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Post by northlondon83 on Mar 18, 2023 17:16:28 GMT
Think it would probably be worse should SNP retain seats, it's clear Labour now is making government whether they gain any seats in Scotland or not. Should SNP continue to dominate Scotland then the chances of the Tories making opposition diminishes instead. While the Tories are a vile party from the top to the bottom, it’s important that they do make opposition in order to keep Labour in check. An SNP in opposition would just be saying yes to anything Labour does, and screaming for Scottish independence every few days. There'd be no accountability. It’s clear right now, but in politics 18 months is a lifetime and lot can happen between now and the next election. It was only 18 months again that Labour were completely unelectable, so your statement seems a little bold and premature. But Labour are leading in the polls and by a country mile, and have so since Boris's downfall! I don't think that the Tories have a fighting chance in the next election. The damage done by Partygate for the Tories is irreversible in the short term. Whilst the rich will continue to vote Tory, who aren't affected by their anti poor people agenda, the majority of the country aren't rich and have been affected by the damages done by Covid and the Cost of Living crisis. Some people have unfortunately lost loved ones to Covid, whilst Boris and his chums thought it was ok to party and break the rules. People struggle to make enough money to put food on the table. Voting Labour won't necessarily make things better but I think a lot of people will see it as a change worth making. But as you said 18 months is a lifetime in politics and the one thing that favours the Tories' chances is the time until the next election. If the election was within the next few months, or even taken place in the past few months, following on from Liz Truss's resignation then the Tories would have been wiped out. But now they just have to hope that Rishi Sunak is a credible person to take the country forward and gives them a fighting chance against Labour
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Post by southlondon413 on Mar 18, 2023 17:50:06 GMT
It’s clear right now, but in politics 18 months is a lifetime and lot can happen between now and the next election. It was only 18 months again that Labour were completely unelectable, so your statement seems a little bold and premature. But Labour are leading in the polls and by a country mile, and have so since Boris's downfall! I don't think that the Tories have a fighting chance in the next election. The damage done by Partygate for the Tories is irreversible in the short term. Whilst the rich will continue to vote Tory, who aren't affected by their anti poor people agenda, the majority of the country aren't rich and have been affected by the damages done by Covid and the Cost of Living crisis. Some people have unfortunately lost loved ones to Covid, whilst Boris and his chums thought it was ok to party and break the rules. People struggle to make enough money to put food on the table. Voting Labour won't necessarily make things better but I think a lot of people will see it as a change worth making. But as you said 18 months is a lifetime in politics and the one thing that favours the Tories' chances is the time until the next election. If the election was within the next few months, or even taken place in the past few months, following on from Liz Truss's resignation then the Tories would have been wiped out. But now they just have to hope that Rishi Sunak is a credible person to take the country forward and gives them a fighting chance against Labour People have short memories and there will be new scandals affecting both sides. The biggest threat to Labour will be underestimating the hidden majority who won’t necessarily buy into Labours wokeness and Kier Starmers inability to give consistency in his opinions.
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Post by ilovelondonbuses on Mar 18, 2023 17:59:21 GMT
But Labour are leading in the polls and by a country mile, and have so since Boris's downfall! I don't think that the Tories have a fighting chance in the next election. The damage done by Partygate for the Tories is irreversible in the short term. Whilst the rich will continue to vote Tory, who aren't affected by their anti poor people agenda, the majority of the country aren't rich and have been affected by the damages done by Covid and the Cost of Living crisis. Some people have unfortunately lost loved ones to Covid, whilst Boris and his chums thought it was ok to party and break the rules. People struggle to make enough money to put food on the table. Voting Labour won't necessarily make things better but I think a lot of people will see it as a change worth making. But as you said 18 months is a lifetime in politics and the one thing that favours the Tories' chances is the time until the next election. If the election was within the next few months, or even taken place in the past few months, following on from Liz Truss's resignation then the Tories would have been wiped out. But now they just have to hope that Rishi Sunak is a credible person to take the country forward and gives them a fighting chance against Labour People have short memories and there will be new scandals affecting both sides. The biggest threat to Labour will be underestimating the hidden majority who won’t necessarily buy into Labours wokeness and Kier Starmers inability to give consistency in his opinions. I don’t dabble into politics on here as this is a bus forum after all but what is your definition of the word “woke” and why do you seem so against it? Also interested to find out where this “hidden majority” who are pleased on how the Tories have been running the country for the past 13 years. I’m not saying Labour have the election in the bag, they still have a lot of work to do but they have a very strong chance.
