record in office? The opposition parties would have a field day. If his record in office was appalling then they would be looking elsewhere and the opposition parties might be better looking at their own shortcomings.
|
|
|
Post by rif153 on Oct 21, 2022 17:36:28 GMT
Re levelling up... don't you think Sunak would deliver on that? He is a northern MP. Levelling up is a cover, it's not actually a real thing and was designed to wedge the nonsensical north vs south divide wider and to pretend they care about the red wall votes they gained - they were never going to level anything up. Real levelling up is not based on geography or petty north vs south divides but about reducing the inequality gap. Tories are very good at using tokenistic guises to make it look like they're doing something - we've seen a bit of money chucked at a few northern towns (which unsurprisingly include some of the red wall seats they've won) but very little meaningful change just spin.
|
|