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Post by wirewiper on Mar 18, 2023 18:18:42 GMT
People have short memories and there will be new scandals affecting both sides. The biggest threat to Labour will be underestimating the hidden majority who won’t necessarily buy into Labours wokeness and Kier Starmers inability to give consistency in his opinions. I don’t dabble into politics on here as this is a bus forum after all but what is your definition of the word “woke” and why you do seem so against it? Also interested to find out where this “hidden majority” who are pleased on how the Tories have been running the country for the past 13 years. I’m not saying Labour have the election in the bag, they still have a lot of work to do but they have a very strong chance. Woke originally meant simply "alert to racial prejudice and discrimination" and was a variation on woken or awake. In the 2010s it started to be used more widely to show a wider awareness of other social inequalities such as sexism, and for ideas such as identity politics and social justice. Such ideas tend not to sit well with the right and the word has become weaponised.
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Post by southlondon413 on Mar 18, 2023 18:28:49 GMT
People have short memories and there will be new scandals affecting both sides. The biggest threat to Labour will be underestimating the hidden majority who won’t necessarily buy into Labours wokeness and Kier Starmers inability to give consistency in his opinions. I don’t dabble into politics on here as this is a bus forum after all but what is your definition of the word “woke” and why you do seem so against it? Also interested to find out where this “hidden majority” who are pleased on how the Tories have been running the country for the past 13 years. I’m not saying Labour have the election in the bag, they still have a lot of work to do but they have a very strong chance. By definition to be woke is to be “aware, especially of social problems such as racism and inequality.” Now I have never been against this idea and anyone who ever suggests otherwise is lying. However there is an issue when this wokeism leads to the over exaggeration of issues like trans rights, racism and immigration. Again I agree with trans rights after all it is a difficult journey to a happy ending, I agree that racism is still a problem in the UK and I agree that we should have solid immigration policies that allow people should to come here through legal channels whilst simultaneously deterring illegal movements. Relating it back to politics it seems Labour are pushing these ideals to the extreme whilst simultaneously trying to please every single subset of society and it just isn’t possible to do. It’s a very poorly thought out strategy and I don’t see it playing well after they are elected as there is potential to ignore the majority who will vote Labour but only because they can’t vote for anyone else. As for the hidden majority they don’t have to agree with the conservatives, they just don’t have to agree with any number of the policies it seems Labour would be intent on voting for. If they then don’t vote Tory, they may not vote at all. So yes, Labour may win an election but it could be on severely reduced voter numbers.
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Post by ilovelondonbuses on Mar 18, 2023 18:30:35 GMT
I don’t dabble into politics on here as this is a bus forum after all but what is your definition of the word “woke” and why you do seem so against it? Also interested to find out where this “hidden majority” who are pleased on how the Tories have been running the country for the past 13 years. I’m not saying Labour have the election in the bag, they still have a lot of work to do but they have a very strong chance. Woke originally meant simply "alert to racial prejudice and discrimination" and was a variation on woken or awake. In the 2010s it started to be used more widely to show a wider awareness of other social inequalities such as sexism, and for ideas such as identity politics and social justice. Such ideas tend not to sit well with the right and the word has become weaponised. That’s the definition of woke that I knew and has stuck with me. I cannot understand why any rational people would be actively “anti-woke” in this day and age. The whole anti-woke agenda has become a collective attack on minorities and on people who are different. What’s so wrong in pursuing progressive policies that protect and improve the lives of minorities?
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Post by southlondon413 on Mar 18, 2023 18:50:29 GMT
Woke originally meant simply "alert to racial prejudice and discrimination" and was a variation on woken or awake. In the 2010s it started to be used more widely to show a wider awareness of other social inequalities such as sexism, and for ideas such as identity politics and social justice. Such ideas tend not to sit well with the right and the word has become weaponised. That’s the definition of woke that I knew and has stuck with me. I cannot understand why any rational people would be actively “anti-woke” in this day and age. The whole anti-woke agenda has become a collective attack on minorities and on people who are different. What’s so wrong in pursuing progressive policies that protect and improve the lives of minorities? It’s a much more nuanced issue than presented. You can be both supportive of minorities but don’t need to have it constantly being part and parcel of modern life. I’m seen as a minority as being a card carrying member of the alphabet mafia and a mixed race heritage person, don’t ever refer to me as BAME, I am acutely aware of issues but I don’t need to be told that I’m worse off because of my skin colour, I don’t need someone to take a knee, I don’t need affirmative action hiring and I don’t need people celebrating shows like Heartstopper, which was frankly awful. I severely dislike Pride and Black History Month as both just feel like extreme virtue signalling. We can just normalise these things by allowing them to become included in every day life.
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Post by SILENCED on Mar 18, 2023 18:51:22 GMT
Woke originally meant simply "alert to racial prejudice and discrimination" and was a variation on woken or awake. In the 2010s it started to be used more widely to show a wider awareness of other social inequalities such as sexism, and for ideas such as identity politics and social justice. Such ideas tend not to sit well with the right and the word has become weaponised. That’s the definition of woke that I knew and has stuck with me. I cannot understand why any rational people would be actively “anti-woke” in this day and age. The whole anti-woke agenda has become a collective attack on minorities and on people who are different. What’s so wrong in pursuing progressive policies that protect and improve the lives of minorities? Woke is basically people who look to be offended by the slightest things and shout right wing extremist at anyone that disagrees with them. These the the kind of people whose actions result in nothing being done in this country. Do something, they get offended. Result, the country continually held back by these types.
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Post by greenboy on Mar 18, 2023 18:53:04 GMT
That’s the definition of woke that I knew and has stuck with me. I cannot understand why any rational people would be actively “anti-woke” in this day and age. The whole anti-woke agenda has become a collective attack on minorities and on people who are different. What’s so wrong in pursuing progressive policies that protect and improve the lives of minorities? Woke is basically people who look to be offended by the slightest things and shout right wing extremist at anyone that disagrees with them. These the the kind of people whose actions result in nothing being done in this country. Do something, they get offended. Result, the country continually held back by these types. Yes I think that's how most people would define woke.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Mar 20, 2023 10:52:27 GMT
It’s clear right now, but in politics 18 months is a lifetime and lot can happen between now and the next election. It was only 18 months again that Labour were completely unelectable, so your statement seems a little bold and premature. But Labour are leading in the polls and by a country mile, and have so since Boris's downfall! I don't think that the Tories have a fighting chance in the next election. The damage done by Partygate for the Tories is irreversible in the short term. Whilst the rich will continue to vote Tory, who aren't affected by their anti poor people agenda, the majority of the country aren't rich and have been affected by the damages done by Covid and the Cost of Living crisis. Some people have unfortunately lost loved ones to Covid, whilst Boris and his chums thought it was ok to party and break the rules. People struggle to make enough money to put food on the table. Voting Labour won't necessarily make things better but I think a lot of people will see it as a change worth making. But as you said 18 months is a lifetime in politics and the one thing that favours the Tories' chances is the time until the next election. If the election was within the next few months, or even taken place in the past few months, following on from Liz Truss's resignation then the Tories would have been wiped out. But now they just have to hope that Rishi Sunak is a credible person to take the country forward and gives them a fighting chance against Labour I have said to you before, do NOT trust the polls, they are no longer a true credible reflection of how people vote. Their collection methods are outdated and seems to have assume that everyone is online and uses a smartphone and always 'downloads the app' It really makes me laugh when people like yourself really think the champagne socialist Labour party is the party of the poor when they are a million miles from it. The only person who was going to attempt to put the party on a course they were years ago was Corbyn and look how that went with the public, despite many press etc making out he was the messiah. The biggest mistake the Conservatives made was to go for Liz Truss, Sunak was clearly a much better option but they went for Truss because I feel they think Sunak's face would not stand up well with most voters.
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Post by wirewiper on Mar 20, 2023 12:12:36 GMT
But Labour are leading in the polls and by a country mile, and have so since Boris's downfall! I don't think that the Tories have a fighting chance in the next election. The damage done by Partygate for the Tories is irreversible in the short term. Whilst the rich will continue to vote Tory, who aren't affected by their anti poor people agenda, the majority of the country aren't rich and have been affected by the damages done by Covid and the Cost of Living crisis. Some people have unfortunately lost loved ones to Covid, whilst Boris and his chums thought it was ok to party and break the rules. People struggle to make enough money to put food on the table. Voting Labour won't necessarily make things better but I think a lot of people will see it as a change worth making. But as you said 18 months is a lifetime in politics and the one thing that favours the Tories' chances is the time until the next election. If the election was within the next few months, or even taken place in the past few months, following on from Liz Truss's resignation then the Tories would have been wiped out. But now they just have to hope that Rishi Sunak is a credible person to take the country forward and gives them a fighting chance against Labour I have said to you before, do NOT trust the polls, they are no longer a true credible reflection of how people vote. Their collection methods are outdated and seems to have assume that everyone is online and uses a smartphone and always 'downloads the app' It really makes me laugh when people like yourself really think the champagne socialist Labour party is the party of the poor when they are a million miles from it. The only person who was going to attempt to put the party on a course they were years ago was Corbyn and look how that went with the public, despite many press etc making out he was the messiah. The biggest mistake the Conservatives made was to go for Liz Truss, Sunak was clearly a much better option but they went for Truss because I feel they think Sunak's face would not stand up well with most voters. All polls though put the Labour Party on track for an outright victory at the next election, the only disagreement being the size of the victory. They can't all be wrong. A few weeks ago, the outcome of one poll would have been a Labour landslide with the official opposition being the SNP, and the Conservatives trailing in fourth behind the LibDems in terms of seats won. That was unlikely to happen in an actual election, and certainly won't now after Sturgeon's resignation. However the latest poll for the New Statesman has the Conservatives losing over 200 seats with Labour gaining around the same number, which would give them a huge majority. When the election comes, I expect the result to be better than predicted for the LibDems (partly due to some tactical voting in South West England) although Labour will make some gains in Scotland at the expense of the SNP. But there would have to be a calamitous disaster within the Labour party for them not to secure an outright majority at the next election.
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Post by northlondon83 on Mar 20, 2023 15:23:30 GMT
But Labour are leading in the polls and by a country mile, and have so since Boris's downfall! I don't think that the Tories have a fighting chance in the next election. The damage done by Partygate for the Tories is irreversible in the short term. Whilst the rich will continue to vote Tory, who aren't affected by their anti poor people agenda, the majority of the country aren't rich and have been affected by the damages done by Covid and the Cost of Living crisis. Some people have unfortunately lost loved ones to Covid, whilst Boris and his chums thought it was ok to party and break the rules. People struggle to make enough money to put food on the table. Voting Labour won't necessarily make things better but I think a lot of people will see it as a change worth making. But as you said 18 months is a lifetime in politics and the one thing that favours the Tories' chances is the time until the next election. If the election was within the next few months, or even taken place in the past few months, following on from Liz Truss's resignation then the Tories would have been wiped out. But now they just have to hope that Rishi Sunak is a credible person to take the country forward and gives them a fighting chance against Labour I have said to you before, do NOT trust the polls, they are no longer a true credible reflection of how people vote. Their collection methods are outdated and seems to have assume that everyone is online and uses a smartphone and always 'downloads the app' It really makes me laugh when people like yourself really think the champagne socialist Labour party is the party of the poor when they are a million miles from it. The only person who was going to attempt to put the party on a course they were years ago was Corbyn and look how that went with the public, despite many press etc making out he was the messiah. The biggest mistake the Conservatives made was to go for Liz Truss, Sunak was clearly a much better option but they went for Truss because I feel they think Sunak's face would not stand up well with most voters. If a general election was held now, I still think Labour would win. Not by a huge majority, but still more seats than the Tories, possibly a majority government but possibly a minority one too. But Labour aren't great and I think that Keir Starmer is about as great as Rishi so it's a case of choosing between two poor candidates. As for everyone else, there's no point voting for them because it will lead to a hung parliament. But as the election is nearly 2 years away, things could change in favour of the Tories
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Post by wirewiper on Mar 20, 2023 17:38:23 GMT
I have said to you before, do NOT trust the polls, they are no longer a true credible reflection of how people vote. Their collection methods are outdated and seems to have assume that everyone is online and uses a smartphone and always 'downloads the app' It really makes me laugh when people like yourself really think the champagne socialist Labour party is the party of the poor when they are a million miles from it. The only person who was going to attempt to put the party on a course they were years ago was Corbyn and look how that went with the public, despite many press etc making out he was the messiah. The biggest mistake the Conservatives made was to go for Liz Truss, Sunak was clearly a much better option but they went for Truss because I feel they think Sunak's face would not stand up well with most voters. If a general election was held now, I still think Labour would win. Not by a huge majority, but still more seats than the Tories, possibly a majority government but possibly a minority one too. But Labour aren't great and I think that Keir Starmer is about as great as Rishi so it's a case of choosing between two poor candidates. As for everyone else, there's no point voting for them because it will lead to a hung parliament. But as the election is nearly 2 years away, things could change in favour of the Tories It's not just about the figureheads though. We are voting for a Government not just a party leader, and Starmer has a far steadier and more competent team alongside him. The Conservatives have their 13 years of power on record, many are deeply dissatisfied with what they have witnessed and are willing to give Starmer's Labour a chance. The Conservatives are so riven with infighting now that I cannot see them turning things round in the remaining time they have left.
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Post by WH241 on Mar 20, 2023 17:49:18 GMT
I have said to you before, do NOT trust the polls, they are no longer a true credible reflection of how people vote. Their collection methods are outdated and seems to have assume that everyone is online and uses a smartphone and always 'downloads the app' It really makes me laugh when people like yourself really think the champagne socialist Labour party is the party of the poor when they are a million miles from it. The only person who was going to attempt to put the party on a course they were years ago was Corbyn and look how that went with the public, despite many press etc making out he was the messiah. The biggest mistake the Conservatives made was to go for Liz Truss, Sunak was clearly a much better option but they went for Truss because I feel they think Sunak's face would not stand up well with most voters. If a general election was held now, I still think Labour would win. Not by a huge majority, but still more seats than the Tories, possibly a majority government but possibly a minority one too. But Labour aren't great and I think that Keir Starmer is about as great as Rishi so it's a case of choosing between two poor candidates. As for everyone else, there's no point voting for them because it will lead to a hung parliament. But as the election is nearly 2 years away, things could change in favour of the ToriesI read the last bit a few times in the hope it was being sarcastic of humorous. The Tories are finished and hanging on for dear life until the next election.
Think the last time I voted Labour was my first vote in 1997 and will likely vote for them this time! The conservative will likely be out of power for many years
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Post by northlondon83 on Mar 20, 2023 18:41:20 GMT
If a general election was held now, I still think Labour would win. Not by a huge majority, but still more seats than the Tories, possibly a majority government but possibly a minority one too. But Labour aren't great and I think that Keir Starmer is about as great as Rishi so it's a case of choosing between two poor candidates. As for everyone else, there's no point voting for them because it will lead to a hung parliament. But as the election is nearly 2 years away, things could change in favour of the ToriesI read the last bit a few times in the hope it was being sarcastic of humorous. The Tories are finished and hanging on for dear life until the next election.
Think the last time I voted Labour was my first vote in 1997 and will likely vote for them this time! The conservative will likely be out of power for many years
I believe there is still a chance for Rishi to turn things around. If inflation continues to fall, cost of living becomes a less significant issue by end of 2024 the Tories could possibly win but a minority government. Boris already shot the party in the foot by having all those ridiculous parties then denying that they broke the rules. Less Trust was an embarrassment and the Tories voting for her proved to be a mistake that, if she didn't resign, would cost the country dearly. Rishi Sunak is slightly better but there's still too much infighting which could damage the party's chances. Then there's Sturgeons departure which could possibly benefit the Labour party. It's still a case of possibly the direst two candidates (Starmer and Sunak) since before Brexit but there's things that could sway in either party's direction
